Fram

Editors, Admins and Bureaucrats Oh my!
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JuiceBeetle
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Re: Fram

Post by JuiceBeetle » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:43 am

http://wikipediawehaveaproblem.com/2019 ... feed-beat/

This is progress.
Its progress because the Wikipedia community cannot govern itself responsibly, and banning them is the only responsible thing to do under the circumstances.
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The Wikipedia community is horribly toxic, by which I mean it is comprised of a predominantly white male culture in competition with itself, and this bizarre convergence of identity and ideology has a bit more negative influence than can be easily measured, or even noticed in many cases (like mine, but I digress).
From my direct experience developing this case study, senior Wikipedia admins, including Floquenbeam who was involved with the Fram incident, have allowed extreme harassment to occur and often participate in it.
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There are significant unintended consequences of using MediaWiki and assigning governance over to a community who can game the tools that WikiMedia gave them.
Here is where WikiMedia must face honestly the inherent contradiction of a non profit that promotes collaboration where the software platform promotes competition.
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Collaboration is embedded into the message of Wikipedia, and Wikipedia has a toxic and abusive community responsible for governance; this creates a unqiue plot twist that makes the whole experience and reality of Wikipedia editing that much darker than harassment on “normal” social media platforms where engagement is not centered around who controls the message, just who gets to distribute it.
Therefore, collaboration should, must even, become a key integrity with any Wikipedia editor, and especially Wikipedia Admins.
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With a $50M fundraise per year, spending $5M on a paid and responsible staff to manage proper Wikipedia editing and clean up platform wide harassment is a drop in the bucket.
So Katherine Maher, you might not be the dick Wikipedia wants, but please be the dick that Wikipedia needs, and ban, block and weed out the bad actors without apologies.
#Bbbgate

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CrowsNest
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Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:57 am

Wow. Something actually happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... /Case/Fram

Only Fram named as a party. So to all those people looking for others to be brought to account as part of this Major Inquiry, well, sucks to be as stupid as you. ArbCom were tasked by their real masters with reviewing Fram's ban, and that is evidently all they are going to do. You want something more than that, well, maybe you can hire The A-Team?
Further to the Arbitration Committee's open letter to the board[1], the Wikimedia Foundation's Trust and Safety team (T&S) has provided the committee with their materials concerning Fram. The 70-page document is partially redacted, so the committee is not able to see the names of the complainants, nor their correspondence with T&S.

The committee accepts that it should open a full case to investigate the interactions of Fram with other editors over this time period. The case will be held in camera, with a public decision posted at the end. Editors who wish to provide evidence or workshop suggestions may do so by emailing them to arbcom-en-b@wikimedia.org (Arbcom "B" List). Evidence and workshop suggestions provided by the community will be summarised and anonymised before being posted publicly and provided to Fram for comment. If you have any concerns about your evidence being posted publicly, please email the Arbcom "B" List to discuss it.
The decision to hear this matter was made on the arbitration mailing list. GoldenRing (talk) 10:15, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
The committee as a whole will draft the proposed decision in this case. It will be posted on-wiki; where the decision refers to evidence that is not public, a placeholder will be used.
I wondered what spurred this development?

21 July:

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/vie ... 822#p10822

22 July:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... _Fram_case?

Grateful Wikipedians, you can send donations to HTD Inc.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Fram

Post by Graaf Statler » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:30 pm

Yeh, and WMF, Arbcom and wikipedians keep in mind Fram is from Belgium, so be careful nothing contains material protected by the European privacy laws. Because that's forbidden, also for a American Foundation. Because if Fram find only the smallest piece of voilating he can start for free a case against WMF with one form on the internet what he for sure wins!

The Hasten The Day (HTD) brigade is delighted, special because some of the T&S contractors are European citizens. So they can kept personal responsible for privacy violations and explane there roll as a contractor in this Fram soap in person to the European authority's.
Briljant, after me you have also given Fram a atomic weapon in his hand what he can use to blow your complete shitty foundation back to where it belongs, in the trash can!

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Re: Fram

Post by JuiceBeetle » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:07 pm

Graaf Statler wrote: he can start for free a case against WMF with one form on the internet what he for sure wins


That would be the comedy of the year :lol:
He would be banned for life from all WMF projects (no legal threats), there would revolts and counter-revolts, full-on wikipedian civil war, and the english wikipedia community with WMF on top would crumble upon itself, descending into a post-apocalyptic chaos.

