Fram

[Graaf Statler]

Ah, fuck this kind of idiots, they are the plague of every wiki projects. Of course people get angry if the are not fair treated, that is complete normal and healthy. Just lishen to them and ask what is going on.
Fuck yourself and find a other kindergarten to play, SilkTork. You are the type of the toxic users who have destroyed the complete project because you have no idea about being civil.

[CrowsNest]

Who one sleeps with or why is completely irrelevant here.

Eh?

The charge is conflict of interest, so it is totally relevant.

It is currently irrelevant because you bunch of bin divers all too quickly breezed over the need to actually show a potential conflict of interest, before you started rifling through people's knicker drawers to prove an actual one.

The facts, where they exist, are all against you. Party A does not handle these bans, and if they did and they have lied on the record, we would have already found out. Party B is not proven to be the sole or indeed final complainent, their silence is entirely understandable both because they would be a fool to encourage her pursuers, and probably quite likes the idea Fram might think she was his assassin (none of you have put sufficient weight on the fact she never tried to hide her animus for him, so neither you or he has actually revealed a secret conspiracy).

All you lot really have to show even a potential conflict, is a bunch of weak-ass speculation, and an obvious motive to build it up into the narrative that you have. There are other theories which do not require the WMF to have had nefarious motives, and indeed if they weren't allowed to ban their vocal critics for fear of alarming the Wikipedians about their awesome power, they sure as a shit took their sweet time noticing they can and they have. None of this has been mentioned on CSI:FUCKWIT. Some has already been written up as fact by your joke of a journalist.

Serious independent critics would not make such eminently discrediting mistakes. Wikipedians and their half-breed pseudo-critic cousins would.

Bunch of absolute fucking muppets that you are.

Maybe it would be irrelevant, if the WMF wasn't doing such a terrible job of managing their users' perceptions. It would be nice if they were better at it, actually. Either way, we're not here to help them hide their failings, we're here to do exactly the opposite of that.

Although with leaders like this, I can completely understand how you often get confused about your mission.

The WMF has no means to manage user's perceptions, they can only give them the facts (or deny them facts not meant for public consumption), and the paranoid freaks would clearly FREAK THE FUCK OUT ten times as much as they already have if they thought they were even trying.

They have given enough facts to quash the speculation (if the simple fact that they should not be airing such things in public at all is not really enough for them!). The freaks seem unconvinced, and it seems like the very short bridge between Wikipedia and Wikipediocracy is a big part of the reason why they have continued their speculation.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm all for getting the mob frightened and panicked and see what might break as a result, I just would rather not have to make women afraid to do so. Especially not when I would be actively passing up the opportunity to do the same to members of the patriarchy.

Finding a common cause with Wikipedia Administrators like Black Kite to do so, what with their proven history of lying to the community they purport to serve as a result of a real and obvious conflict of interest and a desire to influence the destiny of the Wikipedia far beyond the WMF's wildest dreams, that's totally out of the question for a serious, independent critic.

You lot, not so much. The GamerGate comparison, is apt. Not that I am even above making women feel concerned about what they have done and why they might have done it, if there is a legitimate reason for the cause and it is entirely related to their gender, as there is with Jess Wade. Despite me repeatedly pointing it out though, the similarities between her editing and your target's doesn't seem to interest your hyeenas at all. Nor that I got the same results without rifling through her drawers or her picture albums. Hence we have to conclude your purpose in that endeavour, as well as your means, is not so pure.

All very sick really.

[CrowsNest]

To the fuckwits arguing the WMF is a "leviathon", note that Faceboook just announced plans for an engineering centre employing 500 people for the sole purpose of building "tools and artificial intelligence (AI) systems to detect and remove harmful content and behaviour from the social networking site." It adds to the nearly 3,000 engineering jobs based in London alone.

Your shitty little site has been winging it for years, pretending you can crowd-source your way out of your responsibilites. How many volunteer coders are working on the same task this 500 people are? If I wanted to take them all out to dinner to thank them, how large a minibus would I need?

You should be thanking your lucky stars the WMF saw the resource gap and started hiring. If you don't like the results, consider how many of those hires were promotions from within the community. If you think the WMF needs to hide more or better people in Engineering, take a look around. No engineer worth his salt wants to work with such absolute freaks and their impossible demands. Fram did nothing to disabuse them of these notions.

