Wikipedia and the mentally ill

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CrowsNest
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Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by CrowsNest » Thu May 31, 2018 11:23 am

It's time to lift the lid on another aspect of Wikipedia that they desperately don't want outsiders to know anything about.

Obvious place to start is the essay Wikipedia is not therapy

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =832534463

As you can see, it rather equivocates on the issues that surround mental illness and Wikipedia. It arguably isn't about mental illness at all, unless one counts the very real issue of Wikipedia addiction as one.

But the takeaway lessons here are that it is just an essay - this signifies the Wikipedians have not given this issue much thought, so little they cannot even be bothered to create a guideline, let alone a hard and fast policy. Contrast this with the volumes of official text dedicated to, for example, users with a conflict of interest.

So, in the absence of guidance, to understand how Wikiepdia deals with mentally ill users, we can only really look at individual cases.

User:Prüm

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Prüm&oldid=843547928

As can be seen, this user recently had some kind of break with reality, some kind of disturbing episode, that was apparently triggered or exacerbated by their involvement with Wikipedia. It manifested in him pretending to be disruptive users from Wikipedia's past.

In case they hide it, here's a small selection of what he was saying...
I was just freaking out during the course of the day. Regards, --Prüm (talk) 00:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

I was just undergoing the most horrible experience of my whole life so far. I don't wish to go into any more detail, but that's why I felt I couldn't go on anymore. I actually can't remember it well now. In other words: I was mentally very unstable when I wrote this, but can feel myself getting better now. I referenced Grawp because that was the one thing that came to my mind then. It's been a long time since he terrorized Wikipedia, but I did feel there must be a connection to the state of mind I was trying to describe above. Thanks for your asking. --Prüm (talk) 05:09, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

I can not really pin down what has led me to do it, but it may be a combination of perceived stress from outside influences, lack of sleep and generally not paying enough attention to my inner voice anymore. I hope there is a way I can undo the damage done. --Prüm (talk) 05:58, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

I was in a state of acute mental anguish, which has subsided now. Invoking Grawp was a last ditch attempt to prevent any further damage from occuring through disruptive editing with my account, which I believe happened because I was feeling myself lose my grip over reality. You may look into my editing history, which wasn't suspicious until the last week or so. I wish to contribute to improving myself and others again through editing enwiki the way I did before, and therefore politely ask to be unblocked. I had my main account on dewiki unblocked already and was never blocked on meta, having withdrawn the block request there in time. Prüm (talk) 16:10, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I hope I will get to enjoy editing enwiki again. There are so many go- and nogo-rules that make life rather difficult here. I'll "see ya 'round", I guess. Thanks again for the block, and the unblock :-) --Prüm (talk) 08:36, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
As can also be seen, other than vague mentions of emailing ArbCom, which doesn't seem to have even happened, none of this clear evidence of this user having a serious mental disorder, really enters into the equation as far as deciding whether or not they should have been blocked, or has happened, should be unblocked. The only concern seems to have been the Administration's literal concern for the disruptive effect of the impersonation, and then bizarrely, establishing if the user actually wasn't who he claimed to be.

Maybe this user really is fine now, maybe he is in control of his own mind. Then again, maybe he is not. It seems obvious to me that the only sensible move here, for the benefit of the user and Wikiepdia, was to keep them blocked, and courtesy blank all information pertaining to it.

Only if they then present private evidence to the WMF that the have seen a medical professional who has signed off on the notion that them interacting with Wikipedia is a healthy activity for them, should they be unblocked.

User:Coffee

Too much has happened with this much documented user, who was a Wikipedia Administrator, to be repeated here. The executive summary is essentially that he had serious real world problems, that he repeatedly said and did things on Wikipedia that made it clear he was having difficulties coping, as he also tried to use Wikipedia as a coping strategy. Most if not all of the times he entered crisis mode on Wikipedia, it was either brought on or coincided with stressful situations he found himself in due to activities he performed as an Administrator, his judgement clearly clouded by his illness.

Rather than protect him from himself, the Wikipedians largely ignored what was infront of their faces, and carried on treating this user as if he was perfectly capable of dealing with the situations they were finding themselves in. As such, we were treated to the horrific sight of this guy becoming a pawn in certain people's sick wikipolitical games. Ultimately, it was left to the user himself to self-block, by which time the damage done was huge, both to himself and Wikipedia.

