Kumioko posting as Perseus until further decision

[Kumioko]

Today it is. We will see how he behaves tomorrow.

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1435&p=14136#p14130

BTW, Eric literally mentioned a couple names the other day that he knew left because of you.

Kumioko, once your block expired, and you logged in, please answer in your first post to this with a screenshot of that statement that you referred to.
Remember, you have 5 posts for today, and this is your only chance to prove you were not lying.

Just let me know when you are done with the hate blocking Juicebeetle!

[JuiceBeetle]

Just let me know when you are done with the hate blocking Juicebeetle!

Wrong answer.

Kumioko, once your block expired, and you logged in, please answer in your first post to this with a screenshot of that statement that you referred to.

You have 3 posts left to prove you weren't lying.

I warn you: this is your last chance to prove, or to stop blaming others, while you are lying continuously. If you fail, then you'll be only able to post after moderator approval.

[Kumioko]

Just let me know when you are done with the hate blocking Juicebeetle!

Wrong answer.

Kumioko, once your block expired, and you logged in, please answer in your first post to this with a screenshot of that statement that you referred to.

You have 3 posts left to prove you weren't lying.

I warn you: this is your last chance to prove, or to stop blaming others, while you are lying continuously. If you fail, then you'll be only able to post after moderator approval.

I DO NOT care what an abusive, hate enabling mod thinks. I have already complained to the site owners and my hope is they will deal with you and Crowsnest if they want this forum to succeed. It's entirely up them though if they want to have a successful forum or just another failure because a couple fools want to spew hate.

[JuiceBeetle]

Kumioko made his daily 5 posts in 14 minutes, continuing his complaints and accusations, while avoiding the only question he should have answered: to prove or come clean with one of his lies.
At this point, I do not intend to waste this much time policing his spam, and the resulting responses.

Kumioko's return awakened a tense situation, that I tried to moderate. Crow adapted to this new situation, and his posts became less harsh, and more civil criticism. Thank you for that, CrowsNest.
Kumioko on the other hand, is now just throwing insults and accusations to Crow, Abd, and me - anybody, who dared to ask him to act more reasonable, prove his claims, or dial back of the lies.

He's continuous insults here and mostly on discord, was too much. I might be too strict with blocking him, therefore I ask the other contributors, and the psyops, if they suggest some other resolution.
I'd suggest moving Kumioko to the New User group, to approve each of his posts, then unblocking him. On the moderator panel I cannot do this, therefore for the time being, I've blocked him indefinitely. He can post from his new account, Perseus, that he created from the same IP after I first blocked him for a day. Posts from Perseus require mod approval, and can be moved to the Kumioko account.

Kumioko admitted this sock account, after initially lying about this as well:

Kumi-sock-lie.png (4.96 KiB) Viewed 3999 times

Kumi-sock-admit-1.png (17.12 KiB) Viewed 3999 times

Kumi-sock-admit-2.png (21.53 KiB) Viewed 3999 times

[Abd]

We will see how he behaves tomorrow.

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1435&p=14136#p14130

BTW, Eric literally mentioned a couple names the other day that he knew left because of you.

Kumioko, once your block expired, and you logged in, please answer in your first post to this with a screenshot of that statement that you referred to.
Remember, you have 5 posts for today, and this is your only chance to prove you were not lying.

Kumioko appears to have written something from memory, and if it was incorrectly remembered, it was not "lying," and it is offensive, my view, to demand that he prove the statement, it stands as discredited unless evidence appears.

(He did lie about the alternate account, though. Again, stupid move. Creating an alternate account is not lying, unless you lie about it. Conscious lying is a very bad habit to get into, a slippery slope. It's perfectly okay to ignore demands about identity, which can easily be done on-line, since nobody actually sees you refusing to answer. When sock masters are shown to be lying, it solidifies opinion against them, this is yet another example of how Kumioko creates his own rejection.)

Kumioko is