After 76 pages, Wikipediocracy still can't be honest about the basic facts of their batshit Framgate conspiracy theory

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After 76 pages, Wikipediocracy still can't be honest about the basic facts of their batshit Framgate conspiracy theory

Post by Jake Is A Sellout » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:10 pm

The WMF have a new woman CEO, and with no hint of irony, the Wikipediocracy folks are chuntering on about whether she truly knows what she has singed up for.

So lets give her an insight into what the nutjob wing of the movement, fully endorsed by Beeblebrox, the exact sort of scum she is undoubtedly going to have to deal with at some point, is really all about, shall we?

Their thread on Framgate is up to 76 pages, and the lesbian power couple conspiracy theory is still their settled analysis. Nothing else fits, in their eyes.

And nor would it. Because in the true tradition of batshit conspiracy theories, they make the facts fit their chosen theory, not the other way around.

Here's sell out Jake, Bored Admin, making it offishul......(but as ever, not so official that they're prepared to put any of it in a blog post, even though if true, it would be the biggest scandal in Foundation history).....
Sure, it's possible that we're wrong about the "direct request" issue. But if you really dig down, it becomes increasingly clear that all of this was consistent with a well-documented pattern of behavior that points very strongly in the other direction.
76 fucking pages, and they still aren't prepared to admit that the conflict of interest was fully declared, that nobody was in the dark, that Fram was an exceptional harasser, that the need to find new and powerful ways to clamp down on English Wikipedia's harasmsent problem was long standing and well known, that there were multiple complainants and nobody can even prove the women in question was one of them, and that the ultimate choice to only ban Fram for a year and only from English Wikipedia was actually perfectly understandable and was actually fully explained, and makes perfect sense.

Why do Wikipediocracy continue to choose to ignore these inconvenient facts? Becasue this is hardly the first time I have reminded them of their existence. Because doesn't it make if far easier to sell this bullshit, by claiming, without evidence, and contrary to the facts, that there was no declaration, that people in the investigation genuinely didn't know the risks, and that the are no perfectly plausible alternate explanations for why Fram was chosen for this experiment in taking a hard line on minimal standards?

People did know, and they did it anyway. The tinfoil hat brigade hate this, because it shows the truth. What Fram was doing, and more importantly, what the community and their ArbCom leadership weren't doing about it, was so serious, it justified taking the risks that they could be accused of doing something wrong, something underhand.

There was no other suitable candidate, no other case so prime for action. If there was, they could name them, surely? In terms of scale and harm, not even a scumlord like Guy Chapman matches what Fram was doing, or showed how and why the community was letting him do it, right up to and including multiple free passes from ArbCom.

Fram was extraordinary, perhaps genuinely mentally ill even. He was so dogged and shameless, he was that rare example of an Administrator actually being told to cool it and alter his approach, on occasion. What did he do? Ignored it. Confident as he was that he had the mob behind him, and ArbCom wouldn't do anything about him even if they wanted to, lest it see them voted out en mass, or worse, strung up as traitors.

I mean for fuck's sake, let's have it right. Fram is the ONLY example I'm aware of, of someone seen as such a problem, such a black stain on the already pretty tarnished reputation of "English Wikipedia Administrator", that an ArbCom member actually saw the need to step down from the bench and prosecute them himself.

This is yet another of the many inconvenient facts that simply don't factor into the whack job Wikipediocracy conspiracy theory.

If they had any actual facts of their own which contradict these publicly available facts, they would have come to light somewhere in that thread. I hate to disappoint Vigilant, but his standard READ THE THREAD IF YOU WANT PROOF is not going to work, because I have read the thread, I read it as they were writing it.

There is no proof that Fram is the victim of a conspiracy. Just allegations upon allegations, and Bush did 9/11 type assertions.

In short, it's fucking garbage, from start to finish.

It's so obvious, the inherent lies and misdirection their theory necessarily promotes and propagates.

