Midsize Jake

For serious discussion of the "major" forum for Wikipedia criticism and how it fails.
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Graaf Statler
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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by Graaf Statler » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:01 am

I'm not trying to argue that the United States is somehow more important than the rest of the world in general, but the fact remains that (for good or ill) the WMF primarily operates out of the USA. If the US government quashes the truth defence, rewrites/repeals Section 230, and/or imposes some sort of securitarian censorship regime, that's going to mean some big changes in Wikiland. And all of those things will go through the Supreme Court.

In general you does, because you think America is the centre of the universe, but that is not where it is about. It is about your wiki imperialism based on lies and trolling and I think it is very easy to blame Trump when things are going wrong and out of hands, isn't it Jake?
And shouldn't it not a better idea if the democrats had a better candidate in 2020 than to blame Trump for there one stupidity Jake? Because the democrats the ones who have created Trump themself! Live with it! They have created there own demons, and now they have to pay the bill.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:43 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:Perhaps.... or, he could be outsourcing the prose to a team of highly-motivated professionals, all paid by the word and based in various strategically-located secret locations scattered all across the globe, working as one single entity in furtherance of an inconceivably elaborate agenda. All while Mr. Nest sits in the center of a complex web of intrigue, spinning plans within plans, machinations within machinations, preparing his vast army of minions for the final apocalyptic confrontation in the Great Global Information War against the ancient, unseen diabolical enemy that threatens to destroy us all.

That might explain a lot of what we've been seeing, at least.

What do you think, Jake. The internet is clearly growing up, it becomes an established medium, is there a change you grow up too? Because it is about time.

Times have changed, Jake, live with it. I always compare it with John R. Brinkley who used the leak of regulation for his strange practice. Are you really so naive to think you can troll the good times back, Jake? Just forget it Jake. There is not a single change that will happen, no matter what your fans and sect members tell you.

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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by ericbarbour » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:57 am

Whatta stupid thread. The Great American Empire has been declining for 30+ years and they want to squawk TRUMPTRUMPTRUMP. Still think the last president this county had who possessed some "qualms" was Carter. Ever since Reagan it's been lies and more lies, Democrat or Republican.

And the screaming about "the new fascism" is insulting. The USA has ALWAYS had a tendency toward banana-republicanism and crackpot right-wing ideas. Whatever remains of the "left" in this country seems to spend most of their time whining on the internet about fascism. Not actually doing anything.

(Dammit this forum needs a built-in shrug smiley.)

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LargelyRecyclable
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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by LargelyRecyclable » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:04 am

ericbarbour wrote:And the screaming about "the new fascism" is insulting. The USA has ALWAYS had a tendency toward banana-republicanism and crackpot right-wing ideas.


I don't know, you could make that argument for much of the 19th century but the rise of the institutional technocracy in the civil service and federal law enforcement, and the expanded power of the judiciary, created a pretty "banana-free" government for most of the 20th century. Sure, you had some uncomfortably autonomous actors in that apparatus, like J. Edgar Hoover and James Angleton, but the robustly professional and non-partisan nature of the civil service in the 20th century was one of the United States' greatest accomplishments. Now, of course, we've sort of come full circle over the past 30 years, but that's something different.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by Graaf Statler » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:44 am

Midsize Jake wrote:Well, I figured I should...

I mean, as far as this particular exchange goes, I'm much more inclined towards Mr. CrowsNest's opinions regarding Wikipedia's effect on the viability of "knowledge work" and the availability of writer/editor jobs in the economy than RfB's. This is partially because I myself have been affected by this - IOW, I felt that I was essentially forced to become a programmer when I would have preferred to work my way up in reference publishing, even though it was never going to be anywhere near as lucrative as programming ended up being. But for all intents and purposes, that option was just completely eliminated, mostly by Wikipedia - and the defenses often expressed by Wikipedians when this is claimed to be a bad thing strike me as rather glib, to say the least.

Also, there's a difference between "having absolute certainty that anything you say is correct" and "reacting very badly when someone you don't respect disagrees with you." The latter, while still problematic for forum admins, is less narcissistic. (FWIW.)

No Jack, it is absolute not problematic for forum admins. But the whole point is you are not a skilled forum admin, you are a wiki POV pusher. Because your form of neutrality is every opinion has the same value and that is the base of the wiki philosophy.
And in this way you fail every time both as a forum admin and as well as someone who is not telling the true because it is complete clear you are close connected to the wiki mouvement. (I don't wat to use the word lier.)

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by Graaf Statler » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:59 pm

PS Jake, serious comments I place here. As a quote.

From anyone, it doesn't matter if I agree or not, without any comment from my side. But your look ha ha, look how funny I am comments not.
So, if you want at least to look like forum admin, and not as a narcissistic fool please leave the crap. Thank you for your understanding.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:13 am

Midsize Jack wrote:
I think I've read you write that you've never contributed to Wikipedia. That seems quite strange given what you say about your desire to publish/edit/write reference works. Was it just because the logiciels ate up all your free time, rather than giving you more of it?



The amount of free time I had during any given period varied based on things like deadlines, the complexity of whatever project I was working on, who else was working on it, etc. But that had very little to do with why I decided (almost immediately upon seeing it in mid-2002) that I didn't want to be involved in any way with Wikipedia. At first it was because it just looked like a bad idea and I didn't think it would last, and of course I didn't want to do something for free that I'd previously been paid for. A couple of years later it had grown considerably, but it was also ripe for parody, so I did the parody instead because I knew I'd be better at it. And then I got attacked for doing the parody, or so I thought (they had actually mistaken me for someone else). The way they behaved whilst attacking me (this would have been Dave Gerard and a couple of his pals) reminded me very strongly of cult behavior as well as organized character assassination, both of which I detest, and soon enough that led me to Wikipedia Review, where the very same person they mistook me for made me an admin (along with Hersch and Poetlister) because he was losing interest in the whole thing.

More importantly, throughout that period of time I was getting more interested in the psychological angle(s) behind Wikipedia, and that's really what cemented my long-term resolve to never register an account or even make an IP edit - I'm not a psychologist, but if I were, I'd want to maintain some distance from the subjects, and once I'd settled on that approach I realized there were other advantages to it, which is why I've kept it up to this day.


One of the strangest thinks I have noticed is there is a huge different if you are involved in the project or not. You start to believe in the project, but the longer you have left it the more you understand how foolish it is.

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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:49 am

So what's Wikipedicoracy then? A place where fellow studiers of the cult can interact and exchange findings, or a place where he can interact with the cult members for the purposes of study? Everything suggests the latter.

He bans people who want no part of Wikipedia except to study it from a distance, while encouraging and protecting the cult members. He lets the cult members discuss what they want, while stopping people who want them to discuss things which are relevant to other people's studies. He forbids anyone disturbing the mental state of the cult members by telling them the nature of their reality.

Other than the huge ethical violation, there's nothing inherently wrong with running a forum as little more than a honey pot for wiki-addicts so you can personally study them. Except, of course, the fact HE NEVER PUBLISHES ANY OF HIS RESULTS.

Worse, he gets the patients to publish their thoughts, as if the crazed ramblings of the cult members are useful to anyone wanting to study Wikipedia. Is this one of his therapies?

Fuck him.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:22 pm

CrowsNest wrote:So what's Wikipedicoracy then? A place where fellow studiers of the cult can interact and exchange findings, or a place where he can interact with the cult members for the purposes of study? Everything suggests the latter.

He bans people who want no part of Wikipedia except to study it from a distance, while encouraging and protecting the cult members. He lets the cult members discuss what they want, while stopping people who want them to discuss things which are relevant to other people's studies. He forbids anyone disturbing the mental state of the cult members by telling them the nature of their reality.

Other than the huge ethical violation, there's nothing inherently wrong with running a forum as little more than a honey pot for wiki-addicts so you can personally study them. Except, of course, the fact HE NEVER PUBLISHES ANY OF HIS RESULTS.

Worse, he gets the patients to publish their thoughts, as if the crazed ramblings of the cult members are useful to anyone wanting to study Wikipedia. Is this one of his therapies?

Fuck him.

The ethical site, the huge ethical violation is of course the problem. And a dilemma too. Because, the first world war was a The Cave of Wonders for brain research. And I don't want to end up in Godwin, but there are more examples. Because, wikipedia and the critical fora are of course a goldmine for researchers.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Midsize Jake

Post by Graaf Statler » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:20 am

Midsize Jake wrote: I doubt there's any way to discuss Wikipedia in even a moderately critical way and allow Wikipedians to contribute to the discussion that would allow anyone involved to be truly happy. The best we can usually hope for is something like "mildly irritated," IMO. (Personally, I'm completely miserable, but I manage somehow - mostly by listening to old Smiths albums.)

Remember, Wikipedia isn't supposed to be a nice subject; it's actually frustrating, corrosive, deleterious, and literally blistering with negativity. You have to accept that going in, I'm afraid.

Well... needless to say, I hope you don't do that, as I (for one) have always found your posts to be interesting, informative, insightful, and various other adjectives beginning with the letter "I." Also, you're right about Mr. Anroth, he can be kind of a jerk sometimes, if not all the time. Having said all that, I would suggest you use the more common term "rage-quit," because "hysterical unsub" is a unique phrase that could be used to find you (via Google, etc.) on other forums that you might want to disassociate yourself from in future...?

Anyway, in my opinion is what you are doing terrible wrong, Jake. Giving corrupt wikipedians and addict asholes a nice, warm nest with your muting and placing topics in private fora.
I admit a real critical forum change in a empty echo chamber, but to create a extention of the wikipedia Village Pump is also not any solution. You solve nothing at the end, and you are only give the impression Wikipedia is a good thing to them.

And I don't know if there had been any difference if Erika had been a man. I think not, because I am not better treated than she is.
Because it is about if you fit in there philosophy of not, and not about your gender. And if you don't fit in it at the moment you confronted them with there lousy wiki system they start to turn themself against you and start to block you.
It is always the same old wiki story, they try to discipline you in there crazy way of thinking. And that is the same impression what you are giving them with your approach, you are giving them the impression what they are doing is right.

Or they run away just like the coward Randy did when he found out he was here on his own without you, uncle Jake to protect him. Because I have not treated Tim unfair. And if I did is Tim welcome to explane to me where I was unfair to him.

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