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'Paddo Vigilant' wrote something - again 
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Lordy lord.....
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The Fram arbitration is breaking new ground:

* An unprecedented, out of process one year ban from en.wp

Not without precedent nor out of process - this specific process having been used in de.wiki, a project with as much if not more claim to be able to run its own affairs without WMF intervention.

* Secret evidence that the defendant and public can't see

Not remotely unprecedented. Standard procedure even.

* A mass uprising

On a similar scale to the uprisings seen against Pending Changes and Super Protect

* The Board forcing the WMF to backoff

Possibly the only unprecedented act here, but how would you really verify that? Especially given the bullshit conspiracy theories you think are the norm.

* Along delay to the start of the process

It would be unprecedented if any aspect of en.wiki Arbitration went according to published deadlines.

* The respondent banned and prevented from posting his own defense

Standard procedure for global bans, this ban having merely been a variant of such. So not remotely unprecedented, and frankly absolutely fucking generous.

* The complainant "retired" and vanished

Happens all the time. A byproduct of en.wiki not being remotely capable of or even willing to stop bloodthirsty mobs out for revenge. They didn't even say a word as en.wiki Administrators teamed up with the scumbags on your forum.

* An evidence stage with virtually no evidence

You really do need to start watching Wikipedia closely. Not remotely unheard of.

* Partial leaks of the super secret T&S dossier

Both the Foundation and en.wiki have leaked before. The weak link is always the same - en.wiki Administrators are simply untrustworthy.

* An arb repeatedly attempting to add evidence after the evidence phase closed

As above, start watching Wikipedia more closely.

* An admission by an arb that the secret evidence and the paltry public evidence are functionally the same

Perhaps a precedent. Hardly matters. Where's the surprise supposed to be in learning that this was a case of the staff and the community having a different interpretation of the same events?

* The closing of the workshop phase with no agreement on what has actually happened to precipitate the crisis

Standard procedure. Divisive issues like Eric Corbett routinely see the Committee failing to agree on why they are even examining an issue, ever after closing the case. The precedent being set here, will be that people are actually expecting them to make a decision, and anything they do is a decision, even if it is to do nothing.
You're (still) an embarrassment.

Poor little mute that he is.


Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:44 am
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Een ongehoorde trap onder je hol moet jij hebben, Vig, en dát heb jij nodig. Je ben slim zat, nu de rest nog. :mrgreen:



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Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 am
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Paddo Vigilant wrote:
Given how much shit I'm digging up, I'd advise Fram to exercise whatever rights to get data from the WMF that the EU affords him.

It's certain that Laura Hale has conspired with employees of the WMF to ban him.
It's certain that this was done to prevent her burgeoning 'career' with the WMF from being derailed.

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
Those paddo's are really getting a problem for you, Vig. :mrgreen:

Because what data for the fucking hell could Eurocrap sock Fram asking WMF with the EU regulation in his hand? And what has the whole madam Hale thing to do with the FramBan?

It's again Utter Fucking Vigshit, as usual. :mrgreen:

It's certain that Laura Hale has conspired with employees of the WMF to ban him.

You have till now given zero evidents of this claim. Nothing is certain, that's your own gaslight.

It's certain that this was done to prevent her burgeoning 'career' with the WMF from being derailed

So? That's a great catch man, but can you also give a link to prove this is correct, Vig?


UTTER FUCKING VIGSHIT, VIG!

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Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:49 am
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Impressive, Vig.

https://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewto ... 00#p247801

And yes, most/all of that GLAM projects are just hidden payed editing and are a massive clusterfuck, but that is not the point. The point is you and Guido take in a very creepy way revanche with the help of the Eurocontroll Eurocrap Sucking&Trolling department because of a personal rancune.
And there it is about. And when do you come over bro, to post in a normal way without that stupid sunglasses avatar and in a adult way? Because that was what you promised not long ago.

I told you before, you can so much better, it is simple embarrassing to see how deep you have sinked.
I should love to talk with you under four eyes because this simple can't go on.

