Eastern European Warfare

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wexter
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:24 am

We are talking about a systemic and all encompassing concern;

No conflict of interest or narrative framing here (Trans advocacy as opposed to European Warfare) complete with the involvement and the follow on failure of the Wikipedia process (which consists of a books worth of gibberish 55,000 words!);


https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... &limit=500

An article in the Atlantic where Wikipedia renamed Gregory to Gloria Hemingway in January seems to be the lever for starting a Notice Board incident (very similar to the backwards looking European Warfare Arbitration)

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ ... es/672806/

Administrative Noticeboard incident - won't correct all the articles written to a narrative

"Advocacy editing by User:TheTranarchist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ranarchist

Complete with a personal "mission statement" on a talk page; Does this remind you of other editors? Tamzin?
I'm TheTranarchist. As you may have guessed from the portmanteau, I'm a trans woman and an anarchist. I believe all people should be free from hierarchical control and we should care for each other, rather than have our economy and society run on exploitation and oppression. I wear these on my sleeve since all writing is political and what we accept as common knowledge is political. That is to say, before accusing me of being political, ask what politics led to the status quo.

....

What sparked me finally joining Wikipedia was realizing the current state of articles surrounding transgender topics. Specifically, seeing that the Conversion therapy article made no references to transgender people, despite it having been defined for years to include us. Knowing firsthand how often trans kids or parents of trans kids come looking for information on Wikipedia, it's vital the information we provide is accurate. Trans children are not a modern invention and deserve care and support, and part of that is knowing their history. Trans kids should be able to know they exist and have existed. About their histories and their elders' organized struggle for a better world. And the history and present of the organized hate campaigns operating against us.

This applies generally, while my focus is on trans topics (having had to self-educate to justify my existence and wanting to help ease the burden of those who come after me), I want to help bring to light other neglected history as well. I believe the truth when simply presented will speak for itself: that greed and power corrupt and lead to terrible things, that cooperation and kindness are human and essential to our survival, and that all should be free. As such, I'm proud to collaborate and work with you all!

A Note to Transphobes
I've written articles on quite a few organizations and people who attack trans people, so I want to add a personal touch. Trans people and children exist. By any means necessary, we will fight those who work to harm us by attacking our rights and bodily autonomy. On Wikipedia, I feel no shame combatting your propaganda and exposing you, your claims are nonsense and disproven anyways, and luckily investigative journalism isn't completely dead so reliable sources tend to do the heavy lifting in showing how awful you are. Please enjoy knowing that trans people will continue to live and be born as long as humanity exists, and you'll be remembered as the hateful figures you are.
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:50 pm

Back to the same "Eastern European Warfare" offenders; they are busy at work "selling" their narrative; they don't like what is being said about a "Polish PM" in relation to the propaganda of "Jewish Collaboration in the Holocaust" so they are litigating a point in the kangaroo courts of notice boards.
The following is the offending statement as far as our narrative driven sociopaths are concerned;
"Though Germany was trying to kill all Jews in the Holocaust, a minority of Jews chose to collaborate with the Germans"
-The aforementioned statement provides contextual weighting which is something the antagonists don't want to have in issue framing.
We are looking at two editors accused of wrongdoing "visiting the crime scene" once again.
There are no reasons for these liars and propagandists to have "clean hands" by editing outside their conflict of interest.
--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:16, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
-- GizzyCatBella🍁 07:27, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _Holocaust
The platform and the foundation are circling the wagons around these bad players - it is much easier to to have outside enemies (and claim victimization) than it is to take responsibility.

In these kangaroo courts not all animals are created equally - the longer the abuse runs the sticker it tends to be. The algorithms keep short term vandals out and the process (allies, playing the system, press, or agenda) keeps long-term vandals in!
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:39 pm

Forensically Here we go again - years of spreading the word!

