Fram

[CrowsNest]

Seriously, ArbCom have literally hung up the "Shop Closed" sign.

How do you let a question like this, posted on your own goddamned noticeboard....

My query is intended to be in general terms "is the immediate crisis more or less over?" -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:15, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

.....go unanswered for over twelve hours?

In what Universe are these people, this Committee or the dysfunctional community they claim to represent, entitled to even talk about how the WMF must let en.wiki know, via their own dedicated en.wiki noticeboard, anything that they plan to do that might frighten or confuse them? Which is basically everything.

Where is the community outrage that their own goddamned self-government is quite happy to hide when it is convenient, or indeed just not pay enough attention to the fact that even if you are doing something, when people have literally no way to tell if you are doing anything, or whether you have all just suffocated to death in your secret bunker, it's kind of a problem.

I have a proposal. A simple script that notifies the community the last time any Arbitrator posted on their internal mailing list or wiki. Call it the dead / not dead monitor.

You geniuses can manage that, right? Or do you need an WMF programmer for that too? There might be one left in the building. Remember not to tell them the request is related to helping you return Fram to duty. Not if you want it expedited this year.

Stupid Foundation. They had absolutely nothing to gain from assuming these people were responsible, reasonable or even rational. The Foundation is basically the legal operator of a giant creche.

You know when you assign one of the older children to look after the younger ones while you leave them home alone because you need to go rob the local corner shop to make rent? That's en.wiki self-government. If they start trying to supplant you as the primary care giver, just burn the house down. Maybe you warn the children of their impending fiery doom first, then again, maybe you don't. Depends if you actually care about them, I guess. Can always source new kids, right. That's how it works, no? Or have I misunderstood the basic economic model of the Wikipedia sweatshop?

[CrowsNest]

When the older kids have simply fucked off down the pub, or gone to see the doctor about that rash, you just know one of the orphans is gonna die in a tragic accident.

Parenting. Tough gig. Generally why it is considered only a job for responsible adults.

[CrowsNest]

Wikipediocracy's bin diving has had one beneficial side effect, for the HTD cause.

Thanks to their obsession to prove Fram was right to beat on her, now the English Wikipedia community knows the true consequences of harassing people they merely suspect might have reported one of their powerful Administrators to the Foundation. Hale, wife of the Chair of the Board of Trustees, was a significant contributor to WikiNews. Her vanishing from en.wiki to escape the vicious hordes whipped up by Wikipediocracy might go unnoticed in terms of production there, but her also vanishing from wikinews, well, that leaves a huge vacuum, one unlikely to be filled.

Wikinews isn't Wikipedia, it isn't a place where any random asswipe can just turn up and replace whatever selfish turd has decide they want to go do something else, it is a place aiming for a certain level of commitment and professionalism, the sort seen in the real news business that they hope to replicate using the volunteer magic. A necessary part of any movement aiming to be a knowledge service. It is obviously not a project where 'fuck it, who cares who leaves, someone will get around to it in the next decade', is a viable attitude to community health or editor retention.

Now, the en.wiki turds can act like that doesn't matter to them if they want, and indeed that would be an example of them staying true to their ideology of en.wiki localism, as embodied so well by Fram, if they want. Wikinews is after all a complete failure precisely because it was ludicrous to ever think there was space in the movement to attract volunteers to cover news and current events, in the shadow of English Wikipedia, whose NOTNEWS policy is routinely ignored.

Not content with simply denying them sunlight though, the toxic form of localism of en.wiki as practiced by the entrenched Administrators, the Bishonen's et al, of course meant they actively took measures to destroy their little brother, not letting them share toys, pretending they couldn't hear them, asking them why they were hitting themselves. Bullying, basically. Quel surprise, for a project where tackling bullying among their own users wasn't exactly on the to do list.

But I think, if the en.wiki community got their heads out of their asses for a second and really thought about it, then they might actually realize that to not have been severely punished by the Foundation or other volunteers not so enamoured by en.wiki, for such a destructive reaction to their attempt to stop exactly this sort of movement poisoning toxicity, is pretty lucky.

To leave the whole inquest into the impact of and lessons to be learned from the FRAMBAN debacle to people who literally don't give a tiny rat's shit about any project except en.wiki, certainly seems like corporate negligence to me.

Who knows. Maybe not negligence at all. Just a holding action. As the saying goes, revenge is a dish best served cold.

So here's a tip, for those people who might fear further nuclear strikes on the local village supposedly built for local people. You make sure your village elders are made aware of the true cost of Administrator Black Kite and other notable scumbags directing people's attention to the conspiracy theories of Wikipediocracy, who have and still are mercilessly pursuing Hale.

You make sure you expect them to take notice of it, and make sure they know you won't be accepting any guff about how that stuff is out of scope for their local investigation of local things and local misconduct, because they were handed the case by the Foundation, and you can bet your damn life Globally Banning Black Kite would have been in the scope of their investigation.

