Point of order: Please show me where Fram was wrong in respect to Laura Hale.
In 2012, despite having been given this specific feedback.......
This thread is a perfect example why our process of "discipline by mob rule" is ridiculously broken. There's a vague allegation of somebody producing bad DYK articles, with no links, no diffs, no evidence whatsoever, no indication of prior dispute resolution, and people are seriously commenting about it? That's silly, and the proposer should be trouted. Sandstein 21:03, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
......Fram tried to justify himself thusly.......
Not wanting to reopen this discussion now, but it is a pity that this discussion was taken out of its context, leaving people like Sandstein understandably opposing (and trouting me) because there was no evidence, no links, no diffs and so on. In the original discussion, which can be seen at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Template:Did you know nominations/Gibraltar Rock, Porongurups
, those diffs were provided. By only removing the subsection to this place, and without a link to the original discussion, people voting here didn't get the full picture or the context of my proposal. I'm not claiming that that context would have changed the outcome, but it at least would have changed the appearance of the proposal as being baseless. Fram (talk) 08:15, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
On clicking the link, it soon becomes pretty obvious that Fram had only found a smattering of errors on a few spot checks, and it becomes obvious that even there he has had to include pretty trivial mistakes to pad it out.
Indeed, once you read the whole thing a few times, it really does become clear what this was all about. Fram had a gut feeling that Hale was the worst of the worst, based on his spot checking, and rather than do a systematic review, either of her error rate/type in isolation, or how it compared to other DYK submitters, he proceeded straight to the targeted nuclear option of proposing to the community that she be shunned.
Indeed, he was most adamant that he had absolutely no interest in other user's error rates at all, while simultaneously slagging the entire DYK project for the systemic issues that Fram believe must be the root cause of why they never spotted Hale before. Irony failure and then some.
The community were understandably unimpressed with his haste, illogical thinking and general lack of concern for alternate routes, such as RfC/U, which at that time still existed, and might have been more useful since rather obviously if his claims were true, they potentially effected more than just her DYK submissions.
Nope, For reasons that are familiar to anyone who knows Fram, he saw what he thought was a problem with a specific user, and decided his idea of a solution, a hasty, highly personalized and targeted approach designed to cause maximum distress, was the only acceptable outcome. To that end, he ignored or even indignantly mocked those who demured, even those who conceded there might be some underlying issue that needed some form of redress.
This is the whole case right here. Fram doesn't do policy enforcement, he does harassment, and it really matters not whether he is right or wrong on the underlying facts, and it his particular form of harassment that makes it difficult for that to be ascertained anyway. He turns everyone against him, rather than trying to take them with him.
You will note that for all his certainty this was a serious, indeed unprecedented, threat to Wikipedia, when the community decided with a "sufficiently strong consensus" that he had shot his bolt, he didn't see the need to come back with a properly evidenced complaint to ensure a mistake wasn't being made because of a simple issue of insufficient context. Nope, he just seemed to accept it, but actually bided his time, stalking the user, until he finally found something he could use to obtain the covetted W, Spanish translation issues. Curiously, even though the issue he found did involve DYK, he had seemingly forgotten all about his previous concerns over DYK.
This is harassment.
This is why, when the example of Hale was put to him in the community provided evidence, his only response was, What, that shit? That's old news.
Strange he would say that, given it's that old news which earned him an interaction ban, that is still in effect. Odd that in all this outrage, he doesn't see that as an affront worthy of specific challenge. He named her, to set the dogs on her, but that's a very different thing done for a speedy different purpose, right Vigilant? Good boy that you are.
He knows what he does, he knows what others think of it, he can see the effect it has on his targets, he just does everything he can to pretend like this isn't the real issue. If he has to resort to pretending this is old news irrelevant to his entire defence, he will.
To circle back to the original issue, this was a really bizarre thing to say......
I'm not claiming that that context would have changed the outcome, but it at least would have changed the appearance of the proposal as being baseless.
For a start, it is a pretty obvious lie - he clearly does think that if the proper context was there he would have got what he wanted. But we understand why he said it, he could foresee a case exactly like this in future, so he wanted to make sure that people understood he wasn't filing erroneous reports, he was just not being sufficiently supported by the community in his assessment of the threat. Not problem, not opportunity to set a user on the right path or graciously say thanks but no thanks, but a threat to the very essence of Wikipedia, that just be neutralized. Super Fram, back to save the day again! Peeeow peeeeow. My weapon is bigger than yours.
You're a fucking mug Vigiant. You're carrying much water for a gamification brewed harasser in some desperate hope you can hurt the WMF, and you fucking know it. Even in this one thread, we can see there is no conspiracy, the alleged corrupt cabal that supposedly rose up to defend Hale against the heroic Fram, is more accurately described as the community
- friends and strangers, co-workers and random passers by, and beat cops of course, the boys in blue. The same mooks you find all over the 'pedia, having pretty much the same philosophical disagreements over now to handle issues.
You carry on with this shit, you might accidentally wind up giving Eric Corbert's enablers a few ideas. Indeed, I think they already have been taking tips from this strategy. Indeed, rather hilariously, it was one of Eric's biggest defenders who pointed out in this farce, that catching errors is the whole point of the activity Fram was engaged in, that is
the DYK system, and Hale was by far from the worst offender as Fram claimed. So coming to AN/I without realizing proving a pattern and proving it was Hale specifically was going to be his task, that's on him. That's your point of order answered in a nutshell.
Embarrassing, this shit, it really is.