Lila Treitkov was an external hire, a tech minded CEO aiming to take you into the 21st Centruy. Your volunteers sure showed her. Got a PR monkey as your head now, happy to talk shite and polish that turd into a unicorn, with most new hires being toward that purpose. You do know you're not building an encyclopedia anymore, you're a knowledge service, access to which (as consumer and builder) is a "fundamental human right"? Bullshit.

Fram was indeed a vocal critic of the WMF's engineering. You might want to reflect on the fact he was not the first, and he is definitely not the first to have been treated with contempt. Much of the early criticism came from the Register, and the contempt held for them by your new hero Jimmy ("tabloid") is eclipsed by the contempt you volunteers have for it.

Fram was only allowed to criticize the WMF because it suited the aims and objectives of the separatist Real Wikipedian anti-WMF factions at the heart of your cult, and because at the same time he proved his worth as a loyal servant to your little cult in other areas as they went about doing what they do to women and n00bs and yes, external critics.

You think you can do it all yourself? Well, we're watiing. Do you want another eighteen years?

We will not forget these things. The captured Wikipediocracy site clearly has. Fuck them. And fuck you too.

HTD.

[CrowsNest]

It's NOT "their own site." The site preceded WMF.

Unquestionably they are the legal owners. The Sole Flounder gave it to them. Also, at the end of the day they have the power to do whatever they like. I agree that morally it belongs to the "community", but morals only get you so far.

lolwut?

There's no "morally" about it. The content is all copyright the contributors, including the thousands since banned. It legally belongs to them, collectively as a body of work, and each individual person's bits to them.

Anyone who hasn't actually contributed something actually copyrightable, they're not entitled to shit, not legally or morally. Unpaid volunteers are exactly that, mugs who gave up their time and effort for nothing.

In terms of the rest of the site, the WMF only own the servers, domain and logos, and whatever parts of the code that is actually legally theirs (not much IRC).

When you think about it, the WMF have to deal with FAR MORE than their fare share of shit from the likes of Timmy, given how little skin in the game they actually have.

Timmy and co. can fuck off and take all the shit that is legally theirs anytime they like. They don't, because they need the WMF more than the WMF needs them. And the little rat knows it.

There will eventually come a day when more of the content of Wikipedia is legally owned by people who have been denied membership of the comminity, than the people who consider themselves part of it.

Timmy is a digital tramp. The WMF could piss in his mouth and he'd still not leave his comfy cardboard box in the WMF basement, for skid row proper.

[CrowsNest]

Wikipediocracy rags on Fae a lot. They still miss nuggets like this....

@Starship.paint: Griping about some edgy Tweets by a WiR account is pointless. Arbcom are not internet police, use the Twitter complaint system. .... --Fæ (talk) 12:13, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

As is the case with on-wiki harassment, off-wiki harassment can be grounds for blocking, and in extreme cases, banning.

Muppet.

He made this same error when defending Jess Wade, but they missed it then too.

Muppets.

[CrowsNest]

This is how paranoid the Wikipediots are. The University of Washington posted a YouTube video the day after Fram was banned (presumably an accompanyment to this study). It mentions changes in the pipeline that Fram would have probably freaked out over.

The Wikipediots have put these two facts together, and concluded the WMF have unjustly banned Fram just to get him out of the way in time for this change.

I'm not making this up, here's three of them having a meltdown here.....

Anyone else getting the 'this seems like part of an orchestrated plan' at this point? I mean, I am usually extremely pessimistic of conspiracy theories, but the timing on this is either deliberate or massively incompetent. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:23, 15 June 2019 (UTC)That

(+1) This is testing the limits of Hanlon's razor .... WBG 10:29, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Yep, this was the piece of evidence that pushed me over the line of hanlon's razor. I now think that it's more likely that something nefarious is going on instead of innocent stupidity or incompetence. I'm wiling to wait for Doc Brown to get back to us about what happened in the board meeting, but if we don't get satisfactory communications then, I'm starting to wonder about foundation-ectomies. Tazerdadog (talk) 12:12, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Totaly squirrel.

I mean, maybe it's because we're critics and we're used to tracking these things, but it surely shouldn't be a surprise to any very active Wikipedian that these things are basically true.....

1. News about the gender gap and what the WMF hopes to do to fix it emerges pretty much on a daily basis. It part of their 'trust us, we got this' never ending PR campaign, where the money keeps rolling in because they're always trying to fix some shit, but it never gets fixed.

2. The WMF have actually been doing stuff about this for years, stuff the en.wiki crowd don't really care about because the touchy feely stuff is not remotely their concern. But new things emerge every few months.