All the media coverage it would generate... He might become more infamous than Drump himself :D
#Bbbgate

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Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:14 pm

What a surprise, now ArbCom have told the community how they intend to handle the Fram ban review, suddenly they no longer trust their elected government. They have been infiltrated by the SJWs of WMDC. They will withhold crucial details to the accused, who will be powerless to explain how it was not his fault, that it was never his fault, it was always the lizard people making these SJWs wrongly perceive his earnest attempts to help them abide by policy, as WP:HARASSment. That the wording of the policy fits the crime, is of course all part of the conspiracy.

It's hilarious how they're even trying to play the recusal game. I'm fine with that, but Opabina has to go, for having so thoroughly outed herself as pro-Floquenbeam. Worm has to go too, for failing to explain why he intends to give more weight to community submitted evidence, than evidence submitted to the Foundation. Unless he is alleging fraud or conspiracy, there is no grounds for that, in both cases the evidence is private, examinable only by Arbs and Fram. Hey, perhaps we can have recusals from every Arbitrator who has historically refused to open a Case, and didn't see anything in his May 2019 misconduct to change their minds.

It was never about jurisdiction. It was always about the mob wanting to know exactly who to target for punishment for reporting Fram.

Rather hilariously, seeing the writing on the wall, they even object to the scope of the case being the last three years only. Not a long enough time scale to show Fram is a good egg really. It's plenty enough. If he is.

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Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:31 pm

Hmmmm......
The [T&S dossier] is clear that there have been a number of concerns about Fram's behaviour spanning three years. For me that is evidence enough that a case is justified. SilkTork (talk) 12:25, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
......weren't you one of the few Arbitrators who were saying even before FRAMBAN, and certainly in the immediate aftermath, that a Case on Fram was warranted, the dysfunction of the Committee being to blame for it not happening?

Should Arbitrators who can't even keep their stories straight, presumably afraid of the mob reacting badly when they magically conclude that yes, the ban was warranted, be forced to recuse?

For all their insistence on transparency and fairness, it's actually pretty hard to even simply compile a list of every public statement every Arbitrator has ever made about Fram. And of course, as has been well established by me, and apparently doesn't concern the deeply suspicious community, all the internal discussions Arbitrators have had before about the Fram problem, are apparently sealed under the fifty year rule. Even though they were produced in commission of their duties as elected representatives.

How ironic that it is only now that they complain of the Star Chamber. It always was, you freaks, you just didn't care. The intrepid Breitbart reported was banned by a Star Chamber. You don't care. You magically trust what they did to him was on the level, even though there is every reason to suspect it was done only to protect a corrupt Wikipedia Administrator. Drmies reassured people there was no there, there. How did he even know? Alarm bells should have rung, because he is as corrupt as they come, securing tenure by virtue of his Wikipedia 'research', and never denying he is a secret paid editor, sub-contracting for Will Beutler to wave through his hagiographies. Who knows, maybe the Administrator they are protecting is Drmies. If it is, you'd never be told, that's for sure.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Fram

Post by Graaf Statler » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:51 pm

Funny, I was the one who have introduced the therm Star Chambers in the discussion. :mrgreen:
I even opned a topic about Star Chambers here. Star Chambers filled up with crap who whatever they decide are roosted and payed in WP's crypto money, SB's. Shit Buckets.
Because that is what is stand by for arbcom. Many, many filled up shit buckets to the brim

T&S knew what they gave away to the community. They gave the too hot potato to them, and they kept the jobs and the real money. And arbcom get payed in WP's crypto money, no escape possible.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Fram

Post by Graaf Statler » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:16 pm

Of course it is a collapsing complete broken system. Because no matter what they do, they get in deep trouble.
Fram was extreem uncivil, but T&S are prutsers and lunatics themself. And is arbcom highly incompetent.

There is simple no happy end possible.

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Re: Fram

Post by CrowsNest » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:09 am

Oh boy. Why?
Listen, our eyes are wide open here, and we are not stupid. We're well aware of the history. We're relatively savvy people, for all our pomposity, and we will deal with those who have agendas. .... Katietalk 01:35, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
Why even let garbage like this come out of your mouth, when you surely know that part of the history here is Arbitrators not doing their damn jobs.

Savvy people don't let a can like Fram get kicked down the road umpteen times, to the point even your own members are wondering out loud if the time has come to file a Case themselves, as some kind of public prosecutor. When has that ever happened before? Why did nobody sit up and think, hey, what are we missing here? Or did they? Who the fuck knows, you're so savvy you think it's smart to keep people in the dark about all this lovely detail of how a bill becomes a law.

It seems to me the biggest agenda people need to be wary of, is ArbCom whitewashing their role in the whole affair. They're not going to tell the community exactly what they did and didn't do in the months and years leading up to FRAMBAN that could and should have negated the need for a 'foreign power' to land on the sacred shore of their autonomous and self-governing community where nobody gets WP:HARASSed ever.

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