Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

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Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby CrowsNest » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:02 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... hip/Fram_2

Seeing as it's going to be filed seconds after the Fram ArbCom case, we might as well start the thread for it early.

Cutting through all the bullshit, there really are only a few pertinent facts to consider.

There were two seriously bad mistakes in how he uses the tools that were uncovered in the Case, the block of Gorilla Warfare that should never have happened, and the excessive block length of his second block of Martinevans. Both were filed as community evidence, and both have been accepted by Fram as showing what they show, his only objection being to whether they support a desysop.

Both of those bad blocks occurred well after his March 2018 bout of introspection (in August 2018 and January 2019 respectively) where he had committed to rethink his approach. Combined with his Fuck ArbCom episode (and it was an episode, not a single comment), this is more than enough to convince anyone that Fram's promises or undertakings are pretty worthless.

He was already beholden to follow policy to the highest standards before he even made that promise. He had been an Administrator since 2007, so you can imagine why he is desperate for his whole history of getting away with it, should not be considered. As stupid as that is, fine. Hoisted by his own petard, as the phrase goes.

What you need to see here to trust that he has actually properly committed to changing his approach, is a sustained period of editing as an ordinary yoke, without any issues that remotely even come close to hinting at this sort of serious issue being a risk, if he were to be trusted with advanced tools. You need evidence.

You need to see Fram genuinely working with others, especially his colleagues, genuinely accepting he might not always be right, genuinely approaching the task of Administration as if it is about guidance first and reluctantly ejecting those who cannot change second, rather than simple enforcement, least of all black and white enforcement with an aggressive and hostile overtone.

Even after all the criticism, what Fram is actually prepared to admit about himself and what he needs to change, and indeed what he is definitely not going to change, is actually pretty unimpressive....
As for commitments from my side, I shouldn't have said "Fuck ArbCom". I normally stay away from such language, but then again, I normally don't have to deal with an ArbCom which so regularly makes a mess of things. But the misbehaviour of others is no excuse for my misbehaviour. So in the future I'll restrict my criticism to harsh, direct, precise, but more civil comments. I reserve the right to respond sarcastically to silly statements on my user talk page though, ..... Fram (talk) 06:57, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
He was given plenty of chances to realize for himself what might be an appropriate statement to make to reassure doubters, I gave a concrete list that address his specific problems, which basically all manifest when he is allowed to act unilaterally and doesn't let shit go. All he has actually done in this whole process is fight. He's wikilawyered the shit out of this whole thing, never really accepting he has anything to answer for, much less fix. The above are concessions offered begrudgingly, and only after he has exhausted everyone, even those trying to help him. Pride and an arrogant belief in his own version of the truth, still guides his every word.

The long and the short of it is, Fram is a loooong way from ever being capable of admitting he's just an asshole, he's always going to believe he is somehow the victim, that he is right and everyone else is wrong, and so whatever promise he ultimately gives, his true colors will always inevitably come out in how he Administrates, even in the highly important aspect of just how he conducts himself in discussions, rendering it worthless.

He arguably never was an Administrator, and is incapable of ever being one. Certainly not if measuring by the policy, not some of the dogshit that currently inhabits the office.

Watch these fools return him to the office anyway. After all, how can you refuse it, when you have freely given it to someone who happily breaks whatever rule he wants, Floquenbeam, and someone else who treated the process as a joke and literally personally attacked someone the day before he stood, RexxS. With that recent record of what "higher standard" really means at RfA, it certainly seems unfair to deny someone simply because they're just an everyday asshole by community standards.

As both those shit shows demonstrated, when it comes down to it, in the non-obvious cases of yes/no, in the grey areas, the very last thing it actually comes down to, is the likelihood the candidate can live up to and maintain the expected standards. Fram can't rely on personal friendships to get him over the line, like those two absolutely corrupt cases, but there will be something equally irrelevant that decides this. Especially if it comes down to the decision of the corrupt Bureacrats, who are now two for two in ignoring strength of argument in favour of the mob.
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Re: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby CrowsNest » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Prediction time.

I say he passes with 66%. There would be a 'crat chat, but they would just do something corrupt to get him over the line, as they have done this last two times. I bet even WJScribe would turn up and be allowed a vote. They're beyond shame these days. Used to be the 'Crats were meant to be solidly reliable and ultra-conservative. Now, they're the High Priests of a death cult.

I actually think people under-estimate the level of opposition Fram has, and it will end up being a 50/50 split between those who think Fram is fit to serve, and those who don't. A similar split will divide the not so sures, half wanting to see evidence he really can change, the other half stupidly assuming the last few months will have made sure he has changed.

What will double the support however, is all those dumb pricks who are gonna turn out and vote for reasons that have absolutely nothing at all to do with whether Fram is fit to serve or not. The major corrupt act of the Crats will be to give these idiots equal weight, because why the hell not? RfA is after all, a mechanism for wikipolitical action, nowadays. Their one small tiny way to send a message.

RexxS sent the message, civility definitely no longer matters in those who covet The Precious. Floquenbeam sent the message, yes we can do whatever the fuck we want, if we have The Precious. Fram will send the message that RexxS and Floquenbeam were no accidents, this is who we are, and you'll never ever stop us.

