Denazification - What does it mean?

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wexter
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Denazification - What does it mean?

Post by wexter » Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:27 pm

The following is Wikipedia's limited commentary on the subject of Russian Denazification of the Ukraine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazific ... _of_Europe

Russian president Vladimir Putin used the pretext of "denazification" to launch the invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[102] The US Holocaust Memorial Museum and Yad Vashem condemned Putin's abuse of Holocaust history.[103][104][105]

The two sentence blurb is a total joke; and frankly its insulting.

What exactly does Denazification mean in Putin's context?

The press had ample time today to ask the Russian ambassador what exactly Denazifiction means; and there was no takers.

True or not Putin Clearly defined, in a casus belli, what he meant; in other words he provides a definition..

''The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kyiv regime. To this end, we will seek to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation.''

Wikipedia did not define the term only to say that "Putin is a bad man" misusing history.
There are multiple perspectives to consider. Wikipedia is incapable of neutrality and empty to alternate perspectives in fact and history.

The press did not ask; what would satisfy Denazification as a condition of peace.

Putin is in control of the narrative when he sets red-lines and through is casus belli. It would be advisable to listen to "your enemy."

To me, The nebulous demand means that Putin has to burn himself out.

I don't know why folks in the west are not demanding regime change.


From what I can tell the "Russian young folks" are just as clueless and goofy as their American counterparts. However, there does not seem to be support for a protracted war (or isolation from the west)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N917eVPyD4
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Re: Denazification - What does it mean?

Post by ericbarbour » Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:39 pm

Answer: IMO, this has nothing to do with "denazification". This crap was posted because the anonymous basement-dweller Wiki-Turds want to wipe their little bottoms on Putin's face. He is a corrupt pseudo-dictator and therefore they, "lovers of freedom and free speech" and such lies, hate him reflexively. They can't remove him from power and they can't shut him up, so this is all they can do. Wikipedia is the only place their rants can be "taken seriously".

His WP article has always been a battleground. For the past 3 weeks, the editwar has shifted into the highest stupid-gear. It is now 344k bytes, making it one of the longest biographies on WP. This ALWAYS happens when someone the Wiki-Fucks don't like manages to dominate the news cycle. When this idiotic invasion of Ukraine is over and Putin is dead (don't bet on him reaching his 80th birthday, and I wouldn't bet on his 75th!), his article will start to shrink.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vladimir_Putin

The edit history is full of the usual shrieky leftists and the usual Eastern-Europe/Russia editwar freaks. "Sticking to verifiable facts" is not enough.

https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/ ... imir_Putin

How did it look in 2003? Bad--and dismissive. As one would expect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... id=1652146

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Re: Denazification - What does it mean?

Post by wexter » Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:05 am

Answer: IMO, this has nothing to do with "denazification" <-I totally agree with you there.

The Russian propaganda seems to be pointing in the direction of Yushenko, and before that to Stepan Bandera.
The Russians are not fond of Poroshenko (and then there is all sorts of wild-west "Servant of the People" type internal corruption and politics)

It looks like Yanukovych might be waiting in the wings in Alexander Lukashenko or Erich Honecker style.
It does not matter to Putin if he kills folks he is claiming to "protect." Yanukovych and his election map might look like a compelling fantasy-endpoint based on some fantastical assumptions. It sort of sounds like the fallacy below;

“So we must be ready to fight in Vietnam," he famously announced, "but the ultimate victory will depend upon the hearts and the minds of the people who actually live there.” Johnson; better known as winning the hearts and minds of people by killing them.

See Kiev.


--(Having gone to school prior to the Soviet Collapse - I took two courses in Soviet History; two things from Soviet History come to mind; the Holodomor and the Soviet Diaspora)

https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodo ... =Holodomor

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Journal ... -Diaspora/

Image
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Re: Denazification - What does it mean?

Post by ericbarbour » Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:16 am

wexter wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:05 am
Yanukovych and his election map might look like a compelling fantasy-endpoint based on some fantastical assumptions.
You know better than most Americans. Ukraine, like all other former Soviet republics, has serious problems with election fraud. Although not as blatant and insulting as the "elections" in places like Belarus (who are currently helping the Russians with the invasion), or the "stans", maps like this are quite likely to be total nonsense. We will never know for sure.

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Re: Denazification - What does it mean?

Post by wexter » Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:43 am

"You know better than most Americans."