To take one topical example, it's genuinely still a point of contention in the community as to whether its OK to punch a Nazi. By contrast, before Framgate, and probably still now, it was the settled view that it's OK to insult and denigrate and generally try to bully a user with less power and less voice than you. And you can get away with it if the community thinks your bullying is being done in the name of Wikipedia. The sort of bullying that has never been recognised as such by ArbCom, even though the way Fram went about his business was in explicit violation of settled policy and oft stated ArbCom principles in support of it.

The community didn't care. An open secret, like how the civility pillar still actually exists, on paper.

Wikipedia Administrators aren't cops, and they do not stand alone. They are supposed to hand off issues to the community or their colleagues if they meet resistance to their Orders. It's never supposed to be personal, and it's never supposed to look personal.

If a person gets upset to the point of actually wanting to leave Wikipedia because of how the Administration has treated them, then it has to be unambiguously true and obvious that they weren't mistreated and they are one hundred percent responsible for their own upset. That was never the case with Fram. NEVER.

Even if that genuinely wasn't his intention, there was ample reason why he looked like a psycho creep, utterly obsessed with the idea that if he couldn't get his victim to comply, he would DESTROY them, the ends justifying the means. Threats to Wikipedia shall be nullified, and absolutely nobody could get in his way, even his own colleagues.

It was Judge Dredd stuff, but sadly in this game, there were real people being harmed. Wikipediocracy, as ever, only seems to have sympathy for the poor Wikipedians. Fuck them.

They were all guilty. Fram wasn't doing what he did in my name. I'm not a scumbag.

The scum that calls itself the community, the white western male techbros, absolutely loved him for it. He was their freaking HERO. Even those who disliked him personally, were prepared to stand with him on principle, for what he represented.

The right of the scum to regulate their own behaviour. The swamp must not be drained. It must be kept toxic. Newcomers with a clear eye for what is toxic behaviour, are a threat to their hobby.

Fram needs Wikipedia. He can't get satisfy his deep seated need to be a bully anywhere else, at least not for free, and certainly not anonymously. Cops have badge numbers. You can even shoot cops, in the name of justice. Wikipedia is not justice, as they never tire of reminding people. Why? Because you can't have people like Fram in positions of power, if you're trying to be good people.

The Wikipediocracy crowd, mirroring as they do the demographics and mindset of the community, know deep down that the Foundation didn't do anything wrong, they took a bold and brave move, for the right reasons, and they paid for it. Because the community are in fact worse than they had ever imagined. They are as revolting as we serious critics would have told them they are, had they asked. They literally revolted to stand with Fram and against any idea they and their directly elected leadership had failed to uphold what is a clear and documented minimum standard of behaviour that is supposed to apply across the board, in their shithouse of a project.

The movement you see today, where en.wiki ArbCom member Beeblebrox feels zero shame about hopping across to Commons to harass Fae as part of an obvious personal feud, and Ymblanter feels no shame in having made an obviously improper block to assist him, and he actually LAUGHS at the idea the corporation can hold him to account where the community did not, is what resulted from their revolution.

A woman would never step into this insanity, if she truly knew want she was taking on.

And it pisses Wikipediocracy off, because they knows that that means for them really. It shows who they stand with. Scum. He's right there, next to them, after all. Beeblebrox. He uses the word "we" to refer to Wikipediocracy, because he identifies with them. Scum knows scum.

Fae can be bullied by Beeblebrox because he is "gross". Unworthy of any expectation of the minimum standard of behaviour in wiki land, where people like Beeblebrox have real power. Beeblebrox broke the very rules he is expected to uphold. Fact. Let him deny it, if he DARES. Beeblebrox is on the committee expected to remind people that pursuing personal fueds is wrong, and if you have a grievance, there is only one acceptable way to pursue it.

These are all the hallmarks of a failed governance system that couldn't or wouldn't deal with an obvious problem like Fram. They have what they all fought for in Framgate. Continuity of scummery.

