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Gamergate 2.0 
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Graaf Statler wrote:
Yesterday when I booted Dysk's Discord because of the constant crashing of topics by Abd Lomax and the many, may gamers and goofy wikipedia mods who Dysk has given sysop rights too. And had a quick look at the modern games there. (it's a gamers thing.) And yes, I saw and understand the gender confusing created there now.


Okay. what actually happened? Graaf was demanding that I answer questions that I had already answered, often just with "you have not answered the question" or the like. This is troll behavior, though it could also represent a deep disorder.

I actually put Graaf on Mute, because nothing was working to get through to him.

Graaf was also attacking a woman often associated with Dysk, demanding to know her age. Graaf claimed that Dysk and this woman, these "kids", were trolling me, pretending to agree with or to support me, all as a joke.

The woman had set server permissions so that major participants were all Moderators, so we could not act on each other, and that included Graaf.

Dysk, who owns the server, created a role, OP, giving it administrative permissions, and assigned two users to this role, being me and the woman. At 5:55 PM GMT-4, 2019/08/19, the woman removed Graaf's Mod privilege, replacing it with Level 1 access, but then any Mod could ban. Another user, also a Mod, repeatedly warned Graaf to stop flooding the server with complaints. He continued, so he was banned at 6:40 GMT-4. At 6:59 PM GMT-4, Graaf left the server.

So he did not leave because of what he claims above. He was banned for his behavior.

I was rummaging around Wikipediocracy and noticed this thread: Statler vs. Versieck (split from Lomax v. WMF thread)
That showed a thread on the same Discord server. In fact, I think I remember that thread. It all seemed mysterious at the time. Why was Statler attacking Bart Versiek? I never got a straight story out of Graaf. But what appears is that Graaf attacks people who have been his friends, people who appeared to support him and whom he appeared to support.

I acknowledge extensive support from Graaf. He can be kind and thoughtful. However, as I wrote on Reddit, something is broken. reddit: cogent_wikipedia_criticism_sites

Vigilant saw that comment and translated it to make it mean what it did not mean. Many people have "something broken" that I would not call "insane," even though most of us are, much of the time, insane in some sense or other, if we are honest and have self-knowledge. Vigilant, however, is vicious, full of hatred and contempt, and he's been that way for many years. Something is broken in Graaf's world, and I don't know what it is, but it makes him paranoid and often unintelligible. I encouraged him to spend more time in his garden, and as well, in communion with "the monk," a figure he told me about, who was always deep and wise. I think Graaf forgot the monk, obsessed with "gamers" and other stories.

What happened on the Discord server had nothing to do with gamers. As well, to my knowledge, there are no Wikipedia administrators with Mod privileges on the server. (They would be welcome, it's an eclectic community, and Graaf was also very welcome, even specially accommodated, but he totally trashed it.) His ban from the server was unanimously supported, no objections. He'd probably be welcomed back, but I'd not recommend it for him. Wikipedia or related involvement is clearly toxic for him, unless and until he deals with what is underneath that paranoia.


Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:25 pm
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Leave the crap Abd. She posted a picture of a young person, I said she must now been 25 seen things on the picture, you was shitting topics by not answering nd changing the subject and the sysop is a autistic wikiidiot. And Dusk is a troll. End of discussion, Abd.

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Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:16 pm
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Abd wrote:
Okay. what actually happened?
I posted what actually happened. 'Nuff said.


Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:47 pm
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And I didn't even read it because I am total uninterested in a woman who is babbling in some baby gamers English and appears to be a grown up woman (sic). Or your opinion about this in general. Just like I am not interested in you internet fights with some English persons, because in my opinion you generate most of the problems yourself, but that just....my opinion man.
Or why you spent the last years of your life on some trail with a charity organisation because in my opnion such thing only gave stress and migraine.. But, that are all choices you make yourself bro. Just like I don't understand Dysk is spoiling his talent on this wikishit of wikishit. But if he does, up to him, for me it is all fine.

The only thing I don't understand why you are posting your little gamers world zorro here, because In am pretty sure neither the readers here nor participant are interested in this Discord shit. It's here a critical forum, not a WO or gamers playground you know.

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Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:25 pm
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Graaf Statler wrote:
I'm am pretty sure neither the readers here nor participants are interested in this Discord shit.

What is this Discord stuff? I checked it out a while ago and it seemed like a bunch of wiki-obsessives and spergs were just wasting their lives talking shite.

What's the point of it all?

PS. I read on WPO that Kumioko set up that Wiki Discord, but then handed it over to a Wikipedian. You'd do well to avoid these hardcore obsessives.


Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:37 pm
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It was a complete Déjà vu. Exactly the same kind of lunatics I had left behind on the Dutch wiki products where gathered there. Even including a original wiki sysop who was linking to all kind of wikishit pages and wanted to stop in any way the discussion in in which I explained Abd was constant crashing topics with cheap forum tricks. Abd claimed all the time something what was simple not true, and when you confronted him or he did ignore it, or changed the subject and fucked up the complete topic in that way. Time after time.

Old wiki wiki times are returning there, including giving the biggest complete fucking sperg sysop rights. By the way, does there exist also total Discord Bans and can I get one please? And will Abd be so kind to explane why he was coming in here to shit the place with all kind of to hidden WO bullshit what even was too embarrassing for WO and was hidden by uncle Jake in the cellar?

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Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:47 pm
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Anyone wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote:
I'm am pretty sure neither the readers here nor participants are interested in this Discord shit.

