Eastern European Warfare

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Ognistysztorm
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by Ognistysztorm » Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:25 pm

PS - the "Radicalized" Poles (in Canada) are now making threats to users across Wikipedia. As usual Wikipedia is reverting those edits/efforts instead of actually doing something.
Is that related to the Holocaust distortion incidents?

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by Cla68 » Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:26 pm

I understand that this thread isn't meant primarily to discuss the latest Poland history cabal arbitration case, but there is nowhere else for me to say this, and that's that there is something singularly salient about this case.

Judging from the arbitrator comments on the case proposal page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... se#Support ), they have no idea what they're involved with here. Wikipedia administrators, and established users, are so used to being inside their insular Wikipedia bubble, and quickly reverting and banning any IP or new editors who mess with it, that they don't realize when they're overmatched or in over their heads. They don't understand that this issue has already been decided, and Wikipedia and its administration has no say in the decision.

The Holocaust remembrance industry is arguably the most organized, active, and motivated grievance machine in world history. They have good reason for their motivation, as violent antisemitism has been almost a constant throughout history, culminating in the genocide in WWII, and they obviously want to keep it from happening again, among other reasons.

It the participants in that community don't get what they want from this arbitration case, they are going to go after the Wikimedia Foundation, including its officers, and could very well go after the arbitrators. They have the full weight behind them of all Western media, all Western governments, all Western corporate industry, and all popular culture and social media. The WMF and arbitrators don't appear to understand this. The Grabowski essay is a shot across the bow, giving Wikipedia a chance to correct information about the Holocaust that the Holocaust scholars believe is problematic. If Wikipedia doesn't fix it to their satisfaction, the gloves will come off.

If any established Wikipedian or administrator reads this, you need to warn the arbitrators. Personally, I don't have much sympathy for the arbitrators, as I think the people administering one of the biggest websites on the planet deserve some consequences for their ineptness and laziness. However, what may be coming is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by Ognistysztorm » Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:48 pm

Cla68 wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:26 pm
I understand that this thread isn't meant primarily to discuss the latest Poland history cabal arbitration case, but there is nowhere else for me to say this, and that's that there is something singularly salient about this case.

Judging from the arbitrator comments on the case proposal page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... se#Support ), they have no idea what they're involved with here. Wikipedia administrators, and established users, are so used to being inside their insular Wikipedia bubble, and quickly reverting and banning any IP or new editors who mess with it, that they don't realize when they're overmatched or in over their heads. They don't understand that this issue has already been decided, and Wikipedia and its administration has no say in the decision.

The Holocaust remembrance industry is arguably the most organized, active, and motivated grievance machine in world history. They have good reason for their motivation, as violent antisemitism has been almost a constant throughout history, culminating in the genocide in WWII, and they obviously want to keep it from happening again, among other reasons.

It the participants in that community don't get what they want from this arbitration case, they are going to go after the Wikimedia Foundation, including its officers, and could very well go after the arbitrators. They have the full weight behind them of all Western media, all Western governments, all Western corporate industry, and all popular culture and social media. The WMF and arbitrators don't appear to understand this. The Grabowski essay is a shot across the bow, giving Wikipedia a chance to correct information about the Holocaust that the Holocaust scholars believe is problematic. If Wikipedia doesn't fix it to their satisfaction, the gloves will come off.

If any established Wikipedian or administrator reads this, you need to warn the arbitrators. Personally, I don't have much sympathy for the arbitrators, as I think the people administering one of the biggest websites on the planet deserve some consequences for their ineptness and laziness. However, what may be coming is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
There are a number of editors some of which I know that are so-called "exopedians" or "wikipacifists" who aren't really assimilated by the permeating toxic culture yet. Preferably those should be forewarned to pack a bug out bag and run to competitor platforms as fast as they can. I get the impression that more and more former editors have been wronged and wanted to see Wikipedia come crashing down, so perhaps the only way to achieve that is to let them make their mistakes as long as they wish.

