"Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Because no one else is doing it--not even the media.
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Strelnikov
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"Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Post by Strelnikov » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:10 pm

.....by giving out their actual names, claims ex-Gawker site Jezebel:

https://jezebel.com/wikipedia-exposes-porn-performers-to-stalking-harassme-1839229067

Why? Anti-porn harassers and general Internet stalkery:

....Porn performers take stage names to protect themselves, from quote-quote “fans” and anti-porn zealots, whose purported moral oppositions to the industry can manifest into personal acts of aggression. For a performer, publication of a legal name can lead to anything from menacing phone calls to being unsafe at home. It can out performers to loved ones, put their family members at risk, and shut down job prospects outside of porn. It can mean having their children interviewed for four hours by CPS, as happened with the anonymous performer above.

Whether careless or knowing, Wikipedia and IMDb put performers at risk of abuse, harassment, stalking, and violence. They do so while hiding behind the shields of company policy, user generated content, and public information. That is to say: These sites dispassionately prize the integrity and consistency of their databases at the expense of the privacy and safety of human beings.


And Child Protective Services get involved in a form of "swatting": if the actress has a child, stalkers will call CPS claiming anything to get them to show up and yank the child away.

Last week, a porn performer had Child Protective Services show up unannounced at her front door after an anonymous caller falsely claimed she was throwing “swinger parties” in front of her children. The caller lacked the kind of intimate knowledge one would expect of someone who personally knew the performer, who uses a stage name. But they did have one crucial bit of information: her legal name.

The performer can’t know for sure who made the call, or why, but she guesses that it was someone who, as she put it, “disagreed with my line of work.” Similarly, she can’t know for sure where they got her legal name, allowing them to make the report, but she has a strong guess: Wikipedia. “They used that information to try to remove my children from my home,” she told me, speaking on condition of anonymity, out of fear that others might get the idea to make similar CPS calls.


The article brings up the case of porn director/actor Kayden Kross, whose real name was on Wikipedia for years until it suddenly vanished last month. You can still see her full name, name of her husband, and that she has one child - in the Google box when you use The Goog as a search engine.

Also the comments are charming:

pambeezly88
10/24/19 1:53pm

Many if not most people’s jobs are publicly available somewhere. Anybody who knows my name and location can pretty simply find out where I work and what my job title is. If your job is such that you don’t want people knowing who you are, perhaps you should be questioning your life choices.

(The "88" is a dead giveaway that something is wrong, because it's online code for "Heil Hitler". Pam Beesly was a character on the American version of The Office.)

Mariaespinosat to pambeezly88
10/24/19 2:05pm

bingo

(This person "mariaespinosat" shows up again in the thread - I thinks it's a male troll in female garb.)

Hiemoth
10/24/19 1:33pm

I’ve never truly understood the seeming hatred and loathing some have towards adult industry performers, especially the ones who just seek to destroy them like this.

I mean, yeah, I can imagine the weak explanation would be how doing this they discouraging people from entering the industry or making it clear it isn’t a valid choice, but none of that really works if you think about it even a little. It’s just really sad and destructive.


mariaespinosat to Hiemoth
10/24/19 2:05pm

If you choose to get fucked on camera, don’t expect to stay anonymous. Don’t be a whore.

("Bingo" indeed.)

And it wouldn't be a G/O Media site without technical complaints:

The Bobby Drake Cometh to Tracy Clark-Flory (author of the article)
10/24/19 1:48pm

The autoplay videos need to go. We all understand your new corporate dick-for-brains are trying to destroy the company, but this is the fastest and most efficient way to bleed readership.


bathsaltsbeckydeuxthequickening to The Bobby Drake Cometh
10/24/19 2:37pm

Telling them is useless.

It’s their tech-averse management, full of old guys who think it’s still 2002, who are doing this.


herethereandeverywhere to bathsaltsbeckydeuxthequickening
10/24/19 6:54pm

Getting hard to leave comments too.


Kerberos824 to The Bobby Drake Cometh
10/25/19 9:39am

I have seen similar comments on Jalopnik receive responses from the author, who asked people to send emails to the writers complaining about the autoplay videos. The two authors in the comments also hated it, and that they were compiling complaints about it to give the new directors. It’s worth a shot.
Still "Globally Banned" on Wikipedia for the high crime of journalism.

