Fram

[CrowsNest]

Look who finally decided to turn up as well.......

As long as I'm here, I'll just say I agree with Floquenbeam's recent addition.[6] What he says goes for me too. Bishonen | talk 10:00, 22 June 2019 (UTC).

Quel surprise.

So, Bishonen's first reason for her use of the tools was WP:WHEEL. It was absurd, of course, it wouldn't have withstood any kind of interrogation. Hence why it appears to have been completely discarded in favour of piggybacking on Floquenbeam's wholly ridiculous explanations.

Let them stand together if they want. Put one in front of the other, and you only need to use one bullet. Speaking metaphorically of course.

ArbCom, you have not one but two Administrators here who are admitting they abused their community granted tools for political purposes, to force the WMF to respect some bullshit campaign for self rule. What part of WP:ADMIN does that fall under? The WMF have clearly decided to test your ability to effect self-government within the constraints that you're not actually an independent entity in any meaningful sense, by leaving it up to you to decide what the appropriate community penalties are for such acts of clear and obvious rebellion.

You're going to properly fuck it up aren't you? Seriously drop the ball, like you dropped the ball with Fram. More like not even attempt to catch the ball.

Having become dissatisfied with her Courtiers efforts to persuade you, Bishonen has finally heft her Royal Bulk before you, but only to tell you that you don't even have the power to say all future instances of such insurrection will be met with serious consequences. That you lack the authority to make such a declaration, as the elected government of en.wiki.

This fits entirely with her belief that ArbCom should not exist all. She rejects their authority as much as she rejects the WMF. She hates anyone who might pose a threat to her Royal Perogative.

How ironic that she uses the policy which says ArbCom decisions have to evolve over time to reflect current circumstances, to argue this decision at this time, would be improper. In an environment where rogue Administrators are trying to set the precedent that abuse of their tools to override the WMF's clearly stated wishes as a forerunner to some imagined future en.wiki policy that allows "civil disobedience", it is clearly entirely proper.

Let her propose this future policy if she truly wants it. The snake that she is, she will not. She never does. Such things are beneath a Queen. You'd think even those with designs on true autonomy and self-governance for the en.wiki would bridal at such an obvious Fascist maneuvering to be their leader in the aftermath of this revolution. But no. They're just that stupid.

En.wiki is already a captured community that habitually looks the other way when Queen Bishonen is wiping her Royal Ass on WP:ADMIN and any number of other policies. I would suggest the WMF is only going to start buying more black helicopters and sniper rifles if it gets even the slightest hint that en.wiki ArbCom has been similarly captured.

[CrowsNest]

.....it's far more likely that T&S received a handful of spurious complaints on the basis of a coordinated campaign by people with grudges, took the complaints at face value and acted without investigating, and are now too proud to admit they fucked up and are trying to invent post hoc justifications, but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility. ‑ Iridescent 09:24, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

I repeat, it is simply not possible to even have a discussion with people this purposefully willing to delude themselves.

Do these fucknuts genuinely not see the credibility problem here, that when they can say shit like this, we're meant to believe they're happy with leaving serious issues like child protection to what would be an entirely incompetent body in their view?

Fuck off.

Just have the guts to admit what is really going on. You don't like the decision, and being Wikipedians, you're conditioned to believe the only rational explanation is incompetence. Understandable when you see it all around you in your own clown car version of self-government, but these people are paid to do a job. They have bosses, they have legal obligations. THEY SHOWED YOU THE FLOWCHART.

At this point, all you can realistically claim is your actual objection, if your claims are to be given credence, is a widespread and actually VERY CRIMINAL conspiracy. Something with very real consequences for all involved.

There are many aspects of their ban decisions that will not stand up in court, as we will hopefully see when they face Abd, but these aspects are sadly not what you are (mostly) annoyed about. Your gripe is not with the process, it is with the conclusion.

A shitheel like Iridescent, an actual Wikipedia Administrator remember, faces absolutely no consequences for splurging this shit all over Wikipedia, day after day. That's why he does it. That's why he will never leave.

The scary part is, he's at the moderate end of the revolutionaries. If you were to actually sit down and negotiate with the separatists, you'd have to also deal with absolute fruit loops like this......

I've been around for 14 years and close on 100K edits. I'd dearly like to relinquish my admin tools over this, but the WMF would rejoice. I can probably do more harm (figuratively speaking) to the WMF's hypocrisy by keeping them. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:29, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

I've had several tough, important battles with the WMF - on-Wiki, off-Wiki, and at conferences. I (we) won them all. The WMF doesn't like losing face to us unpaid skivvies. Swarm knows what I mean. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:12, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

I think it's just a big cock-up. Eissfeld himself has admitted he is in charge but doesn't have a clue what his department is doing, and the people or person in charge of Eissfeld probably don't know what he is doing - or supposed to be doing. ..... All they believe is that because they get paid they are more intelligent than the 1,000s of graduates who are building this encyclopedia for free. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:32, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Herein lies the truth behind these calls for autonomy. For these shitheads, it is no more refined or developed than the very very old idea that the people dumb enough to give their time to build Wikipedia, are in some way owed something back. Not responsibility for stuff like child protection or other serious issues of legal compliance, no, but everything else that can be considered as the benefits of "work" to "produce" something they laughingly want to be seen as "knowledge".

You knew what you signed up for, so go fuck yourselves, is the only rational response. As history has shown, you say anything else, give them any idea their bullshit carries weight, they will just redouble their efforts, say and indeed do even more ridiculous things. All using the platform they don't own and didn't pay for.