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... on=history

curprev 03:58, 28 July 2020‎ Piotrus talk contribs‎ 69 bytes +69‎ ←Redirected page to Collaboration with the Axis Powers#Jewish collaboration thank Tag: New redirect

Looking at the contribution histories of "Piotrus" on major articles there is Another single minded editor in the other direction;

https://www.wired.com/story/one-womans- ... wikipedia/
K.e.coffman, editor of vandal?
Post by Kumioko » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:27 pm

For some time now I have been aware of an editor on Wikipedia known as K.e.coffman, who on the face of it, seems to be a positive contributor and seems to be very active. When we dig a little deeper though and start doing some deeper analysis of their contributions some disturbing trends appears. This editor seems to have made a name for themselves as a "Nazi hunter" by eliminating or minimizing anything that appears to glorify the conduct of German soldiers during World War II. Now of course no one likes the Nazi's but Wikipedia is supposed to be unbiased. That means we don't favor either side, we merely write the articles with the information available and according to Wikipedia's notability criteria and try to make them as unbiased and neutral as we can within the sources we have. https://wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?t=216
Just making the point (that has been made here numerous times) that nobody "writing an encyclopedia" should be pursuing an agenda outside the core mission.

A responsible corporation (profit, non-profit) would hire an auditor to smoke this stuff out! You can find "Quote after Quote" of the Wikimedia Foundation returning problems to the unworkable processes of wikipedia."
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:40 pm

Ian Bremer just had this to say about the lab leak narrative which corresponds exactly into narrative framing regarding Covid on Wikipedia;

"This lab leak concept; was one that would get you banned on Social Media if you came out with it a year ago. and it just goes to show how you can have a dominant narrative that gets picked up politically and suddenly no one's allowed to ask questions anymore."

Wikipedia hastes having to answer hard questions about itself.


Presently - oh no the "current events tag" Is an Encyclopedia a 'news outlet?" Should an Encyclopedia have an opinion on anything?
"This article is about the hypothesis proposing SARS-CoV-2 came from a laboratory. For bioweapon conspiracy theories, see COVID-19 misinformation § Bio-weapon. This article documents a current event. Information may change rapidly as the event progresses, and initial news reports may be unreliable. The latest updates to this article may not reflect the most current information. Feel free to improve this article or discuss changes on the talk page, but please note that updates without valid and reliable references will be removed. (February 2023) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)"
https://imgur.com/RLeyjw9
In the "far past" Wikipedia at War with Iteself
Inside Wikipedia’s endless war over the coronavirus lab leak theory
CNET / JACKSON RYAN / JUN 28 2021
“In recent weeks, increasing press coverage from the likes of The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post has seen the lab leak hypothesis endlessly debated on social media, talk radio and primetime TV. It’s become unavoidable. Unless you visit Wikipedia’s COVID-19 pandemic page. The words ‘lab leak’ aren’t mentioned anywhere. To find them, you have to know where to look: the “Talk” page. The Talk page is like a collaborative Google Doc, a place where the legion of volunteer editors can raise queries and kick around new ideas on how articles might be improved. Even veteran Wikipedia users might not notice the small tab at the top left of every article that takes you behind the curtain.” https://www.cnet.com/science/features/w ... ak-theory/


Wikpedia was more than willing to oblige framing the Covid narrative; the company line using all the kangaroo courts at its disposal.



In the Past - If you mentioned the topic you would be smacked

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lab_leak_theory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ory,_again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... Leak_Again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... Leak_Again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... hypothesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... s/COVID-19


-ScrupulousScribe is banned... from writing about the Covid-19 lab leak theory, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and anyone directly associated with the Institute, on any Wikipedia page (with some noticeboard exceptions described on their talk page) for three months from 20 January 2021. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:32, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

COVID-19 lab leak hypothesis is extended-confirmed protected indefinitely. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:44, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by Cla68 » Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:36 am

Here's the paper:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... 23.2168939

It's from an academic journal, but that journal has its own political agenda. Since it is published in Israel, you can probably figure out what it is.

Anyway, from what I understand, the editors of that cabal don't only focus on Poland's relationship to the Jewish Holocaust, but also to Poland's general history. If I remember correctly, didn't many of them get discovered about eight years ago using a mailing-list to coordinate their edits?

