Indian government pressures Wikipedia into changing maps

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Indian government pressures Wikipedia into changing maps

Post by Boink Boink » Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:08 am

In yet another sign that the dipshits at Wikipediocracy don't know their ass from their elbow regarding legal action and Wikipedia, the SignPost is carrying an extraordinary story about a recent legal dispute involving the Indian government about Wikipedia's maps.

Buried amongst all the shite about how the Foundation doesn't do editing, were some very inconvenient facts. Merely by threatening the owners of Wikipedia with a foreign law that has no jurisdiction over Wikipedia, the Indian government succeeded in making the Foundation their bitch. The mere threat of blocking Wikipedia in India for breaking their laws regarding maps, was enough to achieve the following......

** The Foundation communicated the content demands of the Indian government to Wikipedia volunteers. Namely, alter your maps of India to acknowledge the existence of India's map law or else.

** The Foundation conducted a "thorough manual review" of 81 (EIGHTY ONE!!!) Wikimedia content urls to see if they needed changing to meet the demands of the Indian government.

** The Foundation drew up a list of twelve maps on Commons that "require attention" to both alter imagery and add captions to comply with the Indian government's demands.

** The Foundation publicised the fact the Indian government has uploaded its own official map of India in the expectation it will be used as a reference in making these changes

People can talk whatever bollocks they like about how India didn't actually win a court case or get the Foundation to make any edits, but they can fuck right off. All they are doing is refusing to acknowledge what actually happened here and what it says about the lies the Foundation tells people and the power of foreign laws over an American encyclopedia.

The absolutely existential fear the Foundation has that they might be blocked in a territory the size of India, which of course has the resources and national pride to set up an alternative in short order, meaning that even if the Foundation overturns the ban in an Indian court, it may be a very moot point by then.

For all the strong words about neutrality of the projects and editorial independence, it is a simple fact that through the above outcomes, the Indian government has already secured a massive advantage in what is essentially a content dispute.

For all the talk of how paid editing is banned and nobody can buy influence over Wikipedia content, the Indian government has effectively just used Indian taxpayer's money to buy influence over Wikipedia as a paid editor making direct and detailed requests for edits.

The Foundation has quite literally expended quite a lot of time and money on a matter it claims it doesn't do except in limited circumstances where they have a legal obligation. There is no Claifornian statute that requires the Foundation to perform what are in essence, editorial research activities, on behalf of the Indian government.

Having caved in quite spectacularly under the mere threat of legal action, the Foundation has sent out enough coded and not so coded signals to its editors that in the first instance, the Foundation would very much like these changes to be made expeditiously by their own hands, and in the second intance, if they are too lazy to do so, they should not stand in the way of anyone who does make these changes.

Local volunteers have absolutely no chance of resisting these changes, unless they like the idea of being identified as the reason Wikipedia got blocked in India. Indeed, the Indian government might actually be hoping the volunteers do make it plain that they will quite happily ignore and actively resist doing what even the owners of the website clearly expects them to do as part of their charitable mission, since this will only bolster the case that Wikipedia is not what it claims to be and must be blocked.

The Indian government has effectively just completely nullified English Wikipedia's policy against canvassing and their rules against conflict of interest editing. In the unlikely event nobody in India now volunteers to make these changes on behalf of their government, they are now free to hire their own editors to do it under the radar. As long as they don't do something daft like edit from a government IP, with this much public information and direction emanating from the Foundation, how could any Wikipedia Administrator hope to make the case that there must be an undisclosed conflict of interest at work, if someone now registers solely to make these changes?

It is highly likely that the volunteers might just lock these maps down totally, which will again further the Indian government's case.

Of course the elephant in the room is what damage will be caused when the other governments do the same thing. Pretty soon, the brand value of Wikipedia will be in the toilet in the sub-continent, since it will be clear that on entire areas of Wikipedia, the only editors with the time and energy to fight, are those being paid by their respective governments to do so.

The Foundation has clearly decided to do away with its principles and saddle itself with yet more reputational harm in a growth market, given the far worse alternative that a credible legal threat forced them to confront, no matter how unrealistic it actually is.

After all, it's not like Wikipedia hasn't been victorious in foreign courts before.....