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:44 pm

Polish people are nationalistic Nazi's and they are next - then onto the Baltic States. We have to re-fight the great patriotic war and rebuild our empire; The Poles are evil mother fuckers that hate our guts and they need to be dealt with.
It looks like our "basket" of maligned editors might pay the price of getting what they wished for - the people on the "street" in Russia are even more propagandized (and dumber) than folks in the US (even though that is hard to believe). “Say ‘Auf Wiedersehen’ to your Nazi balls!” – Hugo Stiglitz


"You know, the war which we are trying to stop which was launched against us using Ukrainian people—of course it influenced the policy of Russia, including energy policy," Lavrov said at the 2023 Raisina Dialogue in New Delhi, India, on Friday.

https://www.newsweek.com/video-crowd-la ... ar-1785485
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:59 am

The "hammer" came down on TheTranarchist but not on our Eastern European Warriors.
Here are a few quotes just to show how duplicitous, arbitrary, and feckless Wikipedia is in regards to other people editing to an agenda including our Polish Nationalists.

Advocacy editing by User:TheTranarchist (massive massive thread)

-she goes beyond interest in trying to mold the topic area to fit her worldview. That is incompatible with Wikipedia.

-She has become a WP:TENDITIOUS editor.

time to edit "in other areas of the encyclopedia" -CaptainEek

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ranarchist
1) Our Polish Nationalists (and others mentioned on this thread) are trying "to mold a topic area to fit a worldview"
2) Our Polish Nationalists (and others mentioned on this thread) are "tenditious editors" and are in a state of war using notice boards
3) Our Polish Nationalists (and others mentioned on this thread) have no interest in editing in areas outside their worldview

Wikipedia Lacks the guts to stop these manipulators cold.
Clearly, "Some Animals are More Equal Than Others.
See Below - the malfeasance continues and you do NOTHING! -
A fractured fairy tale a.ka. "banning a Tran is Low Hanging Fruit?"


Lets see what these zealots are up to presently;

Piotrus - fighting with other editors, tag teaming on common topics, being the victim
-Trójmorski Wierch ‎ Warning: Edit warring on Jan Błoński‎
-Using his talk page as a "soap box" Claiming victimization
-Afraid he won't continue to be "the last man standing" which proves out his unethical ways of working the system
We all know that some disputes on Wikipedia are won by the "last man standing", and nothing says that the "last man" cannot be an indef-banned harasser with an army of socks.
Volunteer Marek - focused on a narrow group of topics to drive a worldview; misusing notice boards to full advantage, tag teaming

-Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎
-Tadeusz Piotrowski (sociologist) ‎
- Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Poeticbent ‎
-Jan Błoński ‎ →‎Biography: clearer thank Tag: Reverted
-Kielce pogrom ‎ -
-Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard ‎

GizzyCatBella - In a bat shit crazy war "On the Forgotten Holocaust" tag teaming with his buddies, notice board warrior
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... zyCatBella
-https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... on=history
-Mariusz Becha No narrative framing here (nothing to see, more on folks)
Mariusz Bechta .. published various fascist literature a... rebuffing Pole complicity with the Nazis in the murder of Jews —

GizzyCatBella: Following TrangaBellam's additions re GCB I agree with HJ Mitchell that there is a pattern in GCB's contributions to talk page discussions generally being meta comments about procedure rather than good faith contributing to the root of the discussion a..... , now that I've looked in more detail at GCB's history in this topic area (the TBAN from the World War II history of Poland from 2018-2020) I don't believe that an informal reminder would be appropriate and instead am in favour of a logged warning at a minimum but am leaning more towards reinstating the topic ban on GCB and extending it to the history of the Jews in Poland.
Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:28, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Have some guts dweeb...I bet any action you take in re GCB will blow up in your face..
@GizzyCatBella: Why do you keep falsely accusing me of the same thing over & over? For the record, as you know, I answered you yesterday, when you falsely accused me of yesterday. And, you know I answered yesterday, because also yesterday, you replied to my answer here. So tell me: Why do you keep falsely accusing me of the same thing over & over again? - Gizzy knows all the notice board moves.. hit em once, hit em twice, until it sticks...