[CrowsNest]

The resistance......

SusunW, my read of communications from the WMF is that if they have learned anything out of this debacle, it is that "stepping in" is something which should never be repeated. The English Wikipedia is self-governing and editorially independent, even from the WMF, and that is absolutely not negotiable. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:51, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

It is no problem for them to work with the community. (They should have been to begin with.) Our goals are to write an encyclopedia. If that's theirs too, great. If it's anything else, including to right any wrongs, then any "stepping in" will result in them being frog-marched right back out again, just as happened here. WMF does not run this project, it provides certain services to it. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:47, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Seriously, WMF Board, why on Earth did you take these people seriously?

Deluded doesn't even cover this nonsense.

Was it Jimmy? Did he feed you some bullshit predictions? Because you might want to look into his record of accurately predicting what the community will and won't do in response to any given input. He's a guy whose every word has been routinely ignored by the community for years, precisely because they genuinely believed they were mature and responsible enough to handle their business. Until of course he jumped into this mess looking to play the hero, whereupon they suddenly reversed their long standing view and once again hailed him as their lifetime President, empowered to give you corporate bastards both barrels on their behalf.

The community thinks they won. Business as usual. There are editors who disagree obviously, but their opinion matters to the toxic heart of the community even less than it did before. That's what happens when you give these people an inch, expecting them to understand the written word. They happily ignore it, and take a mile. This is the community. Seeing things the way they want and damn any contraindications, carries no penalty whatsoever. The beauty of being a Wikipedia volunteer - zero responsibility. Zero.

In theory, we should have known why Bishonen did what she did as soon as he did it. Go have a look. See if you can make head nor tail of her assorted explanations. The community does not care. Never have, never will. She is empowered by the community to tell whatever lies she needs to, or just completely ignore people, as long as she succeeds in fighting the designated enemy. That's you people.

After once again regaling the hordes of her victory over Jimmy back in the day when he was still actively trying to enforce minimal standards, off she went, on her holidays. She knew there would be nothing going on in wikiland that would remotely require her to testify, and she was right. Her first edit back, she was right back on her favourite hobby horse - how to limit the effectiveness of ArbCom and leave the important decisions to Power Admins like her.

Even though, as you saw, when fellow Power Admin Fram decided her warning in May to cut out the personal stuff could be safely ignored, because she was only posturing - no way would she ever actually do anything about an Administrator charging ArbCom with incompetence - she proved him right. She did nothing. Left you with the problem, then spat in your face when you dealt with it. They all know what each other is and is not going to do. They all know the advantages of being left alone to police the mob. They know what works, and what doesn't. Corruption works. Populism works. Bullying works.

How long will sensible people have to wait, people who have read and understand pages like WP:ADMIN, before the inevitable corrective action has to be taken, and the system starts working how it's supposed to? You simply cannot expect leadership or principle to emerge organically from this toxic pool. It doesn't work that way. If people like Bishonen don't want it, it doesn't happen. That is the way they govern themselves.

Maher and her staff will be rebuffed at every turn, if it is even really true that she's been asked to work with the community to fix the things that are clearly broken. Eternal optimist Jimmy thinks this how it all works, but that's rather the point. Did he forget that he actually lost when he faced down Bishonen? The beginning of the end of any authority he had in the community.

This time next year, Bishonen will still be an Administrator, and that will be the biggest signal to sensible people that nothing has changed, that the community is still being allowed to make a mockery of the very idea they are meant to have certain principles and minimum standards.

[Graaf Statler]

If Jimmy is standing for the firing squad is the only thing he is thinking about what he will eat next Christmas, even if the guns are unlocked and it"s waiting for the command fire. Why? Because Jimmy is missing the function if-then, a very simple commando on the first computers like the Sinclair computer from the 80's.

And that is because Jimmy is missing something what most wikipedians are missing too, insight. The ability to see the relationships between thinks. No learn path. making the same mistake over and over and over. trying again the same medicine what never has worked before. Driving beside the road and pedal to the metal, full speed strait into the ravin. And that makes Jimmy complete unsuitable for his roll as frontman. Look guy's there is a deep, deep ravin with a nice river down there. Just lets have a swim, full throttle. That is Jimmy boy at it's best.

Does no one else see this?

[CrowsNest]

GW seems to have been given the role of Committee Secretary/Mother.....so much for gender equality!

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am of the opinion that we at least have a way forward on this particular issue (Fram). The question of how the WMF, the Arbitration Committee, and the rest of the community will balance dealing with these kinds of issues in the future is still somewhat open in my mind, but the WMF has indicated they will not continue to make actions like this for now at least. GorillaWarfare (talk) 15:49, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks everyone who's commented here! Your feedback has been really valuable, and I appreciate you taking the time to give it. We are still discussing how to move forward with opening the case, and will provide updates as we're able. For those who've asked, we are aware that Fram plans to be unavailable for the last two weeks of the month. GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:00, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Interminable delay. Nothing decided at all. No indication when it will be.