It is pragmatism. And as such, it will drive the volunteer editors fucking crazy. They love nothing more than standing up for their rights as independent sovereign citizens of the internet. As long as they're not the ones paying the bill.

In short, legal threats work.

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Re: Indian government pressures Wikipedia into changing maps

Post by adamovicm » Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:14 am

Those countries can easily copy Wikipedia into Indiopedia or something. And than call Google to tell them they have to stop showing Wikipedia in India, they can use official Indiopedia only. That's how stuff is done in 3th world countries.

WMF said to volunteers please check these maps if it would make sense to change it.

The biggest problem in the approach I see is that volunteers. That sounds like something for employees, not for volunteers. Like admin sounds like a job, rather than a hobby.

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Re: Indian government pressures Wikipedia into changing maps

Post by ericbarbour » Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:44 am

Boink Boink wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:08 am
The absolutely existential fear the Foundation has that they might be blocked in a territory the size of India, which of course has the resources and national pride to set up an alternative in short order, meaning that even if the Foundation overturns the ban in an Indian court, it may be a very moot point by then.
India is en-WP's biggest "growth area" and a major source for content producers. So naturally the WMF would cave in to political pressure from India. The "free information" and "all human knowledge" crap really sounds hollow when they chicken out to special interests.

Indians have committed a long, LONG list of abuses on en-WP, not to mention hi-WP and other South Asian languages. Anyone remember that "Wifione" nut? Or Jossi Fresco? Or Jagged85, or Nichalp, or Hkelkar?

Book wiki, anyone? The India/Pakistan/Bangladesh area is an incredible world-class shitshow. And not many people outside of the subcontinent even know it's going on. (Please DO NOT ask about Wikimedia India.)
As anyone from one of these countries will relate, and as textbooks on the subject will elaborate, the history of the Indian subcontinent has been one of considerable political, ethnic and religious strife. Some of the smaller groups, such as the Sikhs, exist primarily because of centuries-long disputes with Muslims and Hindus. More than a thousand languages are spoken there, some only used in a single village apiece.

Wikipedia's handling of such disputes is little different from the real-world wars. Hindustani, Gujarati, Tamil, Muslim, Bengali, Sikh, Bihari, Oriya, Punjabi, Rajasthani, Sinhalese and members of many other groups[1] have tried to edit English Wikipedia, and fallen into disputes. The worst disputes usually involved Hindu and Muslim editors. Little noticed by Wikipedia's mandarins, these disputes have nonetheless shaped Wikipedia's coverage of the subcontinent, for better or for (usually) worse. India is a complex place, and India editwars on Wikipedia are so complex they cannot be studied fully, or even summarized. This article will show a small sample of typical problems.

Most perversely, Wikipedia is proving to be extremely popular with people in India. It is not unusual for Jimbo's talkpage to be full of lavish praise from Indian peoples of various backgrounds (see Jimbo's Talkpage Messes).

Primary Combatants (not intended to be a complete list)

administrative


Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington, Hindu, administrator and one of the co-founders of Wikimedia India.
Bao Loc Nguyen, administrator and arbitrator, a Vietnamese who was fond of Hindus, left Wikipedia in 2010.
Dbachmann (T-C-F-R-B), administrator who is often dragged into ethnic battles, repeatedly accused of bias[2].
Dominic McDevitt-Parks, administrator and arbitrator, often dragged into ethnic battles.
Jagged 85, Indian Muslim, vandalized thousands of articles.
Rama's Arrow (T-C-F-R-B), aka Nirav Maurya, Hindu. Became an administrator in 2006, and quit Wikipedia in August 2007 after fighting with Hkelkar and others, and becoming "burned out".
Nichalp, one of the worst examples of a Wikipedia insider performing paid/COI editing in history.
Tinucherian (T-C-F-R-B), Wikimedia India principal and glorifier of Achal Prabhala.

