Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

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Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

Post by Boink Boink » Sun Jun 25, 2023 9:04 am

In a rare outbreak of Wikipedia criticism, Wikipediocracy have noticed the weirdness of how long and glowing the biography of the internet star Colleen Ballinger a.k.a. "Miranda Sings" is.....

https://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewto ... 16&t=13014

The Wikipediots are stoicly defending it, even as the growing media coverage of her creepy if not downright disturbing relationship with her fandom is now seeing sponsors dump her.

It is perhaps a sign of more scandals to come regarding this new breed of celebrity, since it is only now that sufficient time has passed and the now adult fans are looking back at their childhoods and asking, rightly, wtf, and speaking their truth to the media (or rather, to the internet, then being happy to go on record in the media).

Would that this could also happen with the relationship between Wikipedia and it's often barely out of short pants devoted army of defenders, but alas, with critics like Wikipediocracy, that will never happen. Old white dudes making twelve her old girls cry because they get caught up in the war between those who want Eric Corbett to be all the asshole he wants to be, and clear and unequivocal Wikipedia policy, is not fucked up at all, to those creeps. We know whose side they are on.

A massive advantage the Defenders of Ballinger's hagiography have, is the cult within a cult of the Featured Article gang, even though Balligner isn't one. It might as well be though. One compelling argument they have, is that "quality" articles do not feature "controversy" sections. The content gets woven into the article. This is what is allowing them to ironically dump the negative content far out of the way of details of her Career, under Reception, and only after all the glowing content.

Wikipediocracy only single out Sslivers for scrutiny. Obvious fanboy he may be, and that is why people should be far more interested in the conduct of SchroCat, who is clearly only in this fight because he thinks he is standing up for Wikipedia's editorial standards.

Which is all well and good, but since he is a fully paid up member of the Eric Corbett gang, his main weapons are hostility and intellectual dishonesty. Never has someone looked more hypocritical than SchroCat lecturing others about the need to comment on content not editors. He must be acutely aware of how many eyes are eventually going to be on this issue, since his usual aggression has been tempered to a mere arrogant bluster. Tim Riley is there too, a long standing problem with the Corbett gang being tag teaming, as they follow each other around offering unflinching supporting to each other's arguments in a clear quid pro quo arrangement.

Wikipediocracy says nothing about these aspects of how Wikipedia editors are successfully whitewashing Ballinger's career and ensuring she can bilk as much money as she can before it all comes crashing down, because these are all methods of collaboration and editing that they approve of.

Wikipediocracy stand for a Wikipedia where the Corbetts, SchroCats and Rileys are elite because they say they are. They stand for a Wikipedia where elites are a thing. They stand for a Wikipedia where this comment is legitimate.....
It’s a grey area with WP:BLPs, where the policy prefers information is left out until it’s solid, rather than taking a punt with a caveat. Don’t forget this is supposed to be an encyclopaedia, not a news ticker, so if the information is a little behind the times then it’s not a flaw. - SchroCat (talk) 06:08, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
The only grey area on Wikipedia, is that reliably sourced information such as this.....
As fans continue to grapple with their feelings, some brands that partnered with Ballinger are distancing themselves. TMZ reported last week that two brands, ZocDoc and skincare company OneSkin, had cut ties with Ballinger.

ZocDoc confirmed to NBC News that it was pulling its ads from Ballinger’s podcast, Relax! OneSkin did not respond to a request for comment from NBC News.
...is inadmissible for INSERT ANY REASON YOU LIKE when the BLP is about someone Wikipedia editors like, perhaps a lot, but if it's someone they hate, well, in it goes, no questions asked.


As NBC News notes, this isn't some new controversy that has just broke. Negative stories about Ballijger have been circulating for years.....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... ideos.html

So Wikipediocracy have some FUCKING NERVE telling us THRRE YEARS LATER that, hey guys, these Wikipedia people seem intent on whitewashing this internet celebrity's reputation.

Wikipediocracy are a threat to children as much as Wikipedia is. This case is not much different to the Marek Kukula problem, which whether they like it or not, is never going away. According to Wikipedia, Kukula is an upstanding citizen, someone whose YouTube videos you would be happy for your child to engage with. According to the internet, Kukula is a convicted consumer of child pornography. According to Wikipedia, Ballinger is a great role model and there is little reason to not want your children from becoming fans of her work, or even emulate her career. The internet knows different, and has done for years.

Arguably people like Ballinger are a product of twenty plus years of people not being held accountable for what they do online, the sheer ease with which they can ensure their public image and the private reality can be kept separate, for nakedly capitalist reasons. Not a new problem, but a serious issue given the deep penetration of the internet into the lives of children. Wikipedia has been the shining turd on the hill in this Age of Irresponsibility.

