Sagecandor/Minassian thread

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sashi
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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by sashi » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:38 pm

Kumioko wrote:Minassian Media doesn't even normally do this type of work.


It's funny that you find out more about the company from the folks who did their branding (and from the Podesta emails) than from Craig & Shawna's own website (which is basically a business card). Minassian is and has been a named donor to the WMF for quite a while: the CF may be an anonymous donor but they haven't shown up on the patron's list in the last few years at least.

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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by sashi » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:39 pm

I was informed recently by PM that Cirt has put on his Sagecandor suit again and locked himself into the wiki-cage. Within 24 hours his talk page was ringing and a case against him had been dismissed from (edited: AN/EW).

I seem to recall Eric lamenting that en.wp had become terribly dull without him. :twisted: I'll try to keep my blubber-suit in the closet. :cry:

Their current mission is pretty unsurprising, very much in line with DNC goals. While I can't entirely disagree with the mission, the methods are as toxic as ever. § Merrick Garland never got a hearing. Neither did I. The Trump Administration withheld all information they could withhold about Kavanaugh, just as the various administrators interacting with the CIRT are withholding any info about them. (cf. Ritchie333 @ (edited: AN/EW), Drmies on the Judge page, etc.)

There's a sekret thread about this all at WPO, in which one tough guy goes so far as to say, "Why I oughtta'... just get some sleep. (Then I'll block him.)"

edited with the correction CN indicates below (not AN/I but AN/EW)
Last edited by sashi on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by CrowsNest » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:32 pm

You're probably already aware, but there was a report on EWW where he was being remarkably submissive. Was kind of sad to see, the depths Wikipedians will go to in order to stay in the game. No need when you have people like Ritchie willing to just make the rules up as he goes along.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring&oldid=860470460#User:Sagecandor_reported_by_User:Winkelvi_(Result:_No_action)

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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by CrowsNest » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:38 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... tions/Cirt

Congratulations to Pudeo, showing Carrite what having a backbone looks like.

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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by Dysklyver » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:41 pm

(Block log); 15:37 . . Bbb23 (talk | contribs) blocked Sagecandor (talk | contribs) with an expiration time of indefinite (account creation blocked) ‎({{checkuserblock-account}}: Abusing multiple accounts: Please see: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Cirt)


Muhhahaha :lol:

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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by CrowsNest » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:44 pm

@Sagecandor: Do you have anything to say?--Bbb23 (talk) 13:52, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

@Bbb23:Responded to you privately by email. Sagecandor (talk) 14:11, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

I find this very sad. Sagecandor's e-mail, which does not deny that he is Cirt, is pathetic for a user with Cirt's experience. He says that the report is "fomented by an offsite attack website" without linking to the site. He says that the IP "information speculation" constitutes WP:OUTING. There is no evidence of OUTING in this report. The IP's edits are described by the filer as background evidence of the connection between it and the two named accounts. In any event, Sagecandor is Confirmed, blocked and tagged. I see no reason to block Cirt unless he resumes editing using that account, in which case I will block him indefinitely if the matter is brought to my attention. Closing.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:43, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
I too find it sad, for different reasons. Basically, justice delayed is justice denied. These people aren't hard to understand, you could have basically guessed with reasonable certainty that was what would be in that email. And yet Sagecandor has been allowed to edit Wikipedia for 682 days, averaging 20 edits a day.

Of course, nobody will now go back over those edits and review them for the sort of issues Cirt has already been sanctioned for. Certainly nobody will be dragging all the Administrators who frustrated attempts to have Sagecandor's editing investigated in for questioning, to establish if they knew of the sock-puppetry. It has happened before, that sort of collusion, and it will happen again.

I hope Sashi isn't stupid enough to think Wikipediodiocracy played any part in this eventual outcome, but I fear he will. Pudeo is the only person who deserves any thanks here. Bbb23 deserves no credit, since he has a long history of blocking people who attempt to bring evidence like this to light on Wikipedia, for reasons that have nothing to do with the strength of the evidence and everything to do with maintaining the culture Sagecandor exploited to frustrate his detractors, people like Sashi. You can read Bbb23's dismay with Cirt as lamenting he wasn't smart enough to leave Bbb23 enough wiggle room to be able not to block him.

This is how these things often go - the most corrupt Administrators among them wait until the very last second, until it is inevitable and inescapable, then place the block so they can look like the ones who are protecting Wikipedia. Not even just the smart ones, even a dumbasss like Ritchie333 has been known to do it. And the muggles who are not party to the deception but are merely the unwitting victims of people like Cirt, fall for it every single time.

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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by sashi » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:44 pm

I'm really surprised they chose to come back for one more circus. I wanted to stay out of it, given my success rate at getting the powers-that-reign to care. ArbCom has had the same evidence Bbb23 acted on for well over a year. But it was decided to let the CIRT squeeze another footnoote into the body, book reports on all of Judge's books. As Earthly Astringent said, the whole affair was pretty much just taunting from whoever is pulling the strings (whether it be the CIRT, or the shadow of the CIRT). When the task was completed, the account was shut down. Simple.

Any bets on whether I'll hear from BU Rob 23 again? My guess is that only Kumioko is worth Arbily addressing; after all, he's the one who can be discredited with the insulting emails he apparently sends. It's kind of fun to count the number who respond to good ol' K; I guess the best way to get Arbs to talk is to insult them?

It's an amazingly upside-down society you have down here, Cap'n Ahab.

