How to be a sockpuppeteer

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Abd
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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by Abd » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:15 pm

CrowsNest wrote:
Gaslighted wrote:CheckUsers use IP info. If two editors edit from the same IP, and only one IP, then it's either the same person (most likely), or a house (possibly family, but usually fake brother) or a school/dorm (favorite target of Bbb23). These are CU blocked before they can claim it's a shared network behind NAT. This is called a "confirmed CU block".

Complications start, if a user edits from vastly different IPs (home, cafe, office, train, vpn, can be many reasons), or different IPs from the same subrange (dynamic IPs of one ISP). It's likely other people will use the same networks, thus the IP addresses used is not unique to one user. The user agent can distinguish these users, but 1. an editor might use different browsers and devices, 2. two editors might use the same browser or device type. It's up to the CU to judge the "uniqueness" of the data (taking into account the behavioral evidence). This results in suspected sockpuppets, or "possible sock-puppetry".
I don't mean they don't use it. But in the world of socky-socking, looking at an IP as your primary identifier, is about as much use as asking for ID in a forger's den. You only catch the stone cold idiots, or the completely innocent.

Cookies, device/browser, and behavior, is what it's all about. Change/mask those, you're home free. People who don't know how to do that, including how to evade AI tools, will be caught. And people who need to be taught how to do that, will also be caught, just a little later.

With a bit of work on appeal, you could even get away with using a Grawp IP. Might even be granted IP block exemption!

At the end of the day though, what potential socks have to be clear on, is why they are socking. It's a lot of effort, and in my experience, the only reward that justifies it, is just to fuck with Wikipedians, to waste their time and make them mad/bad/sad. If that's the goal, then by all means, become the best socky-sock you can be. If not, maybe find another hobby.

Basic human instinctive motivation: Avoiding Domination. When a user is unskillfully blocked/banned, and even sometimes when it was done properly,. they will sock to prove that they are free, not dominated by these assholes. This, then, with enforcement intensified (Scibaby is the poster boy for this phenomenon), socking intensifies. It becomes a hobby a habit, which can be very difficult to stop. At one point, I and another user attempted to reach out to Scibaby. That was whacked by Raul654, who had created the whole Scibaby mess. (Scibaby was apparently a global warming skeptic, I accept global warming as a real danger, so this wasn't about POV. It was about a faction believing that the public could not be trusted with complete information, and that it must be manipulated to create the "true" meaning.)

Most disruptive socks never bother to figure out how to actually accomplish it. But some do.

Those who develop skills sometimes make a mistake and it only takes one to ID them. But they have discovered that the banhammer doesn't hurt at all, and they have practically nothing to lose, if blocked already.

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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:10 pm

There's proving you are free (itself rather pointless given the common knowledge that Wikipedia bans are easily circumvented) and proving they got into your head and melted your brain. Kumioko is a spectacular example of the latter.

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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by Kumioko » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:34 pm

Guido den Broeder wrote:
Dysklyver wrote:The checkuser will always work with an IP since only accounts and IP addresses can be checked.

Firstly the CU puts the account name into the checkuser tool, and gets a list of IPs and useragents.

Then they put the IPs into the CU tool checking each one, getting a list of accounts linked to each.

And so on.


In between, they will access CUwiki where information from previous checks is kept illegally.

Besides the illegally maintained checkuser wiki that violates the UK's laws, a lot of them undoubtedly keep their own notes on their personal hardrives as well.
#BbbGate

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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by Abd » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:47 pm

CrowsNest wrote:There's proving you are free (itself rather pointless given the common knowledge that Wikipedia bans are easily circumvented) and proving they got into your head and melted your brain. Kumioko is a spectacular example of the latter.
This comment is all too typtical for CrowsNest.

Let's start with the first part. "Proving you are free" is connected with the ubiquitious human behavior of avoiding domination. It is probably instinctive, hard-wired. Whether or not it is easy or difficult does not matter. It doesn't need a "point," and the instinct is not satisfied by argument. It's like arguing with a dog that it ''should not'' eat the treat left lying where it can reach it.

Yes, it's easy. So? All the more reason to defy the ban, if it is easy to do so and if it pokes the one wielding the banhammer.

As to the second part, the topic was used as an excuse to slam Kumioko with nothing more than a pure insult, not actually related. His brain was not melted, and his behavior was not from them "getting into his brain and melting it." In fact, were that true, his "victim" story would make a lot more sense, i.e., they caused his behavior."

Who causes what? Well, it depends on whom we want to blame. If there is something BAD, we want to blame someone we don't like, it's like clockwork. Is it BAD that Kumioko socks? In what world and by what standards? To me, the ultimate judge of Kumioko's behavior, as to good and bad, is Kumioko. He's the one who must live with it, most intimately and for the longest time.

Kumioko is clearly reactive, and this is manifest by his claim that the one responsible for his allegedly disruptive behavior here is CrowsNest. Reactivity is very common and quite normal.

