Floquenbeam

Editors, Admins and Bureaucrats Oh my!
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Carrite
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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by Carrite » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:31 pm

CrowsNest wrote:
CrowsNest wrote:Well, one notable difference to the RexxS stitch up, there's been no to the second closure to stem the bleeding. They should probably act soon though, he is extremely close to the point where 74% becomes 73%.
Ha, I knew that was too odd. It was my mistake, he still had an hour left (damn you daylight saving). It was of course closed PDQ, and precisely to stop the percentage falling further.


That and, ummmmm, the fact that it was the closing time.

You expected that nobody would have bothered to watch the clock and that everyone would forget?

Way to keep that spin spinning though, you are nothing if not consistent. Now as a HTD fan, you have to be rooting hard for a perverse outcome in which a record number of supports gets tossed by a supervote of the bureaucrats... That'd usher in another chapter of the shitshow that keeps on giving, eh???

RfB

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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:03 am

I've now moved myself into the recuse section. I don't envy the task of the 'crats, weighing consensus over such a large number - and trying to extract the question of "should this individual be an administrator" from the "should the Foundation have blocked Fram". Combine that with the old "reconfirmation RfAs" dilemma, you have a perfect storm. This is what the 'crats are here for - and why we need them. Perhaps I'll go and nominate another one Face-wink.svg WormTT(talk) 07:08, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
Classic. Recused, but not before trying to blow on the scales - this RfA is not about Fram of course being one of the lines of argument by the supporters. No FramBan, no reconfirmation RfA, simple as that.

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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:24 am

Carrite wrote:That and, ummmmm, the fact that it was the closing time.
LIKE I SAID, the rules allow for extensions of more time would be helpful. No point ending this artificially when votes were still coming in with some regularity. You like records, well, let the community see if the trends would have continued, or if the support would have bottomed out well before the opposition did. Which camp started reaching for desperate measures first? Support, by the looks of it.
Carrite wrote:You expected that nobody would have bothered to watch the clock and that everyone would forget?
I expected them to do whatever helped Floquenbeam. He clearly wasn't interested in helping himself, nobody else was coming up with much to counter the steady erosion caused by the opposition, so closing it on the dot was what was needed to help the sorry peice of shit avoid dropping to 73% within a couple of hours, if not further with an extension of a day or more.
Carrite wrote:Way to keep that spin spinning though, you are nothing if not consistent. Now as a HTD fan, you have to be rooting hard for a perverse outcome in which a record number of supports gets tossed by a supervote of the bureaucrats... That'd usher in another chapter of the shitshow that keeps on giving, eh???
The fuck are you on about? I've always been HTD.

Record number of supports? Record number of opposes. Pathetic percentage. Hard to see how he could have done worse and still pass, RexxS is the only recent precedent, and that required epic levels of chicanery and corruption.

Wikipedia will always be a shitshow, largely because of gamers and hypocrites like you, people happy to claim up is down and black is white. Nobody with any sense expects anything else given the absence of responsible adults, hence they would have to be HTD.

Wikipedia could be reformed if cowards like you stood up to people like Black Kite. Or left in disgust at their inability to affect in ANY WAY AT ALL what these arrogant Super-Administrators get away with. But in your case, there seems to be no amount of shit you will eat, in order to be able to keep editing in the giant sandpit.

This was your one and only contribution to the RfA.......
Support — I'm not sure that the time to end an admin strike is now, but respect your decision. No worries. Carrite (talk) 23:32, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
........talk about supplication. I mean, you do actually get that Floquenbeam could give a tiny rat's are about whether you had concerns or not? He was ending the strike now because in his mind, he started it. It is his civil disobedience movement. He is the leader. So you have to accept his masterplan, even though the dumbass admitted he had no masterplan, or you are the enemy, one of the people who doesn't count.

Poor old Timmy though. So desperate to count in the eyes of the bigger boys. Such a shame you can't keep pissing in Jimmy's chips now eh, he's one of the gang now.

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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:31 am

A slight correction: there are no "compulsory" questions, only "standard" questions. No candidate is required to answer any question -- although, realistically speaking, they have little or no chance of being promoted if they don't. In any case, the implication that Floq didn't do something that he was required to do is incorrect. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:52, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
:roll:

Said in a debate which is literally about whether Floquenbeam gets the full benefit of not having answered the standard questions (since apparently 'per nom' supporters are to the given equal weight to 'no fucking say he didn't even answer the standard questions' opposes).