Wikipedia just cannot handle determined cabals of established users using it for propaganda or historical revisionism. The only real success they've had, that I'm aware of, was in handling the Scientology shills. I guess they had a partial success with the "Allegations of Israeli Apartheid" case which resulted in Jayjg finally giving it all up. Except for those two cases, WP's administration has botched its response to all the other cabals with which it has been asked to deal with.

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:24 am

Cla68 wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:36 am


Wikipedia just cannot handle determined cabals of established users
Wikipedia is a social network that is "all about people" not about "content, fact, rules, process, or building an encyclopedia."

It is all about garnering support (or bringing support to the table) while trying to minimize negativity generated from participating on the platform. The more you really do on the platform the more vulnerable you become.

Doing "negative" things such as nominating articles for deletion or "patrolling edits" of new editors is far less dangerous than writing an article or making a meaningful change to an article.

Bringing support to the table in the form of a sock is just less sophisticated than working with a group of people to make subtle changes incrementally over time. These folks use the "leverage" of the system against their enemies and to their advantage. The attacks they make are entirely personal.

Creating content is the fastest way to generate negativity on the platform. Using automated tools to "farm" social capital doing mindless tasks accrues the least negativity.

Administrators (and power editors) are very afraid of losing "social capital" which occurs when they are in conflict with an established user - and have to go to notice boards or arbitration. Every decision creates a grudge for later use. The accrued support of others ("social capital") and "personal grudges" are the main factor in becoming an administrator on the system.

What gets said on the platform "as fact" is all determined personally and on a personal basis.

Addressing our European propagandists directly is far too dangerous to do so the problem festers for years in the "Window dressing" of a fake process. It costs too much social capital to address the problem so nobody takes responsibility to do so.
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by Cla68 » Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:12 pm

wexter wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:24 am
Addressing our European propagandists directly is far too dangerous to do so the problem festers for years in the "Window dressing" of a fake process. It costs too much social capital to address the problem so nobody takes responsibility to do so.
When I was active in WP I was somewhat aware that that cabal was trying to make Polish history look as pristine as possible. Some of them were also active in the Military History WikiProject. In my case, I just didn't care.

You're right about the MMORPG aspect of WP. The administrators are wary of taking on established editors for the reasons you describe.

Administrators are more likely to take on established editors if they have some top-cover, such as if the editors in question are on the "wrong" side of an issue, which is usually determined by the establishment narrative at the moment. Now that that Holocaust journal has pointed and screamed at the Polish cabal, it gives cover to the WP administrators to do something about it, but it wouldn't surprise me if they screw it up again.

If I had ever become an administrator in WP, I was planning on trying to take on some of the POV cabals. My plan was to pick some article or topic area, look at the talk page(s) and its history, examine the editing history of any editors who were causing problems, and then simply start blocking them. Looking back, I can see that it wouldn't have worked. My blocks would have been quickly lifted by the admins who were friends with those particular editors, and they would have immediately asked that I be desysopped.

But, that is one of the things that WP needs. It needs admins who can be objective and neutral and who can quickly break-up POV editing cabals.

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:42 pm

A new opinion piece Speaks to "narrative framing" as is mentioned in "East European Warfare." This thread speaks to "the state of Wikipedia" so here are key phrases that confirm what has been said on this blog for years;


Wikipedia ... mechanism fail - As mentioned it is all about people not issues - rules and processes are completely arbitrary

“Wikipedia.. discourages any sort of an authority coming to solve a dispute, - nobody takes responsibility

what motivates these editors to invest so much time and effort into distorting Wikipedia - for corporations its clear, for individuals managing their marketing effort it is clear; for those driving a narrative it is clear; for the many autistic people editing the platform it is clear; for sex politics and sex identity advocacy it is clear; state actors it is clear; its hard to look at the motivations of the many people distorting the platform