In these fucked up times, being a breakout internet celebrity is more important than being the Astronomer Royal. Only one of these people ever had state sanctioned access to your kids for being a worthwhile role model, and it sure as shit 'ain't Ballinger. Yes, Wikipedia being able to whitewash Ballinger is a serious issue. But despite what they are claiming now, this is a situation that is in no small part down to the historical and indeed current activities of Wikipediocracy themselves.

They most likely only ran with this because they have some reason to need to remove Sslivers from Wikipedia. Once you understand why he chose to keep his allegations out of the public eye, untested in the court of public opinion much less an actual court, you understand everything there is to know about Wikipedia and the people who make it what it is.

Moderator note: This post has been shortened to be more readable, the original version can be found here.

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Re: Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

Post by ericbarbour » Sun Jun 25, 2023 9:41 pm

They mentioned Ssilvers. A name I've seen before.

Because tarantino doxed his ass in 2015......

You ALL should read the entire Tara Teng thread. It's a master class in how a WP administrator (David "Neelix" Purdy) can get away with indulging his COI and sick tendencies for years. And when you look into their histories, you find other creepy older men/paid editors like Ssilvers. (There's always a Wikipediocracy tax, a bunch of nitwit Wikipedians showed up to limply defend Neelix and Co.)

Neelix was dragged to Arbcom several months later. He quickly resigned adminship and bailed out of WP so it led nowhere. BUT HE RETURNED. And in 2021 he was blocked for sockpuppetry on some of the same articles he'd obsessed over before. And he STILL has "supporters" in there. As usual.

You can't keep a Wiki-Asshole down.

And in a SANE world Samuel Silvers would have been blocked from Wikipedia already. This is not a sane world.

Tarc did those WikiFucks a favor by pointing this out. He will not be thanked.

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Re: Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

Post by Boink Boink » Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:34 am

Neelix was an equally grave and hilarious example of Wikipedia's irresponsible handling of serious issues. Neelix was clearly mentally ill, the very last thing Wikipedia should have done was subject them to a very public, very brutal humiliation, especially since their real world identity was known.

Just as an example, and there are many, Neelix was made an Administrator in March 2011, even though there was already this pretty good evidence he was unfit to serve, as recent as April 2010.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... April_2010

Rather incredibly, even though he literally drew attention to it himself in A3, absolutely nobody discusses it.

It's actually quite HILARIOUS to see Wikipediocracy members and Wikipedia Administrators like Boing!, Mason/28Bytes and NewYorkBrad offering support by explicitly saying they saw no red flags and asserting Neelix had great experience and was fully qualified.

It is nobody else's fault bar every single Administrator and Arbitrator that by 2015, it was inconceivable to all involved in the car crash official responses of this scandal exploding in their faces, that a situation like Neelix had IAR written all over it. Emergency desysop, block and lock, and engage in private over email. As we can see, it would have become quickly apparent Neelix was not where he needs to be, and should never edit Wikipedia ever again.

The problem is his ability to hide in plain site by having a superficial ability, and an aversion to conflict with the big beasts, meaning he could get away with spectacularly innapprorpriate editing, displaying epic levels of poor judgement at a very fundamental level, all of which made it hardly surprising he went on to do things like mass create inappropriate redirects and make involved blocks.

It has become far easier to desyop, since that is a rather technical matter, and satisfies Wikipedian's need for blood lust. It has become far easier to restrict certain editing rights, for the same reason. It is as hard as ever to address a matter of competency in an editor who has superficial skills.

This is why at the conclusion of that complete shit show, INCREDIBLY, Neelix emerged as an editor. Chastened, for sure, but clearly not as much as many might have assumed, precisely because if they had done a proper job, the inevitable conclusion that his lack of recognition and contrition was not mere pride but literal incapacity, the manifestly right conclusion, would have been reached.

Neelix was crucified publicly and dealt with so inadequately that that there was absolutely no surprise he simply retired and then returned as a SOCK. Who else but Wikipedia gives a straight up literal idiot like Davey2010 an actual say in what should happen to a deeply troubled individual like Neelix? If he had any sense of what happened, which is debatable, he would feel aggrieved.

Wikipedia is still the Wikipedia of Neelix. It is still quite easy to hide in plain sight. Red flag issues are still missed for years and then handled with incredible irresponsibility.

The only change is that Wikipediocracy is now a full and willing participant in deflecting blame away from the root causes of such scandals, because it would be absolutely unbearable to those cult defending bastards that the whole rotten edifice could come crashing down before their eyes.