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Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:33 am
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Point of order: Please show me where Fram was wrong in respect to Laura Hale.
Easy.

In 2012, despite having been given this specific feedback.......
Quote:
This thread is a perfect example why our process of "discipline by mob rule" is ridiculously broken. There's a vague allegation of somebody producing bad DYK articles, with no links, no diffs, no evidence whatsoever, no indication of prior dispute resolution, and people are seriously commenting about it? That's silly, and the proposer should be trouted. Sandstein 21:03, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
......Fram tried to justify himself thusly.......
Quote:
Not wanting to reopen this discussion now, but it is a pity that this discussion was taken out of its context, leaving people like Sandstein understandably opposing (and trouting me) because there was no evidence, no links, no diffs and so on. In the original discussion, which can be seen at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Template:Did you know nominations/Gibraltar Rock, Porongurups, those diffs were provided. By only removing the subsection to this place, and without a link to the original discussion, people voting here didn't get the full picture or the context of my proposal. I'm not claiming that that context would have changed the outcome, but it at least would have changed the appearance of the proposal as being baseless. Fram (talk) 08:15, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
On clicking the link, it soon becomes pretty obvious that Fram had only found a smattering of errors on a few spot checks, and it becomes obvious that even there he has had to include pretty trivial mistakes to pad it out.

Indeed, once you read the whole thing a few times, it really does become clear what this was all about. Fram had a gut feeling that Hale was the worst of the worst, based on his spot checking, and rather than do a systematic review, either of her error rate/type in isolation, or how it compared to other DYK submitters, he proceeded straight to the targeted nuclear option of proposing to the community that she be shunned.

Indeed, he was most adamant that he had absolutely no interest in other user's error rates at all, while simultaneously slagging the entire DYK project for the systemic issues that Fram believe must be the root cause of why they never spotted Hale before. Irony failure and then some.

The community were understandably unimpressed with his haste, illogical thinking and general lack of concern for alternate routes, such as RfC/U, which at that time still existed, and might have been more useful since rather obviously if his claims were true, they potentially effected more than just her DYK submissions.

Nope, For reasons that are familiar to anyone who knows Fram, he saw what he thought was a problem with a specific user, and decided his idea of a solution, a hasty, highly personalized and targeted approach designed to cause maximum distress, was the only acceptable outcome. To that end, he ignored or even indignantly mocked those who demured, even those who conceded there might be some underlying issue that needed some form of redress.

This is the whole case right here. Fram doesn't do policy enforcement, he does harassment, and it really matters not whether he is right or wrong on the underlying facts, and it his particular form of harassment that makes it difficult for that to be ascertained anyway. He turns everyone against him, rather than trying to take them with him.

You will note that for all his certainty this was a serious, indeed unprecedented, threat to Wikipedia, when the community decided with a "sufficiently strong consensus" that he had shot his bolt, he didn't see the need to come back with a properly evidenced complaint to ensure a mistake wasn't being made because of a simple issue of insufficient context. Nope, he just seemed to accept it, but actually bided his time, stalking the user, until he finally found something he could use to obtain the covetted W, Spanish translation issues. Curiously, even though the issue he found did involve DYK, he had seemingly forgotten all about his previous concerns over DYK.

This is harassment.

This is why, when the example of Hale was put to him in the community provided evidence, his only response was, What, that shit? That's old news. Strange he would say that, given it's that old news which earned him an interaction ban, that is still in effect. Odd that in all this outrage, he doesn't see that as an affront worthy of specific challenge. He named her, to set the dogs on her, but that's a very different thing done for a speedy different purpose, right Vigilant? Good boy that you are.

He knows what he does, he knows what others think of it, he can see the effect it has on his targets, he just does everything he can to pretend like this isn't the real issue. If he has to resort to pretending this is old news irrelevant to his entire defence, he will.