User:Malik Shabbazz

This guy has what the Wikipedians euphemistic like to refer to as a temper. As anyone can see, this isn't his issue at all. This guy has a deeply troubled mindset, resulting from a very odd personal backstory, and it is what clearly drives his interest in Wikipedia, which is solely as an activist. As such, he typically believes he is right and everyone who opposes him is wrong. The combination of this drive and his mental state, means an undercurrent of aggression and threatening behaviour is never far from what he does on the website.

On at least two occasions that I know of, he has gone beyond the sort of aggression that is hardly unknown on a website known for its tolerance of hostility, and completely flipped his lid. And tellingly, when he does this, he cannot be talked down or around, he can only be left alone in his rage, lest he double and even triple down. Despite this, the Wikipedians have been incredibly reluctant to call this what it is - an undiagnosed mood or impulse control disorder. Something other editors, the ones without such issues, deserve to be protected from.

Unbelievably, when his Administrator privelages were removed as a matter of emergency during one such incident, the completely unqualified members of ArbCom later declared his issues were no longer present, and he was free to regain his tools at any time, no questions asked. Showing that he probably knows himself better than they do, he has so far declined that offer. He has since done things which, you would hope at least, would mean he would not be allowed to become an Administrator again if it were up to the wider community. Then again, these are the very same people who have persistently ignored his episodes, downplaying it as merely a temper.

Rather amusingly, if you can really find humour in how the Wikipedians seem to love to ignore evidence of mental illness, Malik has an interesting history surrounding his own Wikipedia identity, in the sense of accounts. You could go so far as to call it a disorder, or at the very least an inability to realise that how they see their own actions, is not necessarily how others will see it.

Firstly, there't the fact he routinely edits from two accounts, Malik Shabbaz and MShabbaz, often both on the same day, even in the same conversations. Since this isn't remotely normal, it causes untold problems and confusion, but evidently Malik believes it is for everyone else to work around his apparent need to do this. Secondly, he has in the past edited as an IP, multiple IPs in fact, and apparently he made the same assumption that it was for other people to figure out it was him.

In both cases, the Wikipedians let this guy get away with roundly abusing anyone and everyone who presented legitimate, policy based complaints about these practices. His chosen form of abuse was, rather ironically, accusing people of being incapable of reading the very policies that made it clear what he was saying and doing was utterly wrong. He wasn't properly declaring his alternate accounts, and he did use IPs to disruptively sock.

It exceedingly common for Malik to accuse his opponents of being thick or stupid, and he routinely reacts to clearly presented evidence he has done wrong by simply ignoring it. Even on Wikipedia, being this much of an asshole to both your opponents and everybody else in the room isn't really common, certainly not among the regulars. In his case, when looked at his other issues, it arguably isn't just normal everyday assholery, but some kind of coping strategy. It is certainly another sign he has a mental illness which is severely hampering his ability to work acceptably with others.

At present, with the Wikipedians practicing such a devil may care attitude to serious problems like this, all we can essentially do is watch and wait for the next episode.

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AndrewForson
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Re: Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by AndrewForson » Thu May 31, 2018 7:36 pm

This is yet another example of what F.M. Cornford describes in his Microcosmographica Academica as "The Principle of the Wedge": you should not do the right thing now for fear of raising expectation that you will do the right thing in the future. It is the WMF's implicit excuse for inaction in all such cases.

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Re: Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by sashi » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:29 pm

Someone recently templated Bishonen, for which the readiest excuse in WikiLand appears to be mental illness.

Tony Ballioni wrote:Re: templating I appreciate that you may have other conditions that affect the way you interact with others. That's fine, but we have plenty of editors who are somewhere on the spectrum, and while learning the social norms of this only (sic: Tony may have meant "unique" or, less probably, "lonely") community can be more difficult for them than it may be for other editors, they tend to get along fine eventually. A brief note saying "Hey, why did you remove this?" would have done the trick and encouraged communication. Templates have a place, but that place usually isn't communicating with experienced users ;) ​ TonyBallioni (talk) 03:44, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

source

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:47 pm

The problem is if you enter a Wiki surrounding, you are not aware of what Tony called "the spectrum". Because "the spectrum" is everywhere, because for them wikipedia is a very attractive place. They find there a surrounding where they feel at home, but for someone who is not in the secure it's the digital hell.