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Re: "Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Post by Guido den Broeder » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:15 pm

Wikipedia harms lots of people, not just porn actors.

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Re: "Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Post by Kumioko » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:50 pm

Guido den Broeder wrote:Wikipedia harms lots of people, not just porn actors.

Yeah this is just one example but this happens all the time.
#BbbGate

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Re: "Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Post by Abd » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:34 am

Just on one point. With seven children, raised to tell the truth and not be ashamed of the truth, and the myriad situations that can arise, I have been reported to child protective services in two states on a number of occasions. I always welcomed them into my home, thanked them for their concern, allowed them to privately interview children involved, always accepted help (such as therapist referrals and other assistance), and had really excellent results.

While at one point an investigator (not an actual case worker) reacted to a messy apartment with a recommendation to yank custody of my kid (and the investigator actually lied to me), the actual case worker was far more supportive and headed that off. She knew that "messy" was not abusive, per se, and she knew that I was probably the best person on the planet to be handling that kid, with the issues she had. Long story, but her condition required expertise, and the therapists we saw were fascinated by what I had learned to do with her, that worked spectacularly. One wanted to write a book with me. There were many other occasions with other case workers and nothing else came close to a custody removal.

Once I got a call from a police officer, reacting to a complaint, and they *must* investigate all those, by law, so I got to have a very nice chat with her. I knew who it was the complainant, it was obvious. A complete nut case, and the officer more or less acknowledged it, "she's complained about others."

They know what they are doing, generally, and in the rare cases they don't, there are then options. Hostility and fear may make them suspicous. If you have something to hide, well, sorry, I can't predict a good outcome with the children.

I knew a woman who was supporting her child with income from "talk to a naked woman" in San Francisco. She was beautiful and smart and a very good mother. Also kind and thoughtful and did what she could to support her clients with useful conversation. I baby-sat for her on occasion. I doubt there would be any problem, unless, of course, "wild parties with the kid there." They will not yank custody from an unsupported allegation like that. They are far from stupid. Kids generally do best with their parents, not in foster care, which can be pretty bad, and they know that. If the parent has a problem, they will want to work with the parent. If a parent has a problem and denies it and gets angry with them, well, again, I would not promise a good outcome.

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Re: "Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Post by Strelnikov » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:49 am

Guido den Broeder wrote:Wikipedia harms lots of people, not just porn actors.


Yes, but with a porn actress, they are being chased by stalkers, moralist stalkers, and "incel"* stalkers. That's a lot of stalkers for a woman who just does a bodily function on camera, and sometimes only just appears nude for stills. American society, being endlessly prudish, treats these people like they sex criminals and all this stalking is an extension of that. Whether you like it or not, en.Wikipedia was started in the US and collectively designed by people who didn't think too deeply as to how the knowledge they posted would be used. IMDb won't list porn titles but it will have slots for individual films and the actors/actresses appearing in these films. That's why the real names end up in the Google box when you use that search engine. Nobody who plotted these websites out realized just why porn actors use pseudonyms, especially the women.


* "Involuntary celibate", an Internet thing that is its own giant can of worms, so let Natalie Wynn explain it.
Still "Globally Banned" on Wikipedia for the high crime of journalism.

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Re: "Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:39 am

Kumioko wrote:
Guido den Broeder wrote:Wikipedia harms lots of people, not just porn actors.

Yeah this is just one example but this happens all the time.
Thanks for this insightful comment.

:roll:

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Re: "Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:03 am

Well, as fun as it is to read negative stories about Wikipedia, for serious critics, there's not much worth saying about this unless/until is is actually confirmed the name came from Wikipedia, and why it was on Wikipedia. And for obvious reasons, those things are likely never going to be known.

All you can do is point out the general issues. By policy (and legal tradition) Wikipedia is definitely a place where it is easy to see cases where Wikipedians (and the Wikimedia Foundation) have decided it's worth exposing people to abuse in exchange for the integrity of their database, if not even higher fundamental principles. And rather obviously, if the exposure is at the very least legally justifiable, you can hardly blame Wikipedia alone for consequences like harassment and stalking. Thay can be blamed for giving it wider exposure of course, but that is hardly relevant in cases where people are actively seeking this information out to do bad things with it.

