Fram

Editors, Admins and Bureaucrats Oh my!
Post Reply
User avatar
CrowsNest
Sucks Maniac
Posts: 4459
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:42 pm

Fram has perhaps pissed off one user too many this time around. He is concurrently facing the threat of an ArbCom request he has filed against Dr. Blofeld actually boomeranging on him, as well as an actual attempt at a community led desysop, initiated by Jaguar, who has been blocked before by Fram and who is of course, a great friend of Blofeld.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&oldid=829107597

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Request_for_desysop_of_Fram

Several idiots have long assumed there's nothing the community can do to desysop a poorly performing admin, it has to go to ArbCom, but this has always been bullshit, an excuse issued by cowards too afraid to enforce their own policies when it concerns the people they mistakenly trusted to do just that.

As has already been pointed out in the latter, if the community established a clear consensus that Fram is not meeting WP:ADMIN, then ArbCom or a Bureaucrat couldn't possibly refuse to do the community's bidding and remove their tools. Alternatively, the discussion can be closed with a voluntary prohibition against using their tools, and if they ignore it, another admin would block them, and if they then unblocked themself, it would lead to a swift desysop by ArbCom motion. And if a different admin unblocked in defiance of the community, then you can almost guarantee another would re-block just to force a WHEELWAR condition, which of course automatically gets ArbCom involved to kill everyone.

With all that said, Fram has an uncanny knack of escaping any kind of actual consequences for his particular style of adminship, so don't count your chickens yet. This time tomorrow, through sheer force of will he might have found a way to have Jaguar, Blofeld and all of ArbCom blocked, and have himself annointed as Jimbo's replacement as GodKing.

User avatar
CrowsNest
Sucks Maniac
Posts: 4459
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:24 pm

Unsurprisingly, a dipshit of an admin has just unilaterally shut Jaguar's effort down.....
Unfortunately the community does not have the authority to desysop admins, so discussing here is fruitless. Please file an ArbCom request. This close does not factor whether or not this report has merit.—CYBERPOWER (Chat) 18:50, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
He's lying. At best, this statement is only correct in the literal sense that ordinary editors cannot ultimately flip the switch. Smart people will however realise that the people who can, are every bit a part of the "community" as everyone else, and their basic role is to serve the wider community of ordinary editors.

Not even Fram tried to weasel out of this by claiming the wider community has no such power, and quite right too, he would be a fool to do so.
Basically, you are just throwing lots and lots of mud in the hope that it will stick and that people will see "oh, so many diffs, there must be something there". Stick to the ones that you truly believe to be problematic and which preferably aren't many years old, and then people can fairly judge if there is a case to answer here or not.
Wikipedia will continue to die if they don't address this serious problem they have with institutional cowardice. They want ArbCom to do everything for them, even though they keep proving they're pretty crap at doing anything, and it always takes them three times as long as is necessary to do it.

User avatar
Jaguar
Sucks Noob
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:59 pm

Re: Fram

Post by Jaguar » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:55 pm

Just like to throw this out—I've been a member of this forum for quite a while but have never posted. This is a hell of a better than Wikipediocracy and the criticism of Wikipedia here is something I can align myself with. In a way it makes me feel happier that we're in the same boat.

I never wanted to return to Wikipedia. My motivation was at an all time low and I truly felt uplifted when I stopped editing. I felt like a fool to come back to the cultists, but when I saw Fram was being his usual obnoxious self I couldn't just sit there that time. By all means they need to revoke his admin privileges. He doesn't have the temperament to keep them. It's sad that his behaviour is synonymous with that of Wikipedia itself.

I don't know what to do. The sensible thing would be to never edit again, which I'll gladly do. Unlike most of the cultists I've broken free from my addiction and saw how horribly masochist the place is. Why was the desysop request met with such vitriol? I can't say I'm surprised, but it's still baffling.

User avatar
CrowsNest
Sucks Maniac
Posts: 4459
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:34 am

Now opened and closed again. Pathetic.
This isn't going to go anywhere. If you're really serious about this, WP:ARBCOM is thataway. ansh666 22:09, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
It won't go anywhere if you keep closing it, geniuses.

These fucknuts are punting it to ArbCom, at the exact same time ArbCom are showing their collective uselessness by only being prepared to accept an ArbCom case on Fram if it is submitted exactly to their liking. This is despite the fact that so far, the following has been said by editors about Fram in that Request.....
-Fram's conduct regarding this issue—and other recent disputes with which he's been involved—has been an atrocious mix of unnecessary overpersonalization, extreme defensiveness when challenged, lashing out at anyone he feels isn't sufficiently agreeing with him, and a general attitude that his opinions are invariably correct and it's his duty to bludgeon them through regardless of opposition. (Iridescent)

-I believe there is enough gravitas for a case on Fram, even if past community actions have not been attempted. The length of poor behaviour, especially recently, is good enough for me. (Dave)

-I have found Fram to be a more confrontational personality who does not collaborate particularly well. On a number of occasions I have observed that Fram has a difficult time not engaging in personal attacks (Montanabw)

-There have been numerous complaints about Fram’s approach to dispute resolution (especially in tech-related matters) and to adminship (for example, this declined ArbCom case request just a month ago: [23] and the Wikidata request [24].) I do not think that it is premature to consider an ArbCom case examining their battleground conduct (as unbecoming of an administrator), though I suspect I may be an outlier here. (Rschen7754)

