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Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:26 pm
by CrowsNest
Anyone assuming this can be dealt with by cutting a deal, probably has no real understanding of what Cross has been doing. Hence the need for a full case, to give people the opportunity to lay it all out on wiki. Assuming for a moment that ArbCom will even allow that - no doubt someone will claim even that is a form of harassment.

For example, he just left a comment at Talk:Seumas Milne. Does "will not edit" apply to talk pages? Bearing in mind just a few lines above that, Cross can be seen, on 21 April, linking to a Tweet from his nemesis Neil Clark, in the process obliquely referring to him as the "contributor to the Putinite RT network". Since it wasn't crucial to the point he was trying to make, this can be seen as a deliberate jab, using Wikipedia as a platform to further his ongoing feud with external parties, particularly as the Tweet itself dates from 2016.

So the question has to be asked, under any deal, what specifically will this guy still be allowed to do? It seems unlikely he would come out the other side of a full case with anything less than a topic ban regarding all his known enemies and articles of dispute. That would include making comments like the one above about Clark, anywhere on Wikipedia, not just on the talk page of articles like Milne.

This is all rather ridiculous anyway, since if it can be shown he has driven the people he has been harassing with his obsessive attentions and gloating, to be suicidal, as has been claimed, he should be receiving a WMF Global Ban. Not least because it is certainly the case that English Wikipedia's local self-policing manifestly failed to prevent it.

Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:37 pm
by CrowsNest
I now have direct and irrefutable evidence of “a powerful man” giving editing direction to #PhilipCross in his role as a @Wikipedia editor. This is going to be huge. #Wikipedia

2:43 pm · 26 May 2018
It will be revealed in Court.

2:55 pm · 26 May 2018

Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:58 pm
by CrowsNest
What a surprise......
Decline based on the statement by PC, with a note that I will vote to accept a private case in the future if issues arise again. If PC has no intention to edit the article again, I see nothing for us to do here right now. ~ Rob13 16:54, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
Wikipolitics in action.

Here's what this deal doesn't seemingly stop Cross from doing....

-posting to Talk:George Galloway
-mentioning Galloway on Wikipedia
-editing articles related to Galloway
-editing other articles to mention Galloway
-fighting with Galloway on Twitter

Nor does it stop him doing that for any of these other people whose articles he is supposedly banning himself from, even though we do not even have an agreed upon list of who they are.

I'd call that a resounding victory for Cross in the circumnstances, no?

Someone better step up soon, preferable Rob's fellow becloaked ones.

Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:41 pm
by sashi
Garsh, CrowsNest. Reading that last line it almost seems like you want to help the ArbCom have some remote semblance of credibility. I thought you were an HTDer. I wouldn't have thought you would be having sudden pangs of pity when their chestnuts are in the fire and you see them trying to use lighter fluid to put it out. (§)

I wonder how the Minassian Media minions will pitch this one to the MSM...

Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 10:17 pm
by CrowsNest
Just because I say it, doesn't mean they will do it. I'm HTD primarily because I know through experience how many times the Wikipedians haven't stepped up. It's the natural home of people who do not step up, plus the occasional one who does, but doesn't have the first clue what he's doing. Consider the sentiment a signal to watchers, to know exactly what the missed opportunities were.

Right on cue, another one fails.....
Decline with the same priviso that if the issues reoccur we should accept a private case. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:27 am
by AndrewForson
The lack of self-awareness on Wikipedia is staggering. It hardly matters whether Philip Cross is an obsessive amateur with strong political views (that is, a typical Wikipedian), a team of drones in the pay of the Great Right-Wing Conspiracy, an agent of the deep state, or a Putin-backed disinformation campaign. He could be any of those, and the result would be the same -- the contamination of "the sum of human knowledge". The more theories there are, the more obvious it is that Wikipedia is fatally vulnerable to manipulation by any or all of those possible types of actor, and the more probable it appears that it is indeed being manipulated in the interests of various groups. There is no-one and nothing in place on Wikipedia to prevent that sort of manipulation, so it will happen.

Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:25 pm
by Graaf Statler
You are complete right, but as long only a hand full of people in the periphery of the internet, one of the few places where they are save for blocking, see this danger and discuss it, nothing will change.

The whole wold is under the spell of the snake oil sellers and the money is rushing in. You understand this is as danger as plastic in the ocean, Crow sees this danger, Renee (aggie's board) see this danger, I see this danger, but as long as the world keep going on giving them money and welcome this idiots in there university's, musea, and institutions nothing will change. The founding of Romaine's Trollomedia-BE was in the house of parlement in Belgium! In the center of the power of Belgium! The capital of the European parlement! They are lobbing there with there crazy idea's! Troll Romaine, who didn't accept copyright on Wikiquote! We are collecting all human knowledge, so fuck copyright! And if you don't agree, we troll you out! And thank got at the end we have our secret weapon, I love Cheesburgers James Alexander to finish the job!
Without any succes by the way, because French will never, never give there intellectual property and the privacy of there citizens for free to the American internet giants. Like most other European country's don't want that, so the snake oil sellers have now a tremendous problem what they can't solve with money.

Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 7:56 pm
by CrowsNest
An interesting diff, found courtesy of Daniel Brandt reminding me how Wikipedia's love of Google can be used against them.....

On 2 September 2016 Cross tried to use a Tweet by Oliver Kamm to support an edit to Jeremy Corbyn's biography..... ... =737313975

When another editor objected and took it out, well, didn't he just add it right back again..... ... =737402193

When a second person removed it again, he stopped edit warring and joined a discussion on the talk page...... ... tisemitism

Even if you didn't know at this time Cross was a 12 year Wikipedia veteran, and even if you didn't know that people suspect Cross is Kamm, and even if you didn't know Cross has a reputation for adding negative information to the biographies of politicians who are anti-war pro-Palestinian, and even if you didn't know Cross is the top editor by number of edits to that biography, and the third top in terms of text added, well, under the normal rules of Wikipedia, you would still view that edit war and his ensuing defence of it, as problematic.

Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:43 pm
by ericbarbour
Just a reminder: on 16 May he pretended to quit Wikipedia. ... =841584987

Then he did this insane shit. Explain it if you can. ... =841585561 ... =841587950 ... =841723164 ... =841817657 ... =842255725 ... =842256434

And he went right back to grinding the same old subjects. Although I think they scared him away from George Galloway's article for the time being, I fully expect he will go back there and muck it up again after people forget. Wheeee what fun! ... ilip_Cross

I still think he's either totally insane, or (more likely) he is a "paid shared account" being used by 2 or more people to insert non-neutral political content. Kamm could easily be just one of the account users. All that messing with music material and the Harry Palmer movies etc. is purely smokescreen.

And JzG is still an idiot. Okay?

Re: Philip Cross

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:58 pm
by ericbarbour
PS have a look at this. ... OliverKamm

If Cross = Kamm, he's doing an awful job of whatever he's doing. Including his attempts to glorify himself and his parents.