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Toxic Wikipedians 
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I've just seen one of the usual suspects claim that the word toxic is too vague to be used in a debate about civility on Wikipedia. Echoing past attempts to justify the unjustifiable, it was even claimed it has different meanings to different cultures.

In a word, horseshit.

The dictionary definition suffices. That is true for the literal definition - poisonous - and the one given for its cultural applications - very bad, unpleasant, or harmful - as in, toxic relationship, or in this case, Wikipedia editors with a toxic personality.

The suggestion having been registered with a specific call-back to Jimmy Wales' original usage .....
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There are some users who have a reputation for creating good content AND for being incredibly toxic personalities
Now who here seriously has the brass neck to claim this isn't the perfect word to describe editors like Eric Corbett? Even his own wife would agree, fed up as she is with being seen as a second class citizen in her own home, Eric talking about her personal life on Wikipedia without her permission just to win some argument where he was trying for the five hundredth time to argue he's not the problem and he's certainly no misogynist, like a right clueless fucking asshole.

Jimmy's usage was spot on, especially since we basically know he was referring to Eric Corbett and all who sail in him. His conclusion neatly dovetails with the dictionary definition of harmful......
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This a tough one but my view is very simple - most of these editors cost more than they are worth and should be encouraged to leave
Take a look at the pathetic figure now cut by Eric Corbett, finally sitting out a lengthy block because the Board reminded you people of the necessity to detoxify the community. Even though he won all his battles with the Administration up to then, it's obvious now, to anyone with a brain, that in the end, the damage done in keeping him around really wasn't worth it.

His inputs, direct and indirect, were but grains of sand compared to the massive dunes of hypocrisy and injustice and division he built up, year upon miserable year. I mean, you were warned, we told you this would be what happened. But shiiiiit, didn't you just go right ahead and ignore us anyway? And now this bullshit attempt to claim he can't even be called what he so obviously was.

Now sure, to pacify the geniuses who rushed to support this hokey nonsense, only being suggested because it is such a good word to describe the likes of Eric (and the suggester being such a good friend of Eric - oh what, are you shocked, really?), when you're taking about a specific behavior that is very bad, unpleasant, or harmful, then sure, by all means use that word instead of toxic. Use the gift of language. Indeed, that should come naturally, what with you all being trained encyclopedists and shit, right?

But don't pretend that, as a catch all term for people who engage in conduct that is very bad, unpleasant, or harmful, it is perfect. Especially since it of course distinguishes those editors from the ones also doing very bad, unpleasant, or harmful things, but where this is not conduct specifically done with a knowing purpose to be poisonous. When Eric Corbett tells people to fuck off, it isn't a one off, a temper tantrum, a slip of the tongue or any other kind of accident. He doesn't and wouldn't want to be misunderstood. He intends to harm, he intends to be unpleasant, he is being deliberately poisonous.

I know you know this Wikipediots. As a ton of you argued very passionately recently, that it should be OK to repeatedly tell another user to fuck off, because sometimes you just really want to be offensive, you really want to hurt the other person, to send a message. Congratulations, now you know what you are. Toxic.

I hope for your sakes you finally heed the message the Board has now sent you. And Jimmy before that.

Happy to help. Have a nice day now. :D


Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:29 pm
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A toxic Wikipedian in action......

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Érico&diff=next&oldid=906110602

Pretty sick that. Really sick actually.

But on today's Wikipedia, they call that policy enforcement. See what happens when you don't deal with Fram? You get lots of little wannabe Frams.


Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:35 pm
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Trust & Safety should note that the local en.wiki ArbCom are currently minded to modify the toxic editor The Rambling Man's topic ban from DYK such that he is allowed to comment if someone asks him to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment&oldid=906980597#Amendment_request:_The_Rambling_Man

I hope now that it is exceedingly obvious that the local governance systems do not work. The entire point of the topic ban is because his toxicity affects everyone in the topic area, not just those he is directly interacting with, or the even smaller subset of people who actually want to know what he thinks.