3. If it came from the WMF, Fram could pretty much be relied on to neg it.

[Graaf Statler]

Yes, but that video is complete rubbish. I am not a woman and had to deal with exact that kind of harresment as described in that video mainly caused by...........Woman! With Trijnstel in a front position, but Moira was absolute also a experience.

I said it many times before, if the woman IRL where like the wikiwoman I should instantly immigrated to the monk republic Athos where it is forbidden for woman. I still don't understand where the idea came from woman has to be protected, but I am talking about the Dutch WP.
They are terrible and as shitty as the most shitty man! No, I can't say in all that time on Wikipedia I have met one single nice and normal woman, in my opinion they are all complete frustrated and have a complex. But we had noticed before wiki woman are not what you should consider as the high end of there female gender pool.

[CrowsNest]

It's the "single project" bit that's so baffling. Is he better behaved elsewhere? I think that if it had been a global ban, there would have been less fuss because it would not look so much like encroaching on EN-WP Arbcom.

He isn't particularly active anywhere else, is the whole fucking point. He was allowed to do what he does on en.wiki because that community is rotten from top to bottom, ArbCom itself having been hollowed out in recent years (electing an amoral scumbag like Drmies FFS).

En.wiki is on notice now - clean your fucking act up, or more of your supposedly best editors are going to get a reminder, then a warning, and if they still don't change, will be bundled into the black van. The en.wiki asshole hemogeny of course choosing to ignore the fact that for Fram at least, this ban did not come out of the blue as far as T&S were concerned. And of course not one of them is being reprimanded for lying by omission by their Administrators, because lying by omission is considered normal behaviour on scumbag central. Drmies does it as a matter of routine.

Fram is also on notice too. He is now aware of what the minimum standard across all projects is, and as reward for his years long service to scumbag central, has been given the chance to demonstrate he can play well with others in different projects. He is not (or should not be) in any way believing that this means he is going to those projects in full possession of maximal good faith. Unlike on scumbag central, last chance really does mean last chance.

If the en.wiki community really didn't care if this has been done as a Global Ban, they would be hypocrites, because OFFER is just as much a part of their coda as ARBCOM, and using their standard of proof (what you can see and what Fram tells them he did), he would have been fully entitled to that last chance.

[CrowsNest]

If this shitstorm stays its present course, I can not fathom its not being accepted as a case. Neither can I fathom its not becoming the largest disruptive distraction (by far) to building the encyclopedia this community has ever endured nor (potentially) the most derisive discourse ever regrettably had. The last thing I would ever wish to see on this site is the kind of nuanced bickering this case will undoubtedly engender among the most experienced and well respected of our editing community as is posturing now (on and off of en-Wikipedia). I fear (at this point) that we will suffer losses across the entire spectrum of this great project (among admins, editors, and readership alike) no matter what course ultimately emerges as the path of resolution. The only solution that could have positive mitigating effects, in my opinion, would be if ​all ​three ​parties who boldly chose to misuse their advanced permissions in calculated defiance of policy and bright-line rules would now take responsibility for, and ownership of their decision and actions by relinquishing their associated permissions voluntarily. I think this would spare everything undesirable about a case, hasten the likelihood of realizing positive changes in the methodologies under protest by your collective actions, and allow the community to heal her own wounds by reasserting our trust and appreciation in each of you at the earliest RfA/B that you each will hopefully convene. I sure hope that each of you will.--John Cline (talk) 11:01, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, good luck with that.

They don't think they did anything wrong, is the point. Bishonen doesn't even see why she even would be a party.

ArbCom can either indulge them in these fantasies, and upset intelligent and right minded people, or they can apply the necessary consequences, and outrage the ignorant and unruly mob from whom they ultimately gain their power to set the world alight in the first place.

[CrowsNest]

Reading this Twitter feed, I'm not feeling the love. Matthew Long said that the post had been mentioned on enwiki and the response from the WIR account was "we get mentioned in important places too." [19] Honestly, the dismissive tone, the general sense that people here are deluded and toxic -- reading this Twitter thread feels exactly like reading a Wikipediocracy forum, only it's women being contemptuous instead of men. And if they know some reason why Fram is so "toxic" that we should not be defending him, then by all means, speak up here where we are reading, instead of subtly hinting on Twitter feeds that we are not. But WO wouldn't do that either, for the same reasons. Wnt (talk) 02:19, 16 June 2019 (UTC)