Toxic is as toxic does.

Obvious batshit conspiracy theory is obvious batshit conspiracy theory.

Can they prove otherwise? Can they fuck. And they have absolutely no interest in doing so, they only want to shout and scream and insult and try to unperson the people who have noticed the holes in their story and have reasonable queries. Which is exactly what you would expect, from tinfoil hat wearing nutjobs.

Into the sea with them.

:flamingbanana:


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Re: After 76 pages, Wikipediocracy still can't be honest about the basic facts of their batshit Framgate conspiracy theo

Post by Jake Is A Sellout » Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:47 pm

Oh Jake, do you really think people are this thick?
Lots of WP admins act like assholes towards untalented n00bs — the idea that he was somehow unique or even unusual in this regard is pretty close to absurd. ....

Frankly, from my observations, I have to conclude that the only purpose of this "Fram was unique"/"Fram was the poster boy" argument is WP/WMF apologism
Your observations aren't worth shit.

Here are the FACTS as far as I know them. Feel free to correct them, if you or any of your Fram apologists can.

1. Fram is the only Administrator who was ever taken to ArbCom, by a sitting Arb.

2. Fram is one of only a TINY (less than three?) Administrators who had been given repeated get out of jail free cards by ArbCom.

I'd have to check the records, but Fram is if not unique, he is perhaps rare, in just how insanely unapologetic he was for his crimes, even when consensus went agaisnt him at AN/I.

And of course we can never know for sure, but we can certainly speculate with some certainty, that Fram is unique in being the only Administrator who was given a formal warning by T&S, and went and straight up ignored it.

If you haven't got an identified example that people can compare to see if that Administrator had a worse record than Fram, then what do you have?

Nuttin.

:lol:

Apologists indeed. We just remember shit correctly, don't feel any great need to side with the scum in their fight against their supposed evil overlords.

Try it some day.

Be a real critic.

Stop sucking Beebledick. :oops:

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Re: After 76 pages, Wikipediocracy still can't be honest about the basic facts of their batshit Framgate conspiracy theo

Post by Jake Is A Sellout » Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:16 am

I am glad to report that under the uncomfortable heat of the truth, Jake has at least now downgraded his conspiracy theory from being the only thing anyone would believe happened, to a mere likely explanation.

https://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewto ... 58#p295360

He desperately tries to fill other holes, but he fails. Laws were undoubtedly broken if their narrative is to hold true, and it's sad he is trying to pretend those laws pertain to the actual act, rather than the really quite elaborate web of lies the corporate body was ultimately guilty of.

Even sadder if he genuinely didn't know that's where the illegality (and thus primary motive for an actual, legit conspiracy and coverup) lies, and is illegal precisely because it affects matters money. Although it would hardly be the first time that a conspiracy theorist fell down for want of a proper understanding of both his narrative framework and the general topic.

I will repeat my position. I do not take up this cause solely to bash them, but will freely admit the obvious, that I enjoy my work. I desperately want this theory to be true, for the reason already stated. To restate, if it was even remotely true, it would be explosive, and could potentially bring down the WMF.

Nobody is asking for a smoking gun. I have never said they had one, or that they claimed to have one. A blog post that merely connects the dots they claim already exist in that mega thread, would suffice. Something to persuade.

There never has and never will be a blog post, because they know that what little their fever dreams cobbled together, can't stand up to even basic scrutiny when written out as an actual narrative that keeps to the established facts and fills them in with reasonable supposition and a suitable conclusion.

And therefore it becomes easy, very easy, to disbelieve even a watered down claim that it is one likely explanation.

It is what it is. A 75 page thread on a conspiracy theory.

They could at least post a potted and linked summary, if only to stop the embarrassing sight of Vigilant having to repeatedly tell doubters to just read a 76 page thread if they don't believe him.