Moderator note: This post has been shortened to be more readable, the original version can be found here.
Last edited by Bbb23sucks on Sun Jul 02, 2023 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

Post by wexter » Mon Jun 26, 2023 1:44 pm

Purdy, Neelix identifies himself as a

Christian academic librarian ... engaged in social justice, ...


https://www.crandallu.ca/staff/david-purdy/
https://twitter.com/davidmarkpurdy?lang=en

He was "manipulating" Wikipedia in an effort to advance his views on religion and women.

Manipulating Wikipedia to an agenda is systemic.

"How is this (social justice) knight different from every other knight?"

The person is different, the agenda is different, but the platform is the same.

With AI the downsides of Wikipedia are going to be replaced by the downsides of central control of information via Colossus and the Forbin project.
“This is the dawning of the age of Colossus (where peace is compulsory, freedom is forbidden, and Man’s greatest invention could be Man’s greatest mistake).”
Wikipedia - "Barely competent and paranoid. There’s a hell of a combination."

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Re: Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

Post by Boink Boink » Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:18 am

"Giraffe stapler" wrote:I have watched a total of two Colleen Ballinger videos (and zero MIranda Sings videos). My understanding of that particular accusation comes from what she said, which is that she sent new, unworn bra and panties to a fan. Which is a bit different from used panties. She was giving them away, the fan asked for them, and she sent them. All in public. The fan was a minor, so it's not a great look, but I don;t actually see anything wrong with it. Again, that's what she said, so please correct me if I got it wrong.
There's a whole lot wrong with it, and it has everything to do with the fact this wierd shit happens in the context of public interactions between a YouTube "star" and an under-age "fan".

Because of who she is, what she is a product of, there is literally no part of Ballinger that questions whether or not she should be sending lingerie to a minor as a joke and/or because he asked her to. There is no context outside of this wierd symbiotic relationship of fandom and the whole nonsense of gifting/unboxing as entertainment, where people wouldn't view that as deeply disturbing behaviour.

She quite literally sent lingerie in the mail to a minor. The facts are not disputed.

As anyone can see, she is only questioning it now because she is losing sponsors. She probably still doesn't even actually understand what she did or why it is wrong, and the words of her apology were probably written for her by a reputation management consultant.

There is a reason why Ssilver is gleefully parroting the Ballinger narrative that she's the real victim here because she's a good person, a mother of three children, and she's never been a child abuser or a a groomer, and the people attacking her are haters who are only trying to boost their own profiles.

Silver lives in a world where it is only the law that decides whether something is innappropriate. It is a deeply immature mindset. It also rather helpfully illustrates what is happening here. If you substitute "lingerie" for "liquor", then by Ssilver's logic, Ballinger has seriously crossed a line. Makes no real sense at all.

Adults are not children. The law doesn't exist to act as some kind of substitute for an adult not having the good sense to know right from wrong, appropriate from inappropriate.

The law is an ass, precisely because there is no equivalent to revoking the liquor license in the weird world of YouTube content creation. You can't revoke Ballinger's YouTube license or send her on a fandom interactions awareness course.

It's a sad state of affairs where the most generous interpretation of this incident is to think that because Ballinger's entire career and perhaps even a fairly good chunk of her sense of self worth is tied up in the heads of minors, she has herself regressed to a point where she thinks and acts like a minor without realising it, and she quite literally needs the social feedback of Doctor Internet or just plain financial reality to be able to reflect on her own behaviour.

Unsurprisingly, over at Wikipedia, Schrocat continues to be in lock step with Ssilvers, and he doesn't even have the excuse of being a fan. He is merely (ab)using Wikipedia policy in the way he has always done, and which the people of Wikipediocracy had always found to be acceptable, because they have never really ever possessed the maturity to know right from wrong either.

It is wrong that Ballinger's biography is minimising and compartmentalising the issues with fandom and has which are being reflected by reliably sourced interest. It is wrong that the narratives being put out there by Ballinger to avoid having to take ownership of her behaviour like a mature adult, are such a dominant factor in how Wikipedia debates the future content of this biography.

It all happens because Wikipedia as an exercise in editorial judgement, is tailor made for immaturity, and indeed promotes and protects those literal children and the manchildren who are gifted enough to be able to emulate adult speech and thoughts without ever truly understanding it.

This is not about child abuse, this is not about grooming, this is about an adult not having the good sense to know she is not the friend and peer of these minors who grew up idolising her, and that being the very best interpretation of her missteps, since there are far worse ways to view it.

Put the lingerie incident with the others, and the pattern is clear. Wikipedia choosing to insert itself between the editorial decisions of journalists to give that pattern a name, parasocial, and the people who arguably are in most need of a reality check regarding their warped relationship with YouTube stars, the fans and their no doubt entirely clueless parents, is a bad thing.