It is not unlike the times toxic Wikipedians argue that when they insult someone and that person doesn't complain, it is nobody else's business. This genuinely happens in the failed en.wiki community, and you're lucky if anyone even bothers to set them straight with the actual policy that explains how moronic that viewpoint is.

The only reason this toxic editor, a former Administrator if you can believe it, is not banned, is that sufficient numbers of local editors (and Arbitrators) don't ascribe to the theory that toxicity affects everyone, even people who were simply just reading the discussions without taking part.

They only believe toxicity was present if disruption was caused. And usually it has to be severe disruption - snide comments etc just don't cut it. Long running fueds, even when they all seem to involve the same toxic user having problems with multiple others, is attributed to something else entirely. It will be a miracle if the Arbitrators even mention the sheer arrogance and bare faced falsity of his comments (his trademark style). They have let his behavior slide for years, even this restriction has lasted for only eight months.

The community and their ArbCom has not taken on board the intended message of FRAMBAN. Rather, they now merely want to stop people even using the word toxic to describe people like The Rambling Man.

The toxic users will remain in place until someone is proactive about removing them. The Rambling Man relishes his status as an outcast in the community, someone hated by a good many long standing and highly committed users. He imagines he is the reader's champion. To date, he has not shown the slightest interest in proving anyone but himself believes this extraordinary claim. All the policies en.wiki has, confirm the view he is anything but. But they just don't matter, because they don't get enforced.


Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:10 am
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CrowsNest wrote:
I hope now that it is exceedingly obvious that the local governance systems do not work.
.

Of course they don't work and special not on the foreign language wiki's. Highjack with your pirate friends and a few drunk to the left falling idiots a wiki, find some populair items as climate (french), or poor black man and crying abused woman, male or female and fuck yourself into heaven. Because uncle WMF is always be standby with a bag of bullshit donor money and if someone complaints, we have always our highly professional Sucking&Trolling department of our highly professional foundation stand by to protect the most toxic elements.

But's lets discuss this during our extreem safe Wikiania with it's safe spaces. There will be a cordon of police around the building to keep the place safe. I have even heard it is forbidden to speak this year on Wikimania. Because every the littleness noise can make de kippen van de leg by the decision makers there. They get upset. This years there will be slightly rooms in Sweden's Wikimania where are only I pads are allowed because otherwise the participants will get upset of the noise of the keyboards. They will discuss the matter with there I pads. Yes, a I pad meeting, regulated with artificial intelligence. Me is told it will be the most silent Wikimania out of the history this year where for sure the best and final solution will be found for T&S.

Just fuck of you bloody Wiki idiots! Because that is what you are.

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Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:58 am
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Eric_Corbett back at it: ARB enforcement 13 August 2019 - 72 hours block wrote:
August 9 "If you seriously believe that I will be engaging in any discussion with an incompetent gutter-snipe like yourself you had better think again."
August 9 "Your reading skills as are almost as bad as your writing skills, but both are admittedly better than your comprehension skills"
August 9 "I expect you think you're being clever, but you're a long way off with your stupid comments."
August 10 "unpaid goons like Sandstein"


Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:09 pm
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The recent attempt to fix the Eric Corbett Problem predictably resulted in numerous examples of outright toxicity from multiple established and seemingly protected users, and Eric wasn't even one of them (having scurried under his rock).

A couple of standout examples, chosen because they are both Administrators, and because they are basically engaged in overt bullying.
Quote:
Statement by Nick
Indefinite block MJL, who is sadly devoid of any of the competency needed to be editing, is an entirely disruptive influence and who has little redeeming qualities to make their retention as an editor here remotely sensible. Nick (talk) 17:48, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Quote:
Statement by Wehwalt
Given the current state of the community, with Framgate going on and other issues as well, this is not the time for the time-sink this would be, especially given the depleted state of the committee. I'm also among those who feel there is baiting going on. The diffs seem pretty weak beer by traditional Malleus standards, by the way, but I have the impression the filer felt they could provide diffs of Eric reciting "A-B-C" and there's a fair chance they'd get support from others for a case. Let Eric write and send the virtue signalers about their business.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:30, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

