Fram

Editors, Admins and Bureaucrats Oh my!
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Carrite
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Re: Fram

Post by Carrite » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:48 am

CrowsNest wrote:We may already be seeing the detoxifying effects of the message already. For the first time I can recall, an appropriate and effective sanction placed on the vicious little bastard known as Eric Corbett, seems to be holding. Yesterday he got blocked for a month for an obvious and unjustifiable ArbCom sanction violation, and had talk page access removed for not using the privilege to show acknowledgement or contrition, or otherwise appeal.

So far, nobody has objected except the worst of the worst Wikipedia has to offer, and crucially, no Administrators, not even one of the several who always defended or excused the little shit, year after year. Other than this controversy, nothing else has changed in the initial conditions of the experiment - he didn't do anything he hadn't done before, indeed this was relatively minor. The month long length of the sanction finally takes into account his history of recidivism as opposed to the mere violation in isolation.

It has been claimed by one usual White Knight of the Red Baron that he has lost his get out of jail free card this time because he is no longer being productive, but he's gotten away with stuff before when he's been basically retired, and this month, when not telling people to fuck off, he has been chipping in with FAC reviews.


The Malleus question has always revolved around the ratio of good to bad. When he worked hard, collaborated behind the scenes in the featured article process and so on, it was fairly easy to make the case that he was a "net positive." Now, essentially withdrawn from editing, when he pops up to pop off, it is just as easy to make the case he is a "net negative."

I would not be surprised to see him indeffed (without a circus erupting) by the end of the year.

RfB

P.S. Also: everybody is by now sick of his shit...

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Re: Fram

Post by Graaf Statler » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:55 am

Carrite wrote:P.S. Also: everybody is by now sick of his shit...

I think we are all sick and tired of all the shit, Tim. And I am really glad the T&S ShitFanBomb felt this time in the other camp, because it is all Kafka and fascism. It is no solution just to drop a shit drone bomb without any explanation.

Fram is deletionist and T&S are Inclusionists. And all Inclusionists are trolling themself in heaven to fix wikipedia in there way. And it looks there only goal is to destroy wikipedia with the help of the WMF money and in this way everything gets complete out of balans. There are always trolls and free loaders to fool the high Asperger guys, who are despite there high intelligence very, very easy to fool. Wikipedia is a paradise for trolls and free loaders in this way because of the complete opaque structure, what is a drama for high Asperger persons.They need structure to function in the right way.

But wikipedia is not only a drama for high Asperger guys, it's also a drama for what I call the children of Aron, highly sensitive persons. Because I have noticed HSP is close to Asperger, Asperger and HSP people have a lot in common and like each other often very much. Till it comes to the structure of wikipedia. Because what the Asperger guys are leaking have the HSP guys too much, seeing connections.

And so wikipedia change in one big mess of fighting real good painters who have to paint a colourful object. The only problem is a part of them is color-blind, and a other part is very good with colors. And all these painters are all excellent painters and nice guys. And there is a paint mixing machine......
Well, how can you change this project in a succes and how not. Simple, let the right persons operate the paint mixing machined and it will end up in a succes. There will be a excellent atmosphere and this group of painters will create a masterpiece. They will become friends, and everyone is proud of the result.

But how not. How can you change this project in the hell on earth. Wikipedia in short.
It appears the color-blind painters are attracted to the paint mix machine, but the other painters not. What will be the result? All painter have all colors of the rainbow, but the object is not painted.

Well, and the task of our beloved director is to get the right persons on the right place.

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Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:58 am

No Timmy, read what I said, he was still being productive at FAC, and besides, he's never been short of Administrators who would intervene even even if he had done nothing for ages, on simple principle. If they really are finally sick of his shit, that was one pathetic time to do it. The theory doesn't really fit the fact they did protest before the block, just not after it.

An indefinite block would definitely attract more pushback, if it ever happens. It is far more likely be just keeps intentionally violating his ArbCom sanctions, and Sandstein just keeps upping the blocks, until he reaches three months (civility), a year (gender), or a long time (RfA topic ban). If Eric carefully chooses how he's going to be a prick, to poke fun of the sanctions, as it looks like he is, he could do this for a long time yet, before Sandstein would feel compelled to file an ARCA. Even then it is far more likely one of his fans applies to have them all rescinded, before it reaches that point.

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Re: Fram

Post by Graaf Statler » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:07 am

See here a person who has a real excellent feeling of color's....

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Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:21 am

The Wikipedians are trying to erase all mention of the Breitbart coverage of FRAMBAN from their servers.

You would think, after all this commotion about the community's rights, specifically due process and fair trials, they would be most interested to hear the perspective of a long standing editor whose removal from the site was achieved by denying him both.

Sure, they're tossing around reasons, some even make sense, but I'm guessing the real reason for their allergic reaction is because the abuses were done by their own instruments of self-government, the opaque and unaccountable Star Chamber that is ArbCom.