He defines himself as powerless though this, even though the appearance is one of defiance, i.e., avoiding domination. But avoiding domination as a reactive response is just a machine operating, and can then be manipulated, easily, by a troll. In other words, the defiance is instinctive, but humans have other possibilities that will create a life far more worth living, than what is possible through letting others push the buttons. The best way to stick it to CrowsNest is to become a full, mature, human being, and demonstrate it. In fact, sometimes, later, when we realize what happened, we might thank someone like CrowsNest for what we were led to do. But that doesn't change his being an asshole, a hater. It's just that reality operates though opposites.

When we wake up, we choose our emotional responses as ones that inspire us and others to all the good stuff, to accomplishments that cannot be doubted by anyone with sanity.

Choose our emotions? What? How does one do that? Don't they just happen? I suggest curiosity on this question would be appropriate if one is interested in personal transformation. Or if you know, how about sharing the knowledge with others?

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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by NadirAli » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:08 pm

JuiceBeetle wrote:3. CheckUser data is retained for 90 days (ca. 3 months) to comply with EU regulations: "This information is only stored for a short period (currently 90 days)"
3a. CheckUsers save this data of users who are on their radar to the private checkuser wiki, that violates this regulation.


I believe it's longer for those who have a long history of sockpuppetry; even if discovered much later. When I was accused of proxy editing by the Indian mob for a banned user called Faizan (who edit warred against me), CU determined we were not related. It was about six months after he was banned for sockpuppetry.

But being a sockpuppeteer is actually much, much easier than everyone thinks and doesn't require much acting. If you look at the history of all my confirmed sockpuppets, it's easy to conclude from their editing history that I made it deliberately obvious that it was me.

I find it much easier and comfortable to edit this way than constantly facing the system gamers/Wiki-lawyers, soap boxers, corrupt administrators and the rigged WP:BUREAUCRACY.

It's also a big help in avoiding getting followed and harassed.

After all this, why should policy still only apply to us and not to them?

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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by NadirAli » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:25 pm

CrowsNest wrote:This advice is out of date.

Wikipedia primarily tracks socks using cookies now. So clear 'em.

I seriously doubt they ever really used IP addresses as the primary identifier. It's always been User Agent strings and behavioral cues.


Partially correct. Range also counts in. They also have access to other info, which I'll only mention privately so as not to give my adversaries involuntary advice on sockpuppetry.

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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by JuiceBeetle » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:31 pm

NadirAli wrote:Wikipedia primarily tracks socks using cookies now.

That's FALSE. WP does not track socks with cookies, only block evasion.

Tracking socks - correctly: alternative accounts, unless abused for voting and consensus manipulation - with cookies would be a preemptive measure to prevent socking by non-professional sockmasters. There is no such functionality in mediawiki.
#Bbbgate

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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by CrowsNest » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:37 pm

JuiceBeetle wrote:
NadirAli wrote:Wikipedia primarily tracks socks using cookies now.

That's FALSE. WP does not track socks with cookies, only block evasion.

Tracking socks - correctly: alternative accounts, unless abused for voting and consensus manipulation - with cookies would be a preemptive measure to prevent socking by non-professional sockmasters. There is no such functionality in mediawiki.
Um, the fuck are you even taking about?

They've had session cookies for years (in violation of EU law), tracking everything from pages visited right down to mouseovers. Deep level shit.

Using it to detect socking required an extra line of code, if that, and it wouldn't be in no publicly readbale module.

The fuck do you think the last major update to the Privacy Policy was for?

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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by NadirAli » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:03 pm

JuiceBeetle wrote:
NadirAli wrote:Wikipedia primarily tracks socks using cookies now.

That's FALSE. WP does not track socks with cookies, only block evasion.

Tracking socks - correctly: alternative accounts, unless abused for voting and consensus manipulation - with cookies would be a preemptive measure to prevent socking by non-professional sockmasters. There is no such functionality in mediawiki.


Just to clarify I didn't make that comment, but what is true is IP is only the first step if the investigation is inconclusive. There's a number of aspects besides IP and behavioral evidence they use to identify a potential sock. Serial sock-puppeteers I know and from my own experience with this practice also know more secrets to this than IP and behavioral evidence.

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Re: How to be a sockpuppeteer

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:54 am

NadirAli wrote:
JuiceBeetle wrote:
NadirAli wrote:Wikipedia primarily tracks socks using cookies now.

That's FALSE. WP does not track socks with cookies, only block evasion.

Tracking socks - correctly: alternative accounts, unless abused for voting and consensus manipulation - with cookies would be a preemptive measure to prevent socking by non-professional sockmasters. There is no such functionality in mediawiki.


Just to clarify I didn't make that comment, but what is true is IP is only the first step if the investigation is inconclusive. There's a number of aspects besides IP and behavioral evidence they use to identify a potential sock. Serial sock-puppeteers I know and from my own experience with this practice also know more secrets to this than IP and behavioral evidence.
You're talking about user agent etc. None of this stuff is a secret, it's all out there, largely because the code is public. You just need to find a well run forum with people who know what they're talking about and want to help the victims of Wikipedia. This place 'ain't that, not any more.

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