Nihil novi - tag teaming
-The Forgotten Holocaust ‎ →‎Arbitration case, and Legitimizing fringe academics thank
‎-Laments (Kochanowski) ‎ It's either "title page" or "cover", but not "cover page". current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
-Jan Kochanowski ‎ →‎Significance: copyedit current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
‎- Polish Positivism ‎ →‎Overview current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
-The Forgotten Holocaust ‎ →‎Hoffman thank
-Tadeusz Piotrowski (sociologist) ‎

Lembit Staan
-A long timeou
t and perhaps goodbye

Xx236
-Taking a timeout

Piotrus - tag teaming, quoting Volunteer Marek, claiming to be the victim, focused on narrative framing
-Warning: Edit warring on Jan Błoński‎. current thank Tag: Twinkle [rollback] [vandalism]
-Sichuan-Shaanxi Soviet Union General Monument Forest Memorial Hall
-Neo-Nazi punk ‎ ←Redirected page to Nazi punk current thank Tags: New redirect Visual edit
-German retribution against Poles who helped Jews ‎
- User talk:Piotrus
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus/Response

Levivich - tag teaming, using notice boards to shut down dissent.
-The Forgotten Holocaust ‎
-Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring ‎

My very best wishes
"This is very important... external actors" (could it be JEWS?) "is the biggest problem of Wikipedia."
It ain't me I am the victim here
"Someone" (could it be JEWS?) "paid them to promote misinformation or get someone banned?"
People outside of Wikipedia JEWS want to get us banned!
Due to personal issues, My very best wishes will be away from Wikipedia for an undefined period of time.
These idiots could just voluntarily edit "in other areas of the encyclopedia" but they are not going to do that because that is not their objective - they have to be told what to do - as Wikipedia faces an existential crisis in systemic process failure
Wikipedia - "Barely competent and paranoid. There’s a hell of a combination."

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:09 pm

East European Warfare just spread to Libya
At 27000 words this tag showed up on Muammar Gaddafi

This article may be too long to read and navigate comfortably. Please consider splitting content into sub-articles, condensing it, or adding subheadings. Please discuss this issue on the article's talk page. (February 2023)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... kumar.goel

Lets get down to editing an encyclopedia Jerry Springer Style.
"As a historian and academic researcher I can say that you clearly don't know anything about Libya." IceFrappe

"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog. Thus it matters less what you claim about yourself." Aman Kumar Goel
Of course the article is OWNED by a single editor
Excessive Length and Deterioration in Quality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muammar_Gaddafi

Hello. I've been monitoring this article for many years now, having been the editor responsible for getting it to Good Article status back in 2013.
...
For this reason, I would ask that User:IceFrappe reverse their mass reversion of my recent edits. The edits in question both made a start at cutting down the excess length and also removed some of the unreferenced statements that had been sneaked into the article in recent years. The article's GA-level quality (and its potential ability to reach Featured Article status) can only be retained if edits like this are made. Midnightblueowl (talk) 09:50, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
In my study; "Good Articles" represent the small percentage of articles (1/2 of a percent) which might be of minimally acceptable quality - with the Good Article Status being transitory - good articles are not reviewed they are nominated and voted upon.

Currently, out of the 6,626,610 articles on Wikipedia, 37,515 are categorized as good articles (about 1 in 177)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_articles

What is obviously a bad article (Muammar_Gaddafi) presently is listed as a good article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ticles/all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... assessment
Last edited by wexter on Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by ericbarbour » Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:00 pm

wexter wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:09 pm
East European Warfare just spread to Libya
That's the main problem with WP editwarring in one content area: people out to POV something in another area will see the stupid arbitrations and cowardice of WP insiders, and go "hey, this is MY chance to bias the content I want to bias". The "rules", such as they are, allow for plenty of wiggle room in abusive editing battles. Insiders are even more prone to using the wiggle room to win their petty little wars.