But therein lies the rub. Even the summary would be quite contradictory and irreconcilable. Such is the way of the ever changing mind of the whackjobs. They see no issues. We are the enemy as much as the Foundation.

All I want is a reasonable offering of a plausible truth.

You guys did say it would be coming, after all.....

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Re: After 76 pages, Wikipediocracy still can't be honest about the basic facts of their batshit Framgate conspiracy theo

Post by Jake Is A Sellout » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:09 am

Oh Jake, you really are a glutton for punishment.
Now, to some people who are predisposed to disagree with everything I say, that might sound like conspiracist reasoning. But we're not really talking about a conspiracy here, we're talking about why people would think (or pretend to think) the idea that Maria Sefidari put her thumb on the scale is somehow "ridiculous." And who knows, it may actually be a form of lingering Trumpism or something wherein people publicly take the position that if the other side can't produce a "smoking gun," then the other side must be loudly decried as a bunch of lunatics, because you certainly can't give an inch when the mean 'n' scary fact-checkers get too close to the truth.

But I actually don't think that's what it is at all. I think it's just personal animosity towards us, for all the mean 'n' scary things we've done over the years, like, I dunno, banning those same people from Wikipediocracy, maybe.
As far as I can tell, and I appreciate conspiracy theorists have troubles with reality, I'm the one doing the fact checking here.

Example:

Wingnuts: Yeah, this was some skeevy shit, and you know what, I bet she never even declared her conflict of interest, which shows just how guilty she is!

Fact checker: She had declared her conflict of interest. I bet that crucial revelation is even in that fucking giant thread you keep telling people to read if they think you're nuts, somewhere nearer the front than the back I am guessing. You fucking dickheads.

Also, my recollection is that you banned me because I said America had no workable plan for what to do when Trump refuses to concede, and your sad demwank blind trust in the constitution was merely going to get people killed and make America look like a failed state, and I backed my opinion based on a solid analysis of what had already happened during his presidency, right under your stupid noses. When will I get my apology and reinstatement? Now that events have proven who was the serious analyst and who were the sad bastards living in a fantasy world?

If you hate being called lunatics, stop being fucking lunatics.

To literally repeat myself, I don't want to see a smoking a gun, I want a cohesive narrative. A theory. Batshit free information about what you think happened and why.

You can't keep taking people for fools. It was only yesterday you claimed what she did was perfectly legal. Now you're back to language which implies the opposite.

If you're not talking out of your asses, you'd have no trouble sticking to a consistent and cohesive narrative.

But you are talking out of your asses, which is why your statements on this matter are always strangely vague and ever changing.

Unless or until you can actually be honest and tell people specifically what you think actually happened, how that diverged from the official statements (we can wait while you go back and recall what they were, because they include stuff like the existence of her declaration), and explain that divergence with a consistent logic, than as much as it upsets you, people aren't obliged to think of it as a reasonable scenario.

They're entitled to think you are lunatics.

Believe me, I have barely even started to repeat the very long list of holes in this theory, and I can barely keep up as you add yet more. They went after Fram because he had no friends? Yup, that probably discredits if not destroys two or three other planks of your theory.

This would have been obvious if you'd had the balls (or the talent) to try and write this bollocks up as a blog post. You'd get nowhere, tie yourself in knots, but at least you'd realise where you ballsed it all up. You started with the assumption that the Foundation did something bad, and that Fram is somehow a victim here. Because you are prejudiced.

You're the one who is acting as if what you say in this matter is entirely borne of personal belief. I have simply stuck to the facts, and let them lead me where they will lead me. And I won't lie, I do it because I know it annoys you, because invariably, as I have known for years, given a choice between the facts and sucking Wikipedian dick, you will always choose the latter. You are what you are. Your forum is what it is.

You're not serious critics.

You should have listened to me. The moment you chickened out of summarising this thread in a blog post, was the moment most people will have decided you are full of it. That it's just the same old usual shite. The only people supporting you in this theory, are people who need your grace and favour.