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Re: Fram

Post by Graaf Statler » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:23 am

But that's the way they always try to solve there problems! They gave there most powerful bots in the hands of guy's like Bart Legal and Ymnes, party on to celebrate the succes of wikipedia with there chapter and a luxe office with staff. And when things went dramatical wrong they just ignore it. A few cometic reshuffles in the field by arbcom and the wiki party can go on.
Where are the tickets for Stockholm! Here we come and let the big wiki party start!

And in this way they are running strait to there extinction, because the world is bigger than wikipedia. As you can see in the Abd law cause there are higher supreme courts then arbcom. And it is time you all start to realise what kind of weapon I have in my pocket, the unpredictable European legal system and a bone crumbling laywer, who is observing the whole situation on my request. And for who doesn't believe that, ask EdodeRoo free beer to phone him.

But I am just a servant of the crown, nothing special. A guy who never serieus went to school. But I am the one who give you all a new order.

Fix wikipedia. Stop the trolling, your filling of your own pockets, and do what you have to do. You have till 2030 the time to reach this goal:
DirectionStrategy/Wikimedia movement/2017/Direction

And that is order.
And who is not with use is against us.

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Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:24 pm

Self-government in action.......
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Reversion of office actions resolved by motion

Although official WMF policy states that Unauthorized modifications to office actions will not only be reverted, but may lead to sanctions by the Foundation, such as revocation of the rights of the individual involved, JEissfeldt (WMF) (talk · contribs) indicated that the WMF would not implement further sanctions against the admins involved in reversing these actions ([5]). In recognition of that decision, and of the exceptional nature of the circumstances, the committee notes without comment this series of events. The community is advised that administrators and bureaucrats are normally expected not to act when they know they do not have all of the relevant facts, and that this is especially important with regard to office actions where those facts may be highly sensitive. As a general rule, wheel warring may be grounds for removal of administrative rights by the committee as well as by the WMF. Lack of sanctions under these exceptional circumstances should not set expectations around similar future actions.
ArbCom have simply lied to the community, and totally ducked the issue. There was more to Jan's statement than is stated here, namely that the Foundation stopped sanctioning users because it wanted to defer the decision about what to do with the local rights holders who defied Foundation policy to the local system of self-governance that seems to want to claim jurisdiction. That was the extent of that "decision", no direction was given to ArbCom as to whether they too should apply no sanctions, and it would be absurd for them to do so if using the Foundation decision as the reason.

ArbCom were tasked with making a decision of their own. So, what have they actually done with this deferred power? Merely outlined what happened, "without comment", except this implication that the reason they are deciding to do nothing is because this was an exceptional situation that proved controversial. A cruel person might point out that seems to be the very definition of any wheel warring case that ArbCom is asked to hear, and rule on. The place where final and binding rulings are issued, and all that.

Note that there has been no ruling. Not only have the misbehaving local rights holders not been sanctioned or even warned, neither have they been cleared. No official endorsement of this claimed idea they were engaged in legitimate civil disobedience, which has no basis in policy because WP:IAR was certainly never written to excuse knowingly starting World War III on a self-admitted point of political principle, hence why the Committee didn't dare even suggest this was the source of the rebel's perceived legitimacy.

Oh, they have issued advice, of course, the duly elected hot air factory has to do that. It reaffirms the Foundation policy. Why? The policy did not matter, for unspecified exceptional circumstance in an environment of controversy. If WP:IAR doesn't cover it, then what is the reason that policy didn't matter? Plenty of specific and policy sounding arguments were given, so why no comment from the Ruling Council?

Why should any local rights holder not see this ruling as a precedent? As long as there exists controversy, something a bad actor can interpret as a consensus for civil disobedience, as long as there exists some kind of exceptional circumstance, local rights holders would be within their rights to assume that if they unilaterally use their tools to interfere with an office action despite not knowing the full facts, they are covered. The WMF certainly can't touch them. They might not receive endorsement of the Ruling Council, but neither will they be sanctioned. Just hold the course, and you'll be fine.

Is this your idea of self-government, Wikipediots? Pretty pathetic, if so. A giant policy vaccuum now exists around how trusted volunteer rights holders should behave in situations of utmost seriousness, where literally one wrong move can lead to user's privacy and even their safety, being compromised.

In reality, a Full Case was not opened in lieu of this pathetic motion, because to do so would have revealed ArbCom's major culpability in creating the exceptional circumstances that led to this controversy. The indecision, the botched communications, the general cowardice and instinct for buck-passing and self-preservation. No surprise then, that it has similarly manifested in this contemptible Motion.

Nothing has been done to the rebellious rights holders, neither sanction or endorsement, because the Committee doesn't want to upset its new best friends, the rebellious elements of the community determined to elevate them to the heights of supreme sovereign over all 'local' issues (and child protection, threats of violence and other illegality are all potentially local issues under your definitions, you cowardly cunts). But neither does it want to anger the people they know are still basically the legal owners of the wesbite, which of course absolutely means office actions have to have primacy, and people who fuck with them without authorization, have to lose their rights, immediately and permanently.