To circle back to the original issue, this was a really bizarre thing to say......
Quote:
I'm not claiming that that context would have changed the outcome, but it at least would have changed the appearance of the proposal as being baseless.
For a start, it is a pretty obvious lie - he clearly does think that if the proper context was there he would have got what he wanted. But we understand why he said it, he could foresee a case exactly like this in future, so he wanted to make sure that people understood he wasn't filing erroneous reports, he was just not being sufficiently supported by the community in his assessment of the threat. Not problem, not opportunity to set a user on the right path or graciously say thanks but no thanks, but a threat to the very essence of Wikipedia, that just be neutralized. Super Fram, back to save the day again! Peeeow peeeeow. My weapon is bigger than yours.

------

You're a fucking mug Vigiant. You're carrying much water for a gamification brewed harasser in some desperate hope you can hurt the WMF, and you fucking know it. Even in this one thread, we can see there is no conspiracy, the alleged corrupt cabal that supposedly rose up to defend Hale against the heroic Fram, is more accurately described as the community - friends and strangers, co-workers and random passers by, and beat cops of course, the boys in blue. The same mooks you find all over the 'pedia, having pretty much the same philosophical disagreements over now to handle issues.

You carry on with this shit, you might accidentally wind up giving Eric Corbert's enablers a few ideas. Indeed, I think they already have been taking tips from this strategy. Indeed, rather hilariously, it was one of Eric's biggest defenders who pointed out in this farce, that catching errors is the whole point of the activity Fram was engaged in, that is the DYK system, and Hale was by far from the worst offender as Fram claimed. So coming to AN/I without realizing proving a pattern and proving it was Hale specifically was going to be his task, that's on him. That's your point of order answered in a nutshell.

Embarrassing, this shit, it really is.


Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:52 am
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:roll:
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Almost all of Laura Hale's articles survived AfD because her posse of shitheels came in and voted Keep.

Check the record.
I have. Even after you supposedly provided the proof, it looks not much different to the above resistance in that topic ban proposal. You claims of a cabal able to influence discussions to assist Hale, are absurd.

Unless, of course, the cabal is so huge and transient, it basically is the bulk of the community, or a significant chunk of it, one that is highly representative of their myriad views and philosophies, such as the inclusionists, and the women are people too freaks. In which case, you've not so much found a conspiracy, as described how Wikipedia works.

Only a numbnuts could seriously come to the conclusion that Wikipedia doesn't work not because it cannot work (HTD!), but because the Lizard People are preventing it from working, for [insert whatever conspiracy theory motivator is his choice for the hour].

You've absolutely lost your fucking marbles. If not, I would go with that excuse anyway, because it's far less embarrassing than the prospect you're doing this on purpose, as a bona fide Wikipedia critic. You look more like someone who has been paid to do this shit, which is ironic.


Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:11 am
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CrowsNest wrote:
You look more like someone who has been paid to do this shit, which is ironic.

Here you hit the nail, Crow. What Vig and mendaliv are doing is style payed Russian troll farm.

This too:

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2019/08/ ... hit-piece/

Why for the fucking hell a picture of Jimmyo on top as if he is approving this is what he want of his wikipedia. As if he is teaching this and and is only happy if the cattle is following him with this shit.
Listen, Jimmy ones said he did many afoul stupide things in his life and made a few extreem bad business decisions, but that he didn't want to blew wikipedia and I believe him. And no, not Jimmy want this, you guys want this and want to have your hands free, and that is going on.

Because, as Abd described in one of his last postings of course Wikipedia can much better and much more cheaper and effective. But that is simple not where you guys are looking for. You are looking for the pot of gold in the middle, for the fame, for the fun, to promote yourself, to fill your pockets with bullshit money, to push your frustrated poor woman vision to the world, but not to build a encyclopedia to make a better world.This is simple not the heritage he wants to leave behind him, we here want a other.

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Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:29 am
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The issue is if LH is truly responsible for the Framban.
There is literally nobody else on en.wp that fits the profile.
There's not even a close second.
There's not even an aggregation of other users who's a close second.