Wikipedia's greatest crime of course is that is already too late. Wikipedia was a willing bystander and promoter of the cult of YouTube, allowing this exact sort of vastly detailed greatly fawning biography to become the number one Google result, for the entire childhoods of the real victims, who are now only questioning what the fuck It was all about because they are now adults.

Wikipedia is if anything, a co-conspirator now. The increasingly aware youth are turning away from Wikipedia as a brand, and it is surely because of a greater awareness of shit like this. Wikipedia has had to turn to Google for direct financial assistance, and Google has quite happily become a larger donor and valued customer of Wikipedia's for profit arm, Enterprise. Google of course owns YouTube.

Maybe it would be different if the world's largest and most well known Wikipedia criticism site was capable of doing its job, but alas, they have different priorities.

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Re: Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

Post by ericbarbour » Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:34 am

she certainly has big teeth and a lot of lipstick....she posted this yesterday and already has 4 million views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKMnyMYIMo
top comment:
this is so painfully millenial
PS this "story" is also hilariously PETTY.

Remember that in Japan there are VENDING MACHINES THAT SELL USED PANTIES
AND SOME POOR WOMEN ARE PAID TO WEAR THEM (probably not paid enough)
used-panty-machine.jpg
used-panty-machine.jpg (66.75 KiB) Viewed 1898 times

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Re: Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

Post by Boink Boink » Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:35 pm

The gold standard of reliable sources......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66051531
YouTube star Colleen Ballinger has addressed accusations of toxic relationships with fans by posting a video in which she defends herself in a song while playing the ukulele.

.......

Last week, Rolling Stone reported that dozens of fans said they had been "bullied, intimidated, and embarrassed by Ballinger and members of her team".

In her video, she said people had been saying things that "aren't quite true".

........

However, her response, and the unconventional nature of a musical video, did not appease her following. Many on social media criticised and ridiculed its apparent flippancy and lack of sincerity.
Wikipedia? Not so much.

Ssilvers keeps banging on about the ten year test.

I wonder if these nutjobs ever contemplate whether in 60? years time this person will even rate an obituary.

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Re: Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

Post by Boink Boink » Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:35 am

Wow. I only just realised there was coverage like this available....

https://time.com/6286635/colleen-ballin ... ntroversy/

It is now beyond clear that SSlivers needs to be page banned for extreme POV pushing and SchroCat needs to be page banned for taking an absurdly cautionary view of BLP.

Wikipedia always gets these situations wrong, preferring to lock the article rather than remove the editors who are obviously not following policy in good faith.

It is absolutely no surprise that this BLP currently (and probably never will) reflect the content of sources like that. Compare and contrast.....
Wikipedia wrote:The video received negative comments.[203][206]
TIME Magazine, Entertainment / Internet Culture sections wrote:The response to her video, which racked up more than 2 million views in less than 24 hours, was swift and negative. ..... Many criticized her decision to sing the apology and play a ukulele because they felt it minimized the allegations levied against her.
Note there have been edit wars over inclusion of "ukelele".

For all their noise, it is abundantly clear Ssilvers and SchroCat are not paying attention to reliably sourced information like this......
Ballinger says her team advised her not to respond to the allegations, but that they never told her she couldn’t sing. The creator then begins strumming a ukulele and singing a song about the “toxic gossip train” and how people “made up rumors for clout.” Ballinger also says “I’m not a groomer, I’m just a loser,” adding that the only thing she’s ever groomed were her cats.
The only way Ballinger is a victim here, is by virtue of her own immaturity. It is of course not Wikipedia's place or the intent of BLP to protect adults from the negative consequences of their immaturity.

Wikipediocracy has of course lost interest, even though things have now reached the point where this could form the basis of an AN/I report on Ssilvers that charges him with gatekeeping this article precisely for the reason that source outlines is a good explanation for why it's taken this long for these things to come to light and the bizarre way they are coming to light now - fandom.

It would (should) of course be easy to make the case Ssilvers is a fan and fuck him off. Just a matter of presenting the overwhelming evidence and seeing his laughable response.

Making the case that Schrocat is a toxic wikilwayer whose arrogance, hypocrisy, temper and love of conflict make him completely unsuitable to be a Wikipedia editor, however, is very difficult. In large part because this is exactly the kind of asshole Wikipediocracy like to see in an editor.

He is one of the last surviving members of the Eric Corbett gang. A toxic legacy that lives on and on.

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Re: Wikipediocracy's one sided treatment of Wikipedia's one sided treatment of a creepy YouTube star

Post by rubricatedseedpod » Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:07 am

SchroCat is a needless bastard on talk pages. WPO doesn't even seem to like him. He edit-warred to keep bloody Shakespearean grammar on Boulton and Park. I predict he gets sanctioned within the next few months.
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