The arbitration committee took on the issue without being asked internally within Wikipedia to do so - Well, there are no rules or processes on the platform; it was just a matter of embarrassment and protecting the Foundation from having to make a decision. The Wikimedia Foundation passed the buck on responsibility back to the people that have facilitated the same problem for years (and continue to do so)
"The Wikimedia Foundation welcomes research on Wikipedia and Wikimedia projects that aims to better understand our projects’, including where improvements can be made in its content. Wikipedia volunteer editors are actively discussing the findings of the study and any potential violations of Wikipedia’s policies, including those around neutrality, reliability and verifiablity. The Wikimedia Foundation is, in addition, actively reviewing the study to evaluate if and how we may be able to support volunteer-led moderation processes on Wikipedia. Whenever a claim of biased content is brought to our attention, our first step is to share those concerns directly with volunteer editors, who create and enforce Wikipedia’s content policies.


The Wikipedia editors now being accused of distorting articles have rejected the allegations against them. - Again a total lack of responsibility taking. The editors accused of distorting articles continue to edit into these allegations; not a single administrator has the guts to tell these folks to take a "time out." The editors are actively fighting the fight of narrative building with other editors on notice boards! This is clearly illustrated on this thread and the propaganda they are spreading is also broken down and explained here.

something close to an existential crisis for Wikipedia Yes, the entire credibility of Wikipedia is at stake. The issues go well beyond the small number of topics mentioned. There are hundreds if not a hundred thousand articles that are driven by narratives on the platform; with many people involved.

the website is accused of being used to spread propaganda and marketing and hate and gender advocacy (that is disproportional to reality) and all sorts of agendas

Wikipedia is alleged to be vulnerable to large-scale manipulation by a small group of bad-faith actors. manipulation is systemic as the site lacks any kind of workable processes.

There is little confidence in the community that a solution is within reach.
It is nonsensical and verbose window dressing.

But figuring out if the accused editors have indeed evaded safeguards and undermined Wikipedia’s integrity would seem to require that the arbitrators become experts on the subject matter It is a structure and process failure - the thread mentions its all about social capital and the influence of people in the context of toxicity.

The decision to take up the case serves to acknowledge that the committee failed to solve the problem when it last considered complaints about two years ago. The idea that gross evasions of "the process" can be solved by a defective process is obscene. Nobody is taking responsibility because nobody has been empowered to take responsibility in a system designed to evade responsiblity. PLEASE READ THE QUOTE from the Wikimedia Foundation exculpating themselves of responsibility - by boomeranging the issue back to the irresponsible party.


“It can’t be escalated further than it already has in our mechanisms - Well the Supreme Kangaroo court was constructed, structured, and organized, in a way to look at the people without having a mechanism for looking at Content.

just put it through those mechanisms again, and hope that something better will come out on the other side.” OK, run a major source of information on HOPE, provide information and hope it is accurate.. HOPE WTF

the only other choice is to kick the can down the road. - This systemic problem has to be fixed yesterday.

Wikipedia’s so-called Supreme Court could ask for help from an even higher authority: the Wikimedia Foundation, - The whole point of the Wikimedia Foundation is to disclaim responsibility so it does not have liability - See Section 230

Wikipedia, hiring an outside expert to disentangle the web of obfuscation and banning a set of editors. As said before, a responsible party would hire an auditor to look not only at this instance of malfeasance but at all the internal controls and processes.

The public and the press are not aware what a mess this platform is; and how fatal that mess is. This thread looks and describes the overview - if you are outside this chat-board, looking at it for the first time, now is the time to study the posts here as it has a treasure-trove of detailed and factual information.


Source of quotes 2/12/2023
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hksrnqlts
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by Ognistysztorm » Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:10 am

The best shot would be Eric Barbour's book; hope he's finally found a publisher now.

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by ericbarbour » Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:34 am

Ognistysztorm wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:10 am
The best shot would be Eric Barbour's book; hope he's finally found a publisher now.
Nope, still no bites. The only thing that happened was a whispered "commission offer" by someone claiming to be a publisher, who wanted a "Wikipedia tell-all". I gave him sample chapters and he refused them. Then I found his real name and realized he wasn't after an "honest tell-all", he is a right-wing pundit who is rudely treated on Wikipedia. It's an obvious revenge ploy.

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