That ARBCOM has to be careful to not say her name just shows how utterly broken this case is at a fundamental level.

Everything happened on en.wp.
There are a ton of contacts between Laura Hale and Fram.
It's all public record.
It's not nice.
Laura Hale was in the wrong on every occasion that I've dug up.
Laura Hale has a two decade history of playing dirty, manipulative politics on wikis.
Laura Hale is the wife of the Chair of the Board of Trustees.

What other explanation makes ANY sense? At all?
Oh, you poor fool.

If you had been listening instead of yapping, you'd already know the answer.

At least two Administrators could have sent an email to T&S - Ritchie and Drmies. Both were incredibly slow to deny they had any involvement, both have an awful habit of behind the scenes communication, both have a long record of shitting on policy if it suits their personal agendas, and both have been pissed at Fram for a long time.

At least three Arbitrators are in the frame too - Rob, AGK and SilkTork, all having made it clear they wanted a case, if not more, but were being frustrated by their colleagues. You make a big deal of ArbCom not mentioning her - they don't need to, they just need to sit back and let gullible douchebags inspired by your bullshit to post "speculation" to take the heat off them. You know what they're really not mentioning? What their role was, up to and after Framban. Nobody has the balls or the sense to call for the release relevant parts of the ArbCom mailing list and their internal wiki, all documents produced in the community's name, so they might better understand how things got so bad, looked so utterly broken, that T&S thought themselves justified in their direct action, which was entirely within policy.

If all it took was an email, it could literally be any of the experienced editors Fram really went after, and just looked on in dismay as the community did nothing about him, not even when it was put on a plate for AN/I and the community. When you see a perfectly legitimate complaint reacted to with the sort of naked intimidation from actual Wikipedia Administrators for daring to criticise one of their own, the ones who crawl around in your sewer, well, who is remotely surprised someone went over ALL their heads, and the heads of the absent ArbCom? People can claim all they want that the existence of T&S was not widely known to experienced Wikipedia editors, but they're fooling themselves. While you were off in some crack den, serious critics like us were watching. We know the names of at least a dozen people who fit that profile. People who love Wikipedia even as traditionalists, won't have had any compunction about seeking the help of the Foundation to fix what they see as being a major problem, it they saw that as the only option.

None of these people needed the leverage or connections to have persuaded T&S to act on their complaints by beginning an investigation, there is ample evidence to show the Foundation were simply waiting for an opportunity to demonstrate to the en.wiki hobbits they were sick and tired of them thinking they could continue to take a relaxed approach to harassment (as in WP:HARASSment), and they wanted to send a message. And there is plenty of reason to think they saw Fram as the perfect case though which to send that message, for reasons explained here already at length. It is certainly more plausible than believing they happily ate all his shit for years, and only when he had finally run out of things to bitch at the Foundation about, they banned him, because he supposedly represented such a massive threat. As if.

Your theory is ridiculous, on so many levels, all brought up here before, and greeted with silence from you and the other Muppets at harassment central.

You're being an absolute fucking tool. The longer you keep screeching, the longer you keep ignoring the faults in your conspiracy theory while claiming it is the only plausible explanation, the stupider you come across as.


Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:28 am
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He speaks!

http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtop ... 47#p247947

I can destroy your entire argument even when I'm supposedly "drunk"?

And at half seven in the morning at that? I must have really tied one on, eh?

I'm taking it.

Come at me 'bro.

......................... :?:

LEAVE IT BRUISER, HE'S NOT WORTH IT

Guess we can add bar fights to the list of things Vigilant is scared of.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

How appropriate that the creepy dude hiding in the corner of the bar while taking pictures up women's skirts, both for his own prurient interest and to be shared around his dirty Wikipedian mates back at the Wikipediocracy tree house, doesn't want to fight.

Lock yourselves in the tree house for all I care. We got petrol and matches.

HTD.

:twisted:


Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:47 am
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:roll:
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The truth is an absolute defense against libel.
You better look up the dictionary definitions of grifter then.


Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:48 am
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