What is this Discord stuff? I checked it out a while ago and it seemed like a bunch of wiki-obsessives and spergs were just wasting their lives talking shite.

What's the point of it all?

PS. I read on WPO that Kumioko set up that Wiki Discord, but then handed it over to a Wikipedian. You'd do well to avoid these hardcore obsessives.

Anyone, you are as clueless as we would expect anyone to be. Kumioko did set up a discord server, but that's not the one Statler wrote about. Discord is software. It's a chat application and is very much like most such. I.e., full of "talking shite." But not all discords are like that, and the Wikipediocracy server was not like that, or, more accurately, "shit" was confined to specific channels. Graaf had his own channel, "amsterdam," about his bicycle theft meme.

It's the only Discord server I'm willing to participate in. Some very bright people, and actually a friendly place. Graaf made it very much not-friendly, attacking, by the end, about everyone in sight, and when asked to stop, ranting about censorship and refusing to be "silenced," or whatever word he used. I've been on-line, active, since the 1980s, and there are many who confuse freedom of speech with license to say whatever they want, whenever and wherever they want.

The bit of conversation quoted on Wikipediocracy from the server, cited above, showed Graaf attacking Bart Versieck, for no apparent reason, just a series of "fuck you"s. Bart was banned, because at that point the server owners wanted Graaf to feel welcome. It was all Graaf. He has just claimed that I "know full well" about Bart. I don't. I really have almost no clue who he is. Graaf rants and raves and assumes that others understand him, and if they don't respond, he claims it's because they are hiding something. That is paranoia. Or he is purely a troll. Frankly, I've seen enough of the other side of him to think it is paranoia, not trolling.

The *effect* is trolling.

Something is broken. Graaf could recover, but he's going to need to become rigorously and completely honest and clear about his own process, how he interprets reality. Or he will die this way. I asked him "What does the monk say," because he has a spirit guide (or equivalent). Graaf stopped listening to the monk, it seems.


Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:07 am
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Abd wrote:
Something is broken in Graaf's world, and I don't know what it is, but it makes him paranoid and often unintelligible.
Well, the paranoia is understandable - to most people who are new to the wikiverse, it is simply too unlikely that so many supposedly different people would say the same dumb shit for apparently the same reasons, and not be socks or meatpuppets. Hopefully he will come to realize the truth, and the tendency to see socks everywhere will stop. And really who is to say at least some of the time, he is right? We've all seen crazy unbelievable shit, you of all people know that.

What often makes him unintelligible, is merely the fact he is not a native English speaker. If you step back, it is quite easy to extract what he really means. If not, you can just ask.

Anyone who invited Graaf to a venue, and then bans him for being paranoid and unintelligible, really only has to answer one question - are they fit to even be moderating an online venue? They cannot in all seriousness not have known what he is like, and decided in advance whether they could deal, or not.

Similarly, anyone who doesn't know (or cannot find out) want his fued with Bart is all about, probably isn't spending enough time in the places Wikipedia critics need to read regularly, and thus cannot in all seriousness effectively moderate a Wikipedia related venue.

I echo the statements of confusion about why Discord is even being used for Wikipedia criticism. As I understood it, it is simply a fancier IRC, and it is not public. That can only fuel people's paranoia.

People have two clear choices in my mind, they can either post at Wikipediocracy, or here. Assuming setting up their own site is not an option. The two are sufficiently different in philosophy, culture and aims, that if they still see issues with both fora that make them feel like posting in a non-public chat room is more beneficial activity, I'm confident they could not hold their own, if they were ever called upon to defend their criticism.

Where are The Devil's Advocate and Probivouac, for example? The had plenty to say for themselves on the now departed Review III, and this venue would be the logical place for them to have decamped. But they would rather just disappear into the ether, if they aren't mucking around on Discord and nobody has told us. It leads me to question their motives, what they were really in this activity for.


Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:26 am
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Abd wrote:
Something is broken. Graaf could recover, but he's going to need to become rigorously and completely honest and clear about his own process, how he interprets reality. Or he will die this way. I asked him "What does the monk say," because he has a spirit guide (or equivalent). Graaf stopped listening to the monk, it seems.

Do me one favour, Abd, and stop this crap. Because I don't want to "recover" at all if that means I have to live in the strange wiki reality of Mdd, Romaine, Edo, Bart, Guido, Ciell and all the other pirates. I am really sorry, that was never my reality and never will be.

As I said before, something you didn't want to take from me, am I living in the Kingdom The Netherlands. And do I have to obey my king or to immigrate and give up my Dutch nationality. Because otherwise I am a pirate, and maybe even a criminal who has to pay high fines. And, of course you can denier this reality. Just take your pirate flag, run, shout we are no bots and storm the Europarlement, but that doesn't help me out.

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Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:31 am
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Abd wrote:
The *effect* is trolling.
Since I think both of us are banned from Wikipediocracy for "trolling" in the eyes of the establishment, and we both understand what our bans are really all about (displeasing the establishment with facts and analysis they don't like), I at least would be very careful about using this word in this way about other critics until I was absolutely confident I was accurately describing the behavior, that I hadn't misconstrued it.

Trolls simply aim for a reaction, any reaction, not caring what it is. In that respect, it can't even be said your statement makes sense, someone is either aiming to troll or they aren't, they can't be an accidental troll. Hence why we do not consider ourselves trolls. And whatever you think of Graaf, I don't think he meets that definition at all either.


Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:38 am
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