By policy however, it is certainly the case that Wikipedians (and the Wikimedia Foundation), can be persuaded not to publish publicly known details if there are good reasons not to (the wider exposure argument being one such reason). If that was the case here, and they did not prevail, actively or passively, well, it is certainly an issue that the debate around what those good reasons can be, where to draw the line, either in general or in specific cases, is sadly a closed shop, where only the established elements of the volunteer Wikipedia community seems to be allowed to have a say, and not even the Wikimedia Foundation or the Holy Founder himself Jimmy Wales have much pull.

And sadly it is definitely the case that to even attempt such a thing is to often mire yourself in a soul sucking pit of illogic, if not invite a self-defeating spectacle of controversy. Not a lot anyone can really do about that tbh, given America is a free country, where the same laws that allow them to do this, also allow people to abuse adult performers, and indeed allow people to be adult performer. You could try changing the culture of Wikipedia, make it kinder and smarter. But you will fail, for reasons that get documented in here all the time, reasons that no matter how cogent and well argued, simply see the die hard Wikipedians like Timothy Davenport respond with such well developed counter-arguments as "you're crazy!" etc.

By policy (and legal tradition) Wikipedia is also a place where something bad has to be published first, before they will do anything about it, even in the cases where it's immediate removal is absolutely what is supposed to happen (for example when a name that is not publicly known at all gets put on Wikipedia). And in practice, because Wikipedia's systems for detecting bad edits is not fit for purpose, it means the only sure fire way to ensure compliance, is to monitor your own Wikipedia biography continuously. Even then, because of what Wikipedia is, you can't be guaranteed that even swift removal ensures the information is gone.

The moral culpability for that obvious risk to people's safety is split three ways - the U.S. legal system that allows it, the Wikimedia Foundation that uses it to its advantage ("anyone can edit"), and the volunteer Wikipedians who go along with it (there's nothing to stop the volunteer community of the English Wikipedia adopting a safety first approach, and the Foundation is unlikely to overrule them if they did).

But like I said, without specifics, it really is hard to give an informed comment.

That's what a serious critic would say.

We can see what Kumioko said though. Useless fuck that he is. Remind me again, how do you intend promoting this site? Handing out T-shirts that say "I'm with stupid"? Don't even get me started on whatever the fuck it is Abd thought he was bringing to the conversation. Last I looked, we weren't in the business of general chat on societal issues.

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Re: "Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:09 am

Still I think they are both a victim of wikipedia and Kum simple doesn't understand that SanFanBan is also for his own protection.
Because Kum is much better off with his military wiki, his pension, his job and the rest of his life without wikipedia.

Guido is a total other cause, Guido couldn't get away from all the rants and dirty insinuations. In no way!

The best example is the failed arbcom elections of Drmies. Although I know Guido for years I had never heard before of this impeachment, it was total new for me.
There have in the past frictions between Guido and me for the simple reason I didn't understand what was going on. I have made therefore in public my excuses to him.

But imagine I hadn't understand it was a smear campagne maybe, almost for sure I had stept into it!
Without understanding what was really going on and special without checking the FACTS!

Because the facts where simple to find in public sources, my friends.....

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Re: "Wikipedia and IMDb endanger porn actresses".....

Post by ericbarbour » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:18 am

Do any of you realize HOW MANY TIMES Wikipedia insiders have used that wiki to take "revenge" on people they didn't like? I personally found at least 400 examples of it--and gave up counting because there were hundreds more. Much of it was targeted against hardcore Wikipedia critics like Daniel Brandt, journalists who wrote something less-than-complementary about Jimbo or Wikipedia, politicians they don't like, and so forth. Stierlitz has seen the book notes so he has SOME idea.

Would you like me to show you the shitstorms over the Brandt bio, the Wikipedia Review article, Rachel Marsden, etc? What little is left in their broken database, anyway.

And those are only the examples I could see. "Cabalists" probably pulled hundreds of other dirty tricks to shit on someone they disliked, and managed to cover it up completely by using sockpuppets or getting the edits rev-deleted. Not to mention the tens of thousands of edits that one guy -- David Gerard -- personally destroyed. Gerard is unquestionably out to "get" any number of people. Look thru RationalWiki for examples.

We will never know how many times this "Wiki-backstabbing" happened. You let autists and spergs and lunatics run an "encyclopedia thing", and this is exactly what you get. The porn-star bios are an obscure example of ruin they do indirectly--that, too, is an area that we know almost nothing about.

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