This is gonna be the start of Wikipedia's very own Jews will not replace us period. Dark times indeed.

Fram could actually finish higher, if most of the Jews have already realized there's not even any point turning up to oppose. It can't change the outcome, but it will put a target on your back. A person who has seen ArbCom get away with screwing them over this many times, and seen the Foundation just go along with it like it was nothing, no, they won't be coming here just to register a pointless protest vote.

Fram could fail of course, but only by his own hand. If he has learnt from RexxS and Floquenbeam, he has already realized he can secure lots of votes simply by holding the community hostage. He states he doesn't intend to withdraw and run again some point down the line, he states he doesn't intend to edit if he loses, and voila, a whole bunch of idiots who might have otherwise been neutral at the very least, will be happy to support. Blackmail works, and right under the noses of the 'Crats good who of course just look on with admiration, this being about politics now, not integrity. All about the W.
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Re: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby JuiceBeetle » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:28 pm

CrowsNest wrote:I say he passes with 66%.

With clear consensus to promote :lol:
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Re: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby Kumioko » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:19 pm

Honestly I think he will pass by a landslide. If he runs he will get a huge amount of sympathy support.
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Re: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby Carrite » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:55 pm

CrowsNest wrote:Prediction time.

I say he passes with 66%. There would be a 'crat chat, but they would just do something corrupt to get him over the line, as they have done this last two times. I bet even WJScribe would turn up and be allowed a vote. They're beyond shame these days. Used to be the 'Crats were meant to be solidly reliable and ultra-conservative. Now, they're the High Priests of a death cult.

I actually think people under-estimate the level of opposition Fram has, and it will end up being a 50/50 split between those who think Fram is fit to serve, and those who don't. A similar split will divide the not so sures, half wanting to see evidence he really can change, the other half stupidly assuming the last few months will have made sure he has changed.

What will double the support however, is all those dumb pricks who are gonna turn out and vote for reasons that have absolutely nothing at all to do with whether Fram is fit to serve or not. The major corrupt act of the Crats will be to give these idiots equal weight, because why the hell not? RfA is after all, a mechanism for wikipolitical action, nowadays. Their one small tiny way to send a message. * * *

Fram could fail of course, but only by his own hand...


All right, now you're talking my language, Mr. Crow.

Fram will withdraw at the 11th hour in the 50-60% approval range, clearly heading for failure. There are a lot of people who don't like him personally and there is a boatload of inflammatory diffs that can be produced to show him to be temperamentally unsuited.

I know I will be voting NO if he runs again...

RfB
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Re: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby Guido den Broeder » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:57 am

The predictions would have been closer to 10%/90%, but most of those 90% have been blocked.
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Re: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby CrowsNest » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:14 am

You can virtually guarantee he is not withdrawing, certainly not while he is above 50%. He's just spent the last two weeks arguing until he is blue in the face, that this.....
Carrite wrote:there is a boatload of inflammatory diffs that can be produced to show him to be temperamentally unsuited.
......is false. That is not the mark of someone who withdraws from an RfA while he is still mathematically supported by more people than oppose.

I will caveat that he may withdraw if he gets a sufficient shock from his early running. If he realizes he's genuinely going to have to work very hard to reach the crat zone, he's going to cynically withdraw so he can run again in six months. He can keep his nose clean for six months, even do a passable impression of a helpful Wikipedian, if he knows the prize of The Precious lies at the end of the rainbow. The guy would sell his own granny for it. The worst ones are the desperate ones.

It would be a good rule of thumb that would serve the community well. If you're the sort of person who clearly can't live with the thought of not being an Administrator, you probably shouldn't be one.
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Re: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby CrowsNest » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:21 am

Barely twenty people have welcomed him back so far. I've seen more Wikipedians get animated about bacon. This is certainly a fraction of the love shown for Jytdog, and he was a creepy stalker.

More importantly, he's not been welcomed back by anybody who really matters (not my phrase, just reflecting the growing belief in Wikipedia circles that at RfA, there are people's opinion who matter, and then there's the rest).

Definitely not as supported as some might hope, not him personally, as a human or an Administrator. My prediction seems sound.
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Re: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby Kumioko » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:26 pm

CrowsNest wrote:Barely twenty people have welcomed him back so far. I've seen more Wikipedians get animated about bacon. This is certainly a fraction of the love shown for Jytdog, and he was a creepy stalker.

More importantly, he's not been welcomed back by anybody who really matters (not my phrase, just reflecting the growing belief in Wikipedia circles that at RfA, there are people's opinion who matter, and then there's the rest).

Definitely not as supported as some might hope, not him personally, as a human or an Administrator. My prediction seems sound.

I'm kinda surprised. To be honest most people honestly do think he's a dick and probably deserved a ban. They just didnt like how the WMF banned an admin, for one year, on ENWP only. Had they made it site wide infldef, there would have been far less drama.
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Re: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

Postby Graaf Statler » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:55 pm

Kumioko wrote:I'm kinda surprised. To be honest most people honestly do think he's a dick and probably deserved a ban. They just didnt like how the WMF banned an admin, for one year, on ENWP only. Had they made it site wide infldef, there would have been far less drama.

They should blame themself for there laziness not to take action against Fram and not blame WMF.
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