For the 1000th time. Wikipedia is not an "encyclopedia". It's a cult, a nut magnet, and a social media thing. The "content" is just the bait.

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:07 pm

4 MAR UPDATE
The Arbitration Committee has been hard at work behind the scenes coming to an agreement about the structure of the case. We shared several of these details today with the clerks list. This has sparked some more discussion and has led to more refinement. After a new agreement is reached, the committee and clerks will likely need a few days to setup the case. So
while I had said elsewhere that I was hoping for early next week, I'm going to say that I still hope for early next week, but sometime next week seems like a more reasonable estimate at this point. Barkeep49 (talk) 03:21, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... uests/Case

Per the above quote

The "Supreme Court of Wikipedia" is making stuff up (making process up) as they go along. There are no documented and transparent rules, framework, standards, guidelines, procedures, or processes that assure fair and consistent outcomes.

How the "Arbitration Committee" reacts to incidents and draws conclusions is totally arbitrary. It is all done on a one off, ad hoc, whimsical, personal, and reactive basis.

How embarrassing is this revelation? WMF anyone?


The thread has a quote from WMF putting this case in the hands of the Wikipedians. How is this acceptable to anyone including the accused parties and everyone outside of Wikipedia?
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:40 am

Wikipedia narrative framing and manipulation moves to India
But it is alleged in reliable Indian news sources that the Adani Group has been manipulating articles on Wikipedia. That allegation belongs in the article because it helps readers to gain an understanding the Adani Group.-- Toddy1 (talk) 12:30, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Adan ... entries%22

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ma ... 121928.cms
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:19 am

It is clear that coordinated "East European Narrative Framing" has been going on since 2005!

Here is some proof from 2009 which resulted in a slap on the wrist - with the same malfeasance allowed (and confirmed) to continue at Wikipedia and tolerated by WMF for 14 YEARS from the time notice was given.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... iling_list
Piotrus - findings in 2009
-was aware that usage of the list was inappropriate, and made efforts to keep its nature and existence secret from Wikipedia editors.
-Use of administrative tools in disputes
-has used his administrative tools in disputes he and other members of the list were involved in in order to affect disputes
-used administrative tools in furtherance of their point of view.
-has participated in a variety of disruptive activities coordinated on the mailing list, including 'tag team' edit-warring
-encouraging and advising list members to circumvent Wikipedia policies
Other folks mentioned in the Arbitration Case are probably using socks


Some Findings in 2009 (and new rules and precedents) which were promptly ignored and have been ignored for 14 years!


-an influx of biased or partisan editors is likely to generate an improper illusion of a consensus
-messages that are written to influence the outcome rather than to improve the quality of a discussion may be considered disruptive
-messages within a biased or partisan audience — especially when not public — are considered disruptive

- Wikipedia is not a battleground. It is not a place to hold grudges, import personal conflicts, or nurture hatred or fear. Making personal battles out of Wikipedia discussions goes directly against our policies and goals. In particular, making list of "opponents" or coordinating actions in order to drive off or punish perceived "adversaries" goes counter to the necessary collegiate atmosphere required to write an encyclopedia.

-Using Wikipedia policies and guidelines in bad faith to thwart the aims of Wikipedia and the process of communal editorship deliberately is gaming, and a disruptive abuse of process. Activities such as coordinating around policy such as the revert rules, or any other attempt to subvert the spirit of any policy or process in order to further a dispute is disruptive.

-members coordinating in order to protect each other and their point of view in articles
-members coordinated around the three revert rule, commenting in process along "party lines", supporting each other in disputes even when otherwise uninvolved in them. Tactics organized on the list include baiting, harassment and vexatious complaints against specific users in order to have them sanctioned or driven away from participating.

-members of the mailing list have further displayed a battleground mentality, encouraging each other to fight editors perceived as being "opponents" and generally assuming bad faith from editors editing from other points of view

Read the above - NOTHING has changed - with the same issues occurring, the same rules being broken, the same exploits being used, the same toxicity without a meaningful response for 14+ years!
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