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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:00 am

The campaign is in full swing, this old guard asshole being the very first post on the talk page......
I have only one request of you folks (crats). Please remember to separate the Floq RfA from Framgate and WMFgate. I know that there are unavoidably going to be areas of intersection - but please remember to put weight where it belongs. Just a reminder - not a "you need to do this or that" post, I'll trust you folks to know what to do, that's why we picked you for that hat. — Ched : ? — 19:38, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
The not very subtle request being to discount every oppose vote that only mentions the Fram thing. Judge Floquenbeam by his overall record, not this one, tiny, unimportant, foegiveable, mistake. :roll:

What planet are these people on? The Fram thing is literally the only reason this seven day farce even occurred.

As usual, following the corrupt precedent set by RexxS, the Admin lobbyists are getting away with saying things which are directly contradicted by what even the candidate said (and there was me thinking Admins weren't allowed to deliberately deceive the community)........
I felt that my reverting an office action was probably serious enough that the community should decide whether I should still be an admin or not
I won't be able to do anything about opposes based on "RFA unnecessary, just ask at BN", but they will make me sad
opposes based on the belief that it was unacceptable for me to undo an office action are completely legitimate
[I] don't expect this RFA to be the cakewalk some people were claiming it would be in the immediate aftermath of the crisis. I knew the reversal of an office action (in spite of having consensus behind me) would cause further disruption, and I did it anyway
Plenty of context there to show Floquenbeam wanted his office defying act to be judged at a reconfirmation RfA, and a crystal clear statement that he seems to think he was justified because 'consensus' was behind him. One of the policies Administrators are expected to know, of course, is that office actions are CONEXCEPT.......
Office actions are not permitted to be reversed by editors except by prior explicit office permission.
That is still official Wikipedia policy, not that you would believe it from that 300+ expression of mob rule.

It is therefore pretty easy to see how these things should be weighted by truly impartial Bureaucrats.....

Zero weight should be given to supports who simply say stuff like 'yay, way to go Floq, you kicked those motherfucker's asses.', since there is absolutely no Wikipedia policy that says Adminship is about kicking the WMF's ass, ESPECIALLY not IAR. Similar discounts should be applied to votes which argue he should never have been desysopped in the first place, since they do not and cannot cite any policy, only the desire that whatever the mob wants, the mob gets. Same for all that fantasy land shit about community rights. They have NONE.

Maximum weight should be given to all opposes that say Floquenbeam's reversal of an office action represented a violation so singularly serious it means he can never be trusted to be an Administrator again, referencing as they did multiple relevant policies, not just OFFICE, CONEXCEPT and ADMIN, which might as well not exist if shit like this is allowed to happen, but also the ones that come into play even if you accept this shit can be justified by consensus - POINT, SOAP, RGW, etc, etc. And of course, CONSENSUS. The timeline presented in the RfA showed conclusively that Floquenbeam had not taken sufficient time, or given the WMF or the community sufficient opportunity to be able to realistically claim he had consensus to unblock. It has been shown in this RfA, in some detail, that he acted unilaterally, with haste, out of emotion, and with dubious motives and questionable benefits. Hence why his claim to have been supported by 95% of the community, now looks supremely arrogant, even if it was meant as a self-deprecating joke (it wasn't).

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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:05 am

Seriously......
With the discretionary range set at 65-75%, it's very hard to argue that at 74% support the consensus is in any significant way "unclear". Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:01, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
They're ACTUALLY SAYING THIS LIKE IT MAKES ANY SENSE.

If 74% (73.75%) is clear, why is it in the discretionary range?

Fucking asswipe.

This idiot is being allowed to sperg like this all over the page, yet they person who objected to an Administrator claiming their status and long service somehow makes their opinion matter more, has been blocked, by the very same Administrator. Corrupt bastards.