I"d also like to associate myself with Victoriaearle's comments about the difficulty of writing content, especially at a time when WMF has made it clear they have more of a warm spot for identity politics than quality content, when WMF let themselves be used as an ATM by insiders while the rest of us don't even get expenses. Even not actively writing, Eric is more valuable to the project than the filer, or at least I assume so, because I'd never heard of them before they filed.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:40, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Nothing about the ideas and views expressed in these comments is acceptable under Wikipedia policy, much less the calls to action, but not even the fact they were posted in the Arbitration space seems to have prompted a response from their nominal bosses, the Arbitration Committee.


Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:57 am
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Truth.
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I'm not aware of anyone on the Committee who is afraid of T&S. While there are aspects of the relationship between ArbCom and T&S that has been a little frosty since we asked to handle this case ourselves, the staff have remained professional and polite. The treatment we get from the community may be aggressive at times, but that from T&S is not. Which is sort of ironic considering we are arranging to undo an Office Action and in so doing assert the community's independence, something that the community want, but T&S would find embarrassing. SilkTork (talk) 00:03, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
SilkTork, to be accurate, I think that most of the frostiness has come from our side. When the Office ban first landed, the committee basically asked them what the fuck are you playing at? and I am not sure our faith has ever regenerated. AGK ■ 17:08, 7 September 2019 (UTC)


Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:14 am
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Corbett being banned was so good, i celebrated for 3 days straight (literally). I have the biggest hangover now but it's worth it. With Corbett gone, i calculate by my estimates that 100 new female editors will be able to stay on Wikipedia and edit for more than a week. We may even get some new Keilanas and dear i say it, Riskers.


Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:31 pm
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Just unbelievable.
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Wikipedia provides a number of help services; you will find that this page is not among them. I simply do not have the time or the patience to handle questions from somebody who has been editing Wikipedia for over six years yet still cannot carry out a simple task like making a link that works. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:05, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Your points above are noted, but you know from what I have said in past years that the stroke that I suffered at the age of 67 in July 2012 left me at times to really struggle with what seems straightforward computer tasks like the one you mention at the end of your last response, which then causes me to seek advice from a highly respected Wikipedia personage such as your good self. I think the wording used in your final comments above is very hurtful and betrays a lack of empathy.
Xenophon Philosopher (talk) 22:35, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

You were given a heap of help information soon after you started, and it's still on your user talk page, at User talk:Xenophon Philosopher#Welcome!. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:38, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Red rose lacks empathy? Guilty as charged from this one exchange, which to my recollection is not an outlier for him.

These people are properly sick. And yes, they are an Administrator. Always seems to come back that core issue - their supposedly most trusted and respected users, are fucking assholes. No surprise the rest of the community are positively hostile.


Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:36 am
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Shit, shit shit. Fight for it! Fight your way back! Don't be that sad and ill person, try to find out what you still can, and not what you not can. Don't be that sad beaten wiki woman if you had one or more mental or not mental beats, try to be a proud woman! A bag of potatoes no one will ever carry home, but a bag of gold they take with them as they say here in the farmers area. Remember that!

Shine! Not this sad pure shit!
Be the best hamburger fryer MacDonald ever had, don't try to be a wiki professor with your mental defect! Or the best street weeper. That gives you a good feeling, not this wiki shit!

I have fight myself 150% percent back in the race, I work again, I do everything I want, no one will ever notice where I have gone trough. No medicines, nothing anymore, sorry Doc James.
Mental healing, that is where I in believe. And that's the reason why I am so Shitty Angry with Fram because of what he did with Guido. Because that Fram Shit have been poison for him, pure poison. Guido needs love and respect, no Fram shit!

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En kijk eens hier, het "Verboden" lijstje van door mij aangemaakte artiklen.

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Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:09 am
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