I actually traveled to a Soviet Satellite country when communism was breathing its last grasp of air as to get a first hand impression of things on the ground. I survived and returned with great stories and life experience. Compare to Molly White, not.



IMHO - primary source information gathering is the only was to go. Wikipedia hates primary source with a passion.


There is a reason these guys had to flee China as he was a great primary source; their day to day exploration of China was an intelligence gold mine; and thus dangerous to the CCP.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl7mAG ... s8rhhh8XZg
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChvith ... _19TjldMKw

PS: China might be supporting Russia today but will look to absorb parts of Siberia tomorrow.
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Re: Denazification - What does it mean?

Post by oranges33 » Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:48 pm

The lede on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin seems to be mostly positively biased until the last paragraph. Credits him for economic expansion, and takes him out of the picture for economic stagnation. And lol @ 51 pictures in article

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Re: Denazification - What does it mean?

Post by ericbarbour » Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:38 pm

wexter wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:43 am
There is a reason these guys had to flee China as he was a great primary source; their day to day exploration of China was an intelligence gold mine; and thus dangerous to the CCP.
I've been watching Winston's videos off-and-on for a long time, they were great valuable stuff. Honestly I am still amazed he didn't die in prison in Shanghai. China is simply doing the things other "great empires" did before: arrogance, lying, propaganda, and the blind support of a large population of nationalistic fools. Occasionally backed up by half-baked support from the PLA, a huge and yet quite incompetent and unreliable army.

I'm guessing it is what happens to a country with more than 5000 years of written history, tremendous overpopulation, pollution, lack of effective infrastructure support, corruption, ruthless competition, invading and being invaded, etc. etc. No matter what they do, the corruption is already baked in and any "Chinese empire" will not last very long. Probably a similar story for Russia--they really have less excuse for it because they have more natural resources and far less population. But who knows. It's all a big unfunny joke.

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Re: Denazification - What does it mean?

Post by wexter » Sat Mar 19, 2022 3:07 pm

The attached Youtube video gives some color into a perspective few Americans seem to access to.

If I am getting the video "Correct" which I doubt I am doing with any accuracy is; I think these are Chechen's from Georgia and they are talking about taking the fight to "nationalists" aka the Nazi tyrants who are taking a queue from Bandara (Who was born in a world which pre-dated the formation of Ukraine)

The "red green" I think is the Georgian flag.

I remember George Bush encroaching on Georgia with bases, and also bombings in Moscow (rail) or Grozny (stadium) originating from Georgia (South Ossetia) in 2004 Then the follow on Russian Invasion of Georgia in 2008 that was the dress rehearsal for today.

On August 8, 2008, Russian forces began the invasion of Georgia, marking the start of Europe’s first twenty-first century war. The conflict itself was over within a matter of days, but the repercussions of the Russo-Georgian War continue to reverberate thirteen years on, shaping the wider geopolitical environment.

The international reaction to Russia’s military campaign in Georgia was to prove remarkably muted, with Moscow suffering few negative consequences. On the contrary, EU leaders led calls for a ceasefire that appeared to favor Russian interests, while the US under the new Obama administration was soon calling for a reset in relations with the Kremlin.




https://www.history.com/news/russia-geo ... itary-nato



Глава региона отметил, что на подмогу к своим братьям из Чеченской Республики рвутся тысячи добровольцев. Каждый из них ценой своей жизни готов стоять на защите угнетенных бандеровцами жителей.

Новоприбывших встретил Адам Делимханов. Он ещё раз напомнил об истинной миссии российской стороны - положить конец тирании киевского режима, основательно уничтожить национализм и освободить из многолетнего заточения братский украинский народ.

«Сегодня принять участие в этой благородной миссии против националистов и шайтанов на Украину прибыл целый батальон добровольцев. Они рвутся в бой, желают как можно скорее оказаться в гуще событий. Я не перестаю восхищаться героизмом и мужеством наших ребят, их неукротимому желанию сражаться бок о бок со своими братьями в интересах нашей Родины. Совсем скоро эти отважные воины сотрут со страниц украинской истории это гнусное, мерзкое явление под названием "национализм", - написал Рамзан Кадыров.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qdPK-_pqd4


PS here is a primary source visit to Mariupol and 11 minutes in it gets very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phnpmotMusE
Wikipedia - "Barely competent and paranoid. There’s a hell of a combination."

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