Thank fucking Christ that only applies to a few sad bastards who have got shit for brains and Wikipedian dick in their mouths. Otherwise Wikipedia criticism really would be fucked.

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Re: After 76 pages, Wikipediocracy still can't be honest about the basic facts of their batshit Framgate conspiracy theo

Post by ericbarbour » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:26 am

Jake Is A Sellout wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:09 am
Oh Jake, you really are a glutton for punishment.
At least you admit it.... ;)

Why not create a sock account there, and post a few dozen bland neutral anodyne items to get their "respect". No rants about Beeb or Jake or whatever. Then start asking for access to the private areas. Do it right and they might give in.

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Re: After 76 pages, Wikipediocracy still can't be honest about the basic facts of their batshit Framgate conspiracy theo

Post by Jake Is A Sellout » Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:59 am

Well, Without Comfort could be my brother from another mother, so who knows, maybe I am already on there.

8-)

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Re: After 76 pages, Wikipediocracy still can't be honest about the basic facts of their batshit Framgate conspiracy theo

Post by ericbarbour » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:24 pm

And ps, fuck all those assholes. Vigitwat was right about one thing: LAURA HALE IS FUCKING BONKERS. I could list some of the deeply insane things she's done (including helping to crash Wikimedia Australia at least once, and helping to ruin Wikinews). And I could post it on WPO. But they will probably remove it. Hale is married (?) to a WMF Trustee and that's the end of the story. She rose to her level of maximal incompetence.

Anyone remember the ancient Dramatica article about Hale? She was stirring up chaos on fanfiction.net and Livejournal twenty years ago. Before Wikipedia existed. Livejournal was an incredible boiling sewer of mental illness in those days--made Tumblr and Twitter seem a bit tame. And I further suspect some of those fellow Aussie lunatics from Livejournal followed her onto Wikipedia. They usually operated under all kinds of sock names so it would be untraceable today.

Anyone need a reminder? Book wiki, 2012:
Eventually, WMAU became the victim of very nasty "schisms". The first was when John Vandenberg's protégé Laura Hale decided to run a slate of officers against his slate in the 2012 WMAU elections. Hale and Steve "Steven Zhang" Crossin formally nominated the renegade slate. Vandenberg won and Hale lost on November 25 with 34 total votes cast.[4] In the wake of defeat, Hale, Hawkeye7 (T-C-F-R-B) and Robert Myers (aka Bidgee (T-C-F-R-B)) then travelled from Australia to a ski competition in Colorado. Prior to the election, they applied for a $4,635 grant from WMAU so that they could visit WMF headquarters and also photograph the competition. They left for the trip with the grant application pending and tried to negotiate the grant en route, which was ultimately denied. [5]

Hale was so disappointed that she resigned from WMAU. She later obtained a Wikipedian in residence which added (non-notable) Spanish Paralympic content to Wikipedia.[6] At around this time, Hale also showed up on Wikinews and became one of its primary pests.

It was discussed in a most amusing Wikipediocracy thread. Which also mentioned the existence of a "private" WMAU mailing list, which apparently was the focus of considerable argumentation.
Note: many of the links to the WMAU wiki posted on WIkipediocracy are now dead. I presume Hale pulled strings.
some cult victim wrote:The WMF fundamentally agrees with you that the English Wikipedia has an asshole problem.
You slimy POS. The WMF is a rotten sandwich with idiot bread and asshole meat, and covered with flies and maggots. They hired just enough "young, inexperienced and enthusiastic" workers to cover up the fucking EVIL TRICKS being performed in the background by people like Forrester, Sherry Snyder and Liam Wyatt (WHO ARE STILL WORKING THERE). Wyatt being one of the Wiki-stab-in-backers who built and crashed WMAU.

Fram be damned and Hale be damned. All of this is a distraction.

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