others

Gurkhaboy (T-C-F-R-B) -- if it's Gurkha, he's on it.
Digvijay (T-C-F-R-B), left in 2006, all records erased.
Hkelkar (T-C-F-R-B), Hindu, lived in Texas. He is one of the most "evil" people in Wikipedia history, judging by the history of his userpage and talkpage. He is suspected of operating hundreds of sockpuppets, although no SPI or long-term abuse page about him exists, for mysterious reasons. There is a lengthy checkuser case centering on him. See arbitrations below.
Freedom skies (T-C-F-R-B), disappeared in July 2007, claimed to be socking in 2009[3]. Despite lack of proof any of these accounts were his sockpuppets, he was banned forever anyway.
Deeptrivia (T-C-F-R-B), believed to be a Hindu from Malwa. First edited in 2005 and frequently involved in India-related religious disputes, despite being a good contributor. Requested adminship in March 2006, and failed. Finally disappeared in December 2012 with no reason given.
Muwaffaq (T-C-F-R-B), alleged sockpuppet of Deeptrivia, left/forced out in October 2005.
Viscious81 (T-C-F-R-B), Hindu. Aka "nids", pretended to disappear in 2007 but still editing as of 2013.
Wiki Raja (T-C-F-R-B), background uncertain, sockpuppeted everywhere and got away with it[4].
Dangerous-Boy (T-C-F-R-B), apparently Muslim, left Wikipedia in 2011.
Bakasuprman (T-C-F-R-B), called "Bakaman" at first, Hindu. Became friendly with some insiders, and fought with Hkelkar extensively. He left Wikipedia in 2010, probably another "burnout" case.
Sitush (T-C-F-R-B), real name Simon Tushingham, alleged to be a Hindu living in the UK, a very good content writer. Tried to clean up the caste-system articles, and was repeatedly attacked for it. What a lovely "reward". [5][6] Suspected of trying to keep "Indians Against Corruption" off English Wikipedia, see Wikimedia India. He is not well liked.

Arbitrations
2005


Rajput, "I request arbitration on events occurring at Rajput, where mind-boggling edit-warring and shouting matches have been occurring for the best part of half a year. The question holding the article hostage is "Can there be such a thing as a 'Muslim Rajput'?". The simple answer is that this is disputed. But far from documenting the controversy, a tag team of "Hindus only" editors (very difficult to keep track of, fraying into throwaway accounts, anon IPs, and probable sockpuppets) vigorously opposes the mere description of such a controversy. The talkpage has long degenerated into an unreadable shouting match, making it impossible for the bona fide editors (which exist on both sides, "Hindus only" and "Muslims too") to have a meaningful discussion." Various Hindu editors are banned from the Rajput article, but that doesn't stop them.

2006

Hkelkar, an editor who was accused of editing Caste system in India improperly, and of sockpuppeting. Discussions of the caste system always turn into ugly warfare. Blocks and restrictions passed out. No effect on the warfare. Said article is probably untrustworthy due to endless editwarring.

2007

India-Pakistan, mostly Hindus and Muslims fighting. One-year blocks were handed out to the major disputants; as soon as the blocks expired, they went right back to the same madness.
Hkelkar 2, a continuation of the above. More blocks passed out.
Freedom skies, something to do with an editor messing with articles on Indian mathematics. Freedom skies received minor restrictions, but kept it up.

2008

Dbachmann, in which various ethnic warriors jump on Dbachmann and scream "injustice". Arbcom chickened out as usual.

2011

The argumentation over Indian social castes was a major part of this story, although little noticed outside of the area. Arbcom operates a special page listing sanctions against combatants over the caste system and its WP coverage.

As posted on Wikipediocracy[7]:

"Oh God, the caste crap. The articles on castes are if anything worse: rambling pseudohistory written in some tenuous simulacrum of English syntax."

"You think they are bad? You should have seen them before Sitush took a firm hand in them. He has done a massive job in the caste area and deserves a medal for all the shit he has put up with."

"The problems are a bastard combination of a) the editors all being semi-literate in English. This is not so bad, as most Indian wikipedia editors can at least be talked to in English and reasoned with, its just the writing that is not great. b) "Pseudohistory". So much "caste" related material is based on belief (and historical belief) that it does not matter if it has actual historical fact behind it or not. Their great great great grandfathers lived by the doctrine, so it must be so. Even if its not accurate (or even rational). c) PoV-warriors abound."

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