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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:14 am

Creative accounting......
Reconfirmation RfAs will naturally tend toward lower support percentages than first-time requests, for the very simple fact that admins have more opportunities to piss people off. (In fact, while I may be mis-remembering or thinking of another project, I seem to recall that we toyed with codifying this axiom in policy during one of the term limit/reconfirmation RfCs.) This being the case, I don't consider 74% to be within the discretionary range for a long-standing admin. I understand why the 'crats are going through the motions here, but it's plain to me that this was a successful request. – Juliancolton | Talk 22:46, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
You can think whatever you like, but Floquenbeam went into this under no illusions - in en.wiki, the pass level is the same for reconfirmation as it is for first timers, and indeed there is no written policy for reconfirmation, it has thus far only been done by a handful of drama and attention whores.

People had plenty of opportunities to claim the opposition was heavily skewed by enemies accrued, and while a few claimed it, none presented evidence. And as this RfA showed, arguably, the bigger problem in a reconfirmatoin is the masses of people prepared to turn up and support the guy they just know from way back, even if this means they deliberately ignore the opposition arguments pertinent to the present day, not least the entire reason a reconfirmation is even happening.

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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by rog » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:28 am

Crow, a quick back-of-a-fag-packet calculation suggests that you've spewed forth something like five million words about Wikipedia in the last three years.

What discernable impact, if any, have your Herculean labors had on the public's impression of the world's most famous encyclopedia-like website?

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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:40 am

More bizarreness......
Dweller's general point about the sheer volume of support in this real-world scenario is well-taken – that a sharp-tongued admin could work in the most contentious forums on the project for most of a decade, then get desysopped by office action, and still blow past 300 supports is a small miracle. Here exists a much stronger case for promotion than JoeTheEditor's 163/58/8, in my view... and mine was one of the most impassioned, long-winded opposes of the week. – Juliancolton | Talk 04:54, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
What is hard to understand here?

You can easily get 300 supports for being the sort of asshole who ignored every policy in the book, especially ADMIN, to kick the WMF in the nuts, if the WMF had done something to piss the mob off.

There is no case to be made that this is evidence they are a good ADMIN.

If an Administrator unblocked Kumioko (not technically possible, but run with it), using the exact same arguments - he wasn't given a fair trial, wasn't allowed to appeal, wasn't judged by ArbCom - he's not getting 300+ supports at his reconfirmation. As happened here, he can even claim he doesn't even like Kumioko and thinks he should be banned, just by ArbCom, because community rights. Fuck the WMF, they're not competent to assess cases like Kumioko, who we can assume hasn't touched kids, but has harassed people.

The only difference between the two is not policy or the basic reasoning of fairness and rights, it is whether an Administrator is just smart enough to only break fundamental rules if he thinks the mob has his back. That isn't good judgement, it's rank populism. And populism, by definition, is about BIGNUMBERS, not strength of arguments. Indeed, their arguments are often morally bankrupt and based on false statements about basic reality, just like this one was.

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Re: Floquenbeam

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:13 am

All the arrogant legacy Admins are on the bullshit train, and of course Wikipediocracy is enabling the second front.....
Beeblebrox wrote:I also found Dweller's rationale compelling. A 200-vote difference is a Big Deal and they ignore it at their peril. It's just barely even in the discretionary zone anyway.
If I stuck my dick into your sister, but only went 7.5% of the way in, I think you'd have a different view of "barely", no?

Dweller's BIGNUMBER doesn't mean shit, because the mixture of populism and 'per nom' arguments it is largely made up of, do absolutely nothing to address the detailed arguments in the EQUALLY BIG NUMBER of opposition. Given RfA is not a vote, that is a BIG PROBLEM.

Bureaucrats ignore a 73.75% result at their peril - it would be highly unusual to call that a pass looking at recent years, and it would have to ignore the fact editors with just as much experience and standing as him, have seen a result like that as too humiliating to even bother the Bureaucrats with making a decision on their behalf. The ones that didn't, have proven to be a source of controversy as Administrators, or in one obvious case (two if you count the really obvious case of RexxS), have chosen to live a life in the shadows, afraid to do anything controversial, because they know they don't have the legitimacy.

Shame doesn't affect the legacy Admins the way it does recent candidates. RexxS of course being classed as a legacy editor who was simply late to the Admin party. After years of being too cool for school, he eventually wanted a piece of that sweet sweet action where you get to lie your ass off as an Administrator, and nobody does a damn thing, because you are an Administrator.

Hey Jake, are you running a special program? Retards eat for free? Knowledge of Wikipedia history optional? Even for establishment figures?

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