- I think there's likely a perfectly reasonable rationale for accepting, if the case is seen as the latest symptom of a growing rift between Fram and the community at large, and their own continued tone deaf responses, including the filing of this case itself. (GMG)

-I feel the main issue here is WP:ADMINACCT, esp. the first two bullet points (bad faith and attacks).....Many editors at AN and in this very case have raised concerns about the conduct by Fram. (Lugnuts)

-Case should be accepted but only to consider Fram's behaviour under WP:ADMINACCT (Legacypac)

-The WP:BOOMERANG concern regarding Fram might be ready for the committee; recent case requests involving Ymblanter and Gatoclass (diffs already included above) suggest that this behavior may be a long-running concern (power-enwiki)

-Fram's attitude here is reminiscent of Gatoclass'. Both strawmanning their opposition and showing disdain for criticism of their behaviour. (Mr rnddude)
ArbCom is being absolutely tone deaf to there being an obvious issue here.

Of course, Black Kite is a fan.....
[Fram is] an admin who is almost always a net positive
.....although he is the same dumb shit who still thinks Betacommand was a net positive.

As is usual, it is the elder statesman of ArbCom who demonstrates just how useless they really are....
I urge Fram to carefully consider the feedback he is receiving here and on both AN/ANI threads, and to moderate his approach to raising concerns even when he believes he has identified a significant problem. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:24, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
As if that hasn't been tried before!

User avatar
Kumioko
Sucks Mod
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:54 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Fram

Post by Kumioko » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:18 am

This case simply shows the admins of Wikipedia, yet again, circling the wagons to do everything in their power to distract attention away from Fram being the net negative, problematic admin he is. He lives for debate and he doesn't care about anything else in the Wikipedia project other than finding cases he can litigate and unfortunately, his track record for winning those debates is a good one.
#BbbGate

User avatar
ericbarbour
Sucks Admin
Posts: 2154
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:56 am
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 269 times

Re: Fram

Post by ericbarbour » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:05 am

FWIW myself and others have tried to out Fram for a long time. He's so bonkers that he successfully covered up his real identity, ever after 15 years of trolling people on various websites. He's from Buggenhout, Belgium; he's a Smurfs fan; an amateur astronomer; and a raving hypocrite (well, of course). Plus he harasses people like a possessed man, was a major reason why Ed my co-author was pushed off Wikipedia in 2010. In no possible way can Fram be "trusted" or relied upon to do humane or rational things as since 2014 he's been shrieking about how evil Arbcom is and attacking WMF employees, after previous years of sucking up to those same people. And this week he's trying to destroy Dr. Blofeld by posting thousands of words of semi-coherent denunciation on the arbitration request board. How "autistic" of him. PM me if you want to see more of my notes on the fool.

http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtop ... 966#p34966
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... view_log=1

He admitted on the Bad Astronomy forum that "FRAM" is the first three letters of his first name, and the initial of his last name. Make of that what you can.

If he has accounts on the French or Dutch Wikipedias, he has done a remarkable job of covering them up.


Fram is BAD NEWS. Period.

User avatar
Kumioko
Sucks Mod
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:54 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Fram

Post by Kumioko » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:48 pm

It also looks like they might be started to do some initial work on dragging User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao down next.
#BbbGate

User avatar
CrowsNest
Sucks Maniac
Posts: 4459
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:16 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=829271423

He's had a revelation - he now recognises he's been a bit of a jerk recently and wants to get back to good old blunt but fair Fram.

He's rattled. This is a classic move of a seasoned Wiki political animal. He's telling them just enough to avert the threat of something serious happening, and not one syllable more.

As if this guy didn't know exactly what he was doing every single time he pressed 'submit'. He's not a retard and he's not impetuous. He's a calculating son of a bitch, whose tempter tantrums are actually pretty mild compared to the average Wikipedian.

User avatar
Guido den Broeder
Sucks
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:45 pm

Re: Fram

Post by Guido den Broeder » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:08 pm

If he has accounts on the French or Dutch Wikipedias, he has done a remarkable job of covering them up.


He has occasionally posted as 'Fram' on nl:Wikipedia, canvassing support for his harassment of me. I doubt he has any alternative accounts, as he considers himself untouchable.

User avatar
CrowsNest
Sucks Maniac
Posts: 4459
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:20 pm

(further to the above details about community led desysopping)

It's like watching a newborn deer learn to walk.....
How to make Wikipedia's collective mind implode
The community can enact for a TBAN that's pretty much tailored in scope to whatever there's consensus for, as far as I'm aware, with no practical policy based restrictions. It is therefore in theory possible for the community to TBAN a sysop from doing any administrative action whatsoever (although something like viewing deleted revisions would be outside any practical scope without an admission), effectively enacting a community neutering, and justifying a bona fide desysop case if they violated the ban without getting prior approval from the community to lift it.

I don't think I've even ever heard someone joke about it, but if there was ever a situation where someone screwed up so badly there would be consensus for it (and yet ArbCom refused to do anything about it), as far as I know, there isn't anything anywhere in policy that would actually prevent it. You know, just in case ArbCom does one day decide to totally lose their marbles. GMGtalk 17:30, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
Yes, they have the power. And yes, you should be afraid. But no, it really shouldn't blow anyone's mind, BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING OBVIOUS!

Post Reply