My break trough can after I started to exam the user history of a certain user. because than it's very easy to find out if some is in "the spectrum" You see it in someones interests, temper tantrums, unreasonable behaving, and ...trolling. I don't know why but they all troll. And lie, and are using socks. They all have more then one identity. but they are lying in such a stupid way, it's more a soap. And if they get aware you understand they are trolling and lying they block you directly, because they have the power in their hands. And in that way a wiki ends up in a tremendous chaos with only lying and trolling artists, what happend on WP-NL. It's a pity you don't understand Dutch, but a Wikisage was a autist show you would not believe. They want to make that Ymnes a star writer and me to a fool who can't write, And are trolling themself in the most silly way in to heaven, and Guido too.

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Re: Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:57 pm

Hmmm, yes.
Wikipedia user wrote:I normally use templates, as my Aspergers Syndrome Autism means I do not write too well.
Queen Bitch wrote:I was concerned about your revert, not because you reverted an admin, but because you reverted a user who had given an ample explanation of their edit, and your revert gave no explanation at all. Do you have an excuse for that? Bishonen | talk 08:38, 12 May 2018 (UTC).
Knowing her like I do, I think it is fair to say she means to imply here that the user is using their condition as an excuse for not using an edit summary. It handily distracts people away from the fact the user has since given an explanation, she is just ignoring it, in favour of doing.....this.

Also, she rather hypocritically complains about this user having a misleading signature. Her. The horribly unfunny joker who runs around the wiki in an assortment of fancy dress costumes, dipping in and out of conversations where Her Bitchness has also commented using her official account.

Needless to say, someone on the spectrum trying to cope with Bishonen's sense of what is right and proper, is going to really struggle. She doesn't care. You adjust to her wants and predilictions, you answer her questions, you explain yourself of to her, not the other way around. She's cruel like that, but Wikipedia has no place for kindly Queens.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:31 pm

Wikipedia user wrote:I normally use templates, as my Aspergers Syndrome Autism means I do not write too well.


They can't write! Someone with Aspergers Syndrome can't write! And that is the reason they start to copy past parts of texts what generates copivio. Or try to find people who can write and obey them. But a content writer who has to be pariah has only one single answer, fuck yourself! Nobody accepted orders of someone who is not able to write even a simple article, and who want to be the almighty chef! And that is what went wrong and why a wiki fills itself up with fools. Who can't write.

The only thing I don't understand why they are always claiming I can't write, because I can. But they force with all there power a illusion I can't write. You see it with that ridiculous fight over that list of my articles what is going on for weeks. To create a story the autistic Ymnes is a writer. They want to transfer my writing talent to him. They want to suggest I have a mental problem and not Ymnes. With complete WMNL. Even with a SanFanBan. And that is because of there autism I suppose. Very, very weird.

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Re: Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by AndrewForson » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:13 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:Someone with Aspergers Syndrome can't write!

Graaf, you really need to know that this is untrue. Please stop writing prejudiced nonsense.

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Re: Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:48 pm

AndrewForson wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote:Someone with Aspergers Syndrome can't write!

Graaf, you really need to know that this is untrue. Please stop writing prejudiced nonsense.

No, in general they can't. But it is a spectrum, maybe some can. But what I have seen on WP-NL autistic people can't write. Also intelligent users, with a university degree can't write. Simple, the can't write, they are leaking any writing talent. Or they are translating from other wiki's, or there work is copivio if you look carefully. So, it is no nonsense. It is maybe not what you want to hear, but nonsens no. But for sure there will be some exceptions.

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Re: Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by Flip Flopped » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:59 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:
AndrewForson wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote:Someone with Aspergers Syndrome can't write!

Graaf, you really need to know that this is untrue. Please stop writing prejudiced nonsense.

No, in general they can't. But it is a spectrum, maybe some can. But what I have seen on WP-NL autistic people can't write. Also intelligent users, with a university degree can't write. Simple, the can't write, they are leaking any writing talent. Or they are translating from other wiki's, or there work is copivio if you look carefully. So, it is no nonsense. It is maybe not what you want to hear, but nonsens no. But for sure there will be some exceptions.
Have any professionals documented this alleged inability to write competently as a problem for people with autism? If not, is that a vast conspiracy?

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Re: Wikipedia and the mentally ill

Post by Flip Flopped » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:01 pm

I seem to recall that the admin Secret had to be de-adminned repeatedly for mental health issues.

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