I'm all for some model where ownership of the servers is distributed according to what value readers put on the content that is on it. But as we know already, the WMF already did the research - it turns out readers don't want the sort of niche crap Iridescent spends his days compiling, as his hobby (that being the difference between a job and a hobby, you get to do what you like, not what the bosses say "pays the bills"). Readers want stuff you would expect to see in an encyclopedia, unsurprisingly. The WMF called him out for it, publicly, and he's been crying about it ever since.

[CrowsNest]

If Wikipedia was governing itself properly, Kudpung would have been banned years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... _at_Arbcom

Seriously, how many policies that en.wiki supposedly holds sacrosanct, does that one brief little window in to this freak's brain actually breach?

NPA? BLP? AGF? ADMIN?

How about we just say what it really breaches.....

WP:ASSHOLE.

....oh no, wait. Ah yes, now I see why adoption of that policy got stuck in eternal draft space.

Wikipedia is what it is today because people like Kudpung and Iridescent were early adopters in the growth phase, as Wikipedia grew beyond the ability of one man to lead and manage, but was still small enough that nobody in the real world thought to seriously check the credentials, much less the character and motives, of the people seeking its high offices.

They will probably never ever recover from that mistake, it is well known Wikipedia has only become even more set in its ways since 2009. The only major transformations now, reinforce what clearly doesn't work, if measuring what works as stuff that grows participation, diversifying users and content, and makes Wikipedia into an actual encyclopedia. Hence all efforts these days toward those ends, are organized outside of en.wiki, even if those doing it are merely en.wiki volunteer editors with no deeper commitments to the cult (but notably, many are not).

FRAMBAN is one such instance of the real stakeholders trying to recover lost ground, especially now en.wiki is an increasingly small part of the interconnected whole. Hence why these shitheels are fighting them tooth and nail, trying to regain the power and influence that Wikipedia of 2007 gave random shithead hobbyists like them, and which they totally abused.

[Carrite]

Wikipedia is what it is today because people like Kudpung and Iridescent were early adopters in the growth phase, as Wikipedia grew beyond the ability of one man to lead and manage, but was still small enough that nobody in the real world thought to seriously check the credentials, much less the character and motives, of the people seeking its high offices.

That's a slogan, not an honest reckoning of real history.

After about March 2001 Wikipedia was never small enough for "one man to lead and manage." And Sanger was in over his head even before. Sure, he and JW — TWO men — cobbled together some early policies, policies which have more or less remained in place from those early months forward. But "lead and manage" — that's just a rhetorical device about a time that never was.

RfB

[Graaf Statler]

Commons, CC-BY-SA-4.0

[CrowsNest]

Boing! has now resigned. Since his resignation statement is riddled with obvious lies, and bizarrely seems to suggest it is en.wiki practice to only ban for harassment if it is recent, I think the WMF are going to be mighty pleased. Cleaning house is going very well.

That theory that the WMF threw this grenade precisely so this sort of sub-par Admin would fuck off in protest, maybe wasn't so outlandish after all.

[CrowsNest]

But what was so unique about this case that the WMF trampled over community dispute resolution processes? It's really not a difficult question. Black Kite (talk) 23:27, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Putting aside the fact Fram is just pretty unique all round, who said there needs to be anything unique about his case before the WMF could accept it? The fact he had been through the local process multiple times, satisfied the jurisdiction paperwork side of things.

The WMF said as plain as day, they were intent on sending a message to en.wiki about their failure to ensure minimum standards were being upheld. If the import of your statement is there were lots of other poorly performing Administrators who had been repeatedly let off that they could have chosen, well, you're rather proving their need to send a message.....but of course if you are intent on sending a message, you make sure to target a big fish, to make a big splash.

[CrowsNest]

These people are shameless.....

Serving in a regime where you can be excommunicated for behaviour without actually being told how your behaviour is unacceptable is untenable, and quite frankly, absurd. ...... –xenotalk 19:38, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

HEY DICKHEAD.

Global bans have been a thing for years, and they can be applied for any reason, including no reason at all (as confirmed to the courts by the WMF's very expensive lawyer from Jones Day). Whatever the reason, it is kept secret, as in totally secret, unlike Fram's pissant ban. And yes, unlike Fram's pissant ban, these things are permanent. Unlike an actual excommunication, there's nothing a globally banned person can do to end their exile.

You've been serving that absurd regime quite happily all along. So you're pissed now one of your own has been shafted?

Go fuck yourself with a rusty hacksaw blade.

Literally nobody outside your little cult will have any sympathy, not after they realise Fram's case is not a clear and obvious miscarriage, even less when they see the reactions of your supposedly mature community that thinks it should have autonomy for dealing with harassment complaints. That is why most of you freaked out when it was suggested to TELL THE WORLD about this supposed horrific injustice. You've realized the NPOV write-up doesn't paint you in a great light at all.

[CrowsNest]

Now the Fram issue is being used to let Eric Corbett off of a blatant breach of his RfA topic ban....

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =903013074

How's that work?

I wonder if these idiots will ever realise, the WMF are looking for precisely this sort of evidence of their local processes being subverted because certain local Administrators just don't like them. And they just handed it to them on a plate. Unsurprisingly, it features the same Administrators that are involved in Fram's case, on the wrong side.

For an even better parallel to the type of governance failures that let Fram off the hook for so long, there is the total non-response to him having told two different users to "fuck off", one on 25 May, the other on the 30 May.

If these had even been reported as a violation of his specific civility sanction, they would have just let him off.

The house needs cleaning. Deep cleaning.

[sashi]

I take it the swift 1-2-3-4-5 reaction from the top "brass" on that case was probably to discourage a general AE look at how TRM's been doing concerning that pesky prohibition on accusing other people of incompetence. ^^