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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by CrowsNest » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:38 pm

You should be getting used to being ignored by Wikipedians on that forum by now. I don't know why you don't see it, but literally nobody there cares whether BU Rob answers your query or not. Not even Kumioko, who is more interested in the parallel discussion, even though that is also nominally about being ignored by ArbCom! As I wrote in the recent collaborators thread, this is normal for Wikipediocracy. They're probably ecstatic that he signed up. They nearly have a full set of Arbitrators now.

We will probably never know why the Cirt issue came up again recently. It sounds like Earthly Astringent is just guessing. Who abandons an account with that much credit in the bank, a month before the mid-terms? Sagecandor wasn't the type to deliberately go out of his way to send 'fuck you' messages no matter how subtle. His ability to edit and remove people who tried to stop him, was the 'fuck you'. You don't deliberately blow your cover when attempts to expose you have failed for months, then try to save the articles you wrote. That's just dumb.

Maybe Tarantino and Jake are smart and saw an opportunity with all this Kavanagh controversy to expose the deep roots of bias that pervade Wikipedia, to demonstrate it is so bad that people can evade their rules against bias with impunity as long as they have the right ideology. Maybe they have somehow used their friendly relationships with all these higher ups to learn the names of the Administrators, Functionaries and Arbitrators who knew of Cirt's new account and gave tacit approval, and now they're going to expose them.

Oh no, wait, I'm thinking of what actual Wikipedia critics would do......

My best guess is Tarantino was just bored, saw him editing in a potential bomb factory, and wanted to kick the beehive and see what happened, see if he could get anyone to reveal any personal information. Don't discount the fact Tarantino might have just wanted him out of the way so he could do whatever it is he wants to do in that area, either paid editing or just biased edits of his own. He may have only been aiming for a short diversion. The guy is so shady it could be anything.

Maybe he learned who knew about Cirt and was just pissed off they didn't tell him, so as part of the internal or insider power struggles people are always speculating he is a part of, he decided today was the day they learned the price of not keeping him in the loop.

You know who he wasn't doing it for? You. You know who won't benefit from being proven right? You.

Tarantino doesn't call out the likes of "Alex, Dennis, NYB" for anyone but himself. Indeed, when you look at it, that's a real odd group of users to be calling out, all the high up Wikipedians known precisely for doing nothing when called upon to do something (or worse, doing something stupid). There were more obvious choices if he was looking for someone to properly progress an SPI, or bring this to wider attention.

It definitely looks like he was trying to achieve something other than what actually happened, a random Wikipedian noticing how obvious it was and filing a long overdue SPI. Hopefully Pudeo did that because they felt embarrassed to be associated with the likes of Carrite, who, you will have noticed, was not about to get off his lazy ass despite seeing how obvious it was. The whole damn forum is 99% Wikipedian and they could not be arsed. But then, what's new?

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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:30 am

Now we see the truth. It seems Tarantino finally got interested because he thinks he can link Cirt to a real world person. That's the sort of thing that excites the creepy stalker in him. Not giving any details that people can use to verify one way or the other, of course, just a name. Like all responsible stalkers do.

There's this shit too....
Newyorkbrad, along with various other admins and fuctionaries have seen the relevant threads here. Yet Cirt was allowed to continue manipulating wikipedia to the detriment of his political foes.
That probably has something to do with your policy of not doing anything about it, no?

NewYorkBrad can swan in and out of the forum at will, ignore who he wants, talk about what he wants. I've even seen him get away with claiming he isn't welcome, and nobody on staff corrected that obvious lie.

Is it any wonder then, that they feel under no pressure whatsoever to action items that are known by Wikipediocracy to be needing action? It never used to be the case. The ArbCom leaks showed they were always mindful of not being seen to ignore the critics, even if what they did wasn't exactly aligned with their wishes. But they did something, because they had something to fear back then.

Back then, even doing nothing was usually the result of a wisely chosen course of action to save your own skin. Now it is merely the default because who the fuck on Wikipedia, apart from the easily ignored yapping puppy dog Kumioko, has anything to fear from these fanboys? Indigestion from all the welcome cake and a sore penis from all the welcome blowjobs.

Now all they have are the likes of Ming, Poetlister, Carrite and Jake. The only people they pose a threat to, are genuine critics of Wikipedia. Anyone who dares make their precious Wikipedia guests and fellow posters feel sad about their life choices.

These motherfuckers. They're the people who are ensuring that more often than not, it is random Wikipedians who come out of situations looking like they did the right thing. In the BetaCommand scenario, it was a hated Wikipedian who ended up with the credit for busting that sock bastard, while the corrupt fuck Black Kite was on Wikipediocracy bemoaning the fact he could only use his status as a Wikipedia Administrator to delay his detection by a year or more. All infront of some of the Arbitrators who had already Admonished him once for being a bad Admin.

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Re: Sagecandor/Minassian thread

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:22 am

Poor Beeblebrox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =862047492

That's the 'fuck you' right there.

What measures does Wikipedia employ to make sure highly relevant observations like this are kept visible for the record when, as it seems will be the case, he files an appeal after just six months holiday in the Costa-del-WikiQuote.....
Can we clear something up here? Are you contesting the finding that this account is a sock of Cirt? Because if you aren’t then as a former admin you know perfectly well what’s going on and how the standard offer works and this is basically just an act. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:24, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
Beeblebrox is over at Wikipediocracy right now telling everyone about his crap memory, aggravated as it is by how many issues he deals with as an Administrator, so simply hoping he will remember (or even be around) doesn't seem viable.

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