Business as usual for en.wiki ArbCom. Are the community outraged? Or course not. It's crap, but it's their crap.

The one Case that is actually open, has already been delayed two weeks. They're trying to blame Fram, but to be honest, that sort of indifference to published deadlines, and the affect on the people involved, has been par for the course since forever.

Candidates always promise reform to somehow prevent these chronic issues of basic bad management and poor communication, but it never comes.

This is Wikipedia self-government. Shit.

[Graaf Statler]

GorillaWarfare is in no way qualified for such a job and the rest of arbcom also not. Someone like she who is saying T&S did such a fantastic job in the past is just a naive fool, what she is.

O, she is sweet with her cats and cat rescuing, but this is all one big fart in the air. And the only wise thing what Arbcom can do is just saying to crazy Jan fuck yourself and get lost to Germany. Just like I say keep your wiki shit in the United States if you like it so much but get lost out of Holland with your illegal shit. Get lost here, and otherwise I give you a hand to get lost. In the hardest way, so they are warned. I simple don't tolerate this crap here.

[CrowsNest]

Further to this.....

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/vie ... 608#p10608

.....it is hilarious to note Floquenbeam (and he claims WJScribe also) don't intend to take advantage of the community's flagrant abuse of IAR to de-cloud their resignations. Oh no. If they decide to ask for it, they want the full ceremonial - a landslide RfA/RfB.

It's all about their egos. They're desperate for the recognition of having done something absolutely outrageous, but only because they knew the Wikipedia community are such a bunch of absolute bastards, they wouldn't care one bit.

Any suggestion these people took a risk to stand up for a principle, is false. They correctly judged that the community are as disreputable as they are. Bishonen knew it as well, the very idea she would actually risk her status on something that wasn't a sure bet, is laughable. Any doubts she may have had, were taken care of in how she manufactured an excuse that meant she couldn't go first as she had claimed, leaving Floquenbeam to be the guinea pig. Also, not resigning to further the principle, tends to negate the need to reapply, should that principle have backfired badly. Handy that.

[Graaf Statler]

Lies, corruption, cowardice and mob rule, that is where it is all about. Madam Gender wrote this:

And Wikipedia? A police state where the admins, instead of enforcing the policy, now believe they have the authority to create policy through banning and blocking people whose criticism they do not agree with. So now it only remains to be seen which pogroms, this time against women, and anyone who defends them, will gain traction with which Wikipedia criticism sites, and which ones will end up backing “business as usual” and the abusive and authoritarian rule of the ‘old boyz club’.

Link
Of course the Wikipediocrazyans wanted us to believe the FramBan was the work of two lady's who had misused there power and had formed a a conspiracy. Of course the world had to believe Statler is a psychotic wrack who closes woman up in toy train toilets with his perverse mind.
Press, friends of the press shouted Timmy boy, look what we have! look what we have found. Well, Timmy it is about time the press hear the plain true, and nothing but the true.

Fram SanFanBanned for uncivil, what a joke! And what about professor Drmies, Professor CaAL, the troll Arb Vinvlugt, gender lady Elly, free loader Danielle (WMNL) with here love for little Ymnes boy and the rest of the Dutch gang? When will they be SanFanBanned? And MoiraMoira posthumously? Uncivil. they have not even a clue what the word civil means.
No, Fram is blocked for his critical voice by sysop who are ruling wikipedia with troll power. The believers in pirate flags and wikidata, stealing protected material on a industrial scale and capitalise it. Like they are doing now for years and years as modern Robin Hood, running around as modern cowboys with there SanFanBan lasso's.

This bullshit doesn't belong in the kingdom the Netherlands lady's and gentleman, you make a good change to end here in Holland up in a prison. Just stop with this nonsense, because you are standing right in the middle of the spot.

[CrowsNest]

We're not getting credit for sticking up for the real victims and calling out Wikipediocracy for their part in making a bad situation horrifically worse?

Colour me surprised.

Fram was banned for harassmsent. Conducted against several users, and despite warnings. Simple as that. There will be no revolution. It is business as usual, indeed the toxic elements of en.wiki now seem even more emboldened to take their toxicity and [url=https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Érico&diff=prev&oldid=357988872]spread it[/url] to sister sites, resulting in cross wiki harassment of an Administrator merely doing their job.

Toxic behaviour across multiple wikis? Local enforcement at their en.wiki home being entirely ineffective, in part due to the prevailing culture of assholes are cool, and in part due to the extraordinary protection offered to such users by powerful Administrators like Bishonen, and a hamstrung en.wiki ArbCom that either can't or won't deal with even their most vile editors? That's the stuff of a global ban.

If anything significant happens, it is likely to only be another crackdown when the Foundation realizes they've been played by Jimmy who somehow sweet talked them into trusting the en.wiki community to get its house in order. I'll be highlighting that here, while she pisses around writing about seventeenth Century paintings or whatever.