No rights without responsibilities. You may not realize it yet wiki-fuckwits, but this Motion calls into question the very notion that the Foundation is entitled to refuse requests for the real names and addresses of rights holders under the previous framework of protection for good faith volunteers. The Foundation can't afford to be put into a position of being seen to have deferred, through inaction much less grant of 'sovereignty', anything that they are rightly and solely legally responsible for when in receipt of a proper legal request for office action. That way lies a Gawker style extinction-suit.

Under that legal reality, what possibly ever counts as an exceptional circumstance? If your best friend gets Global Banned, that counts under the present understanding of controversy, does it not? The WMF banning people without fair trial, giving the community no reason at all? Yeah, you better believe this Motion empowers civil disobedience even in those circumstances. Even more so given greyer areas where controversy is absolutely going to exist now.

Remember, the rebel rights holders only initially claimed consensus backing, you will note they later realized this was unsustainable given it does not apply to overturning office actions given their special status, so they threw themselves before the Committee, asking to be judged for actions that were entirely unilateral. Done with sole legal responsibility, you might say. Which is, of course, their actual legal position. The message of the Committee's inaction, has been received, by those who would do such a thing again, damn the consequences.

This cowardly and amoral non-decision, is simply a reflection of the cowardice and immorality that is ingrained in the community. They truly have the government they deserve, the government they would elect.

I spit on them.

HTD.

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Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:45 pm

:lol:
Ming decided to see how long a certain person could go on about this, and lo and behold, Ming found this unsubstantiated claim: "Can the Separatists please note, ArbCom were given a heads up that a ban for Fram was in the works. THEY DID NOTHING, least of all protest at a perceived forthcoming jurisdictional over-reach." (Ming's emphasis) Of course, no citation. Any likelihood this might be true?
Ming never learns.

You're a whiny little bitch precisely because I am always right. 8-)

Seriously, come at me 'bro. Vigilant, keep your hamster on a leesh, there's a good boy! :ugeek:
Mendaliv wrote:The thing is we don't exactly know how it was mentioned, the rest of the context, who was in the meeting, etc.......I mean, I see no reason to believe they said, up-front, "We plan on banning Fram for violating TOU on harassment. Do you object?"
Seriously, if you don't know, wind your neck in. Context you say?
Meeting type: the regularly scheduled ArbCom-T&S conference call.

ArbCom attendees: Opabina only.

Date: days before FRAMBAN.

Message: "an action to do with Fram was under consideration"

Traceability: included in the minutes of the meeting.

Responsibility: Minutes read by some other Arbitrators before FRAMBAN applied.
I mean, sure, maybe the "action" being considered was to hire Fram as the new Head of Department, but come on. The point is, they had an adequate heads up, enough to stop whatever it was and get clarification on what it was. And this all happened at the same time Fram was being discussed by them a lot, because he'd done a ton of stupid shit in May, including triggering his own downfall by setting in motion the four week deep dive investigation.

If you want more than this, you will have to use you POWER as a WIKIPEDIAN to get your precious ARBCOM to tell you precisely the who/what/where/when/how they were involved with the whole Fram situation in the month or so before FRAMBAN (because there is more to know than the particulars of this one fuck up).

Or, you can keep doing what you're doing. They're not my elected representatives, they don't work for me, their emails and internal wiki discussions are not done in my name. I'm just a guy snooping over the fence, wondering why you fuckers can't smell that rotten stink wafting out of your yard, and instead want to blame the evil Corporation headquartered far far way, all the way downtown.

If you don't wanna know, I guess you don't wanna know. But if so, don't you be whining about democracy and transparency and elected representatives like you give a shit, because someone's liable to toss a raccoon in that there yard, just for the fun of it.

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Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:20 pm

As I said here.......RELEASE THE ARBCOM PAPERS

The people have a right to know, and all that shit.

Don't be redacting no fucking names either. :roll:

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Re: Fram

Post by Graaf Statler » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:20 pm

It's all Kafka with those secret trails. These are no professional courts, these are total amateurs, you can't trust on there ability's. Rob was a Arb, the guy was total unsuitable but what about the other Arb's?
And they are all involved.

In general I doubt if it is possible to run a wiki with total unqualified people because the mess everything up. It is a legal chaos, it is a common law project running in a Code Napoleon system in Europe. The chapter structure with it's money streams is very questionable.
Mendaliv and Vig are now bringing the contractor structure up. Black T&S Jan is living in Germany I presume, and is a contractor and a manager. What about liability of him and that other T&S German guy? It is one big chaos without any structure and at the end everyone and nobody is liable.

Wikipedia is a no one's child, it has no father and mother and everyone and nobody is liable for the child. And roams all alone through the big evil digital world.

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