The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Because no one else is doing it--not even the media.
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The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by ericbarbour » Wed May 24, 2017 12:25 am

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... am-spying/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pu ... f6a5496db1

The ruling revives a lawsuit that had been killed by a federal judge in Maryland, who had ruled that Wikimedia could not prove when the surveillance was taking place and so had not convinced the judge that it should be allowed to sue over possible harm.

Because Wikimedia engages in over a trillion international communications a year with individuals in virtually every country on earth, the appeals judges ruled, it is plausible to conclude that some of those communications have been collected by the NSA.

The three-judge panel agreed with the lower court that eight other plaintiffs in the case, including the Nation magazine and Amnesty International, do not have standing to bring a case. Those plaintiffs had argued that, through Upstream, the NSA is “intercepting, copying, and reviewing substantially all” text-based communications that leave and enter the country.


This is one of the things that consumes WMF funds. Their massive internet traffic, plus Snowden leaks, are the "proof" that the NSA is collecting at least some of Wikipedia's traffic info. And I can practically guarantee, without any proof of my own, that the WMF was pushed into pursuing this lawsuit partly by insiders who want to edit / control Wikipedia content without the NSA (or anyone else!) knowing what they are doing.

WP dirty tricks are now a part of legal precedent in US courts. And if they win the primary suit (which is kind of doubtful in the present political climate), it will further justify their inherently secretive and abusive internal culture.

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Re: The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by Flip Flopped » Wed May 24, 2017 2:22 am

I wonder if the other plaintiffs had persuaded the WMF to participate in the lawsuit since they have standing.

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Re: The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by ericbarbour » Wed May 24, 2017 8:12 pm

Flip Flopped wrote:I wonder if the other plaintiffs had persuaded the WMF to participate in the lawsuit since they have standing.

Quite possible and we will probably never know for certain. The little world of tech nonprofits is insular and secretive--as I keep pointing out (and tech people keep autistic-screeching at me how full of shit I am).

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Re: The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by ericbarbour » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:37 am

https://www.wired.com/story/wikimedia-n ... y-lawsuit/

On the one hand, I would like to see the ACLU and WMF embarrass the NSA, as it is a corrupt and incompetent monster, as well as being incredibly secretive.

On the other hand, neither the WMF nor the NSA can claim a "moral high ground" when it comes to surveillance and other kinds of technology abuse--because they have both operated like religious cults, squelched dissent from within the ranks, and lied to the public. So they are really not all that different.

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Re: The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:05 am

ericbarbour wrote:On the one hand, I would like to see the ACLU and WMF embarrass the NSA, as it is a corrupt and incompetent monster, as well as being incredibly secretive.

It is, it is Eric. But I can't say enough what a wonderful job they did to protect us from terroristic attacks in Europe. Because they really did. And that is also worth to mention, they are not only monsters, that is a wrong attitude. If NSA and the secret services hadn't be there, I think Europe was now a extreem dangers place.
And this is a objective observance because I don't like totally controlled states at all. But everywhere where I am driving now in Europe, even in small city's, are camera's in the street. And nobody here in Europe is protesting because we understand there is no other way. It is a a devils dilemma.

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Re: The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:07 pm

Another example of why the pretence of living under a formal written Constitution is a joke. Wikipedia's articles practically glorify this worthless piece of paper, and are no doubt being mercilessly updated to inform of the latest episode in that soap opera. So much for their educational mission.

WMF wrote:The Wikimedia projects can only thrive when users are confident that their rights to privacy and free expression will be respected."
And where might a user of Wikipedia find these rights formally granted to them? The WMF's privacy policy is a mess, and the idea you can express yourself freely on any single page of their tangled web of websites, has got to be some kind of sick joke.

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Re: The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by AndrewForson » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:40 pm

Indeed. They might start by not censoring the comments on their own blog, or their own mailing lists. There is ample evidence that comments there are rejected simply because they are critical of the Foundation.

It may be worth looking at their new 2018-9 Annual Plan. Among other delights, it calls for a near 50% increase in external legal fees, to over $1 million, out of the $93 million that they expect to raise. Probably most of that million goes on this quixotic case.

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Re: The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by sashi » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:29 pm

CrowsNest wrote:Another example of why the pretence of living under a formal written Constitution is a joke


I assume you are referring most particularly to the 4th amendment talk about "unreasonable search & seizure" of used tissue-texts which folks have half-wittingly littered (the internet / their mailboxes) with.

You're going to put a whole contingent of philosophers & diplomats out of work if you argue Constitutions are a bad thing. In fact, putting on the mask of the KoolAid drinker I once may have been, I see a need for something resembling a wiki-constitution.

The Constitution of the 5th Republic (France) was written in 1958 and one issue in the 2017 election was "deleting" it and starting over -- especially, but not exclusively from (what's left of) the left. The Constitutional Counsel here in France is much less apt, as a result, to try to divine the "original intent" of fetishized author-heroes from eight generations ago who conveniently obviated any need for living citizens to assemble and periodically reconstitute sovereign bodies. This is the only hope for (what's left of) the left in the US at this point, given the success of the SCOTUS coup. (At least get the ERA written in... seriously...) </end rant from behind the veil of a KoolAid drinker>

Donning the veil of a Kleenex-picker-upper-bot, I notice that in the Cooley LLP entry at en.wp the word firm occurs 27 times. Nine of the occurrences of the word are in the "lede". SPARQLing firm at kwikidata, I learn it is the opposite of flimsy and sometimes refers to an intelligence-gathering corps. </the scripted pointer writes, and halving wit, scrolls on ... sweet blips ... >

Meanwhile, the legal fiction of pseudonymous astro-turfers having "free speech" and "unreasonable search & seizure" protections with regard to their identifying IP data is an interesting question. If Arbitrary.Com judges like Gorilla Warfare, or Nuclear Warfare, or BongWarrior, or MongWarrior, and/or etc., should have their IP or RW identity half-wittingly "outed", the Wikipediants would swarm to their protection... according to WP and teh internets, the "doxx" is unreasonable (opposition re-)search. Neutrality is meant to be blind and neutered: genderless, classless, caste-less, odourless, personless, ... oh wait ... :?

(ps... no this is not an incitation to be violent with any agit-prop admins having appropriated the name Neutrality for their legal fictions.)

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Re: The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by AndrewForson » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:19 pm

I notice that a WMF posting on the subject repeats the lie that "Privacy is one of our core values".

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Re: The silly WMF lawsuit against the NSA gets a boost

Post by CrowsNest » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:33 am

A Wikipedia Constitution? I believe such a thing would plunge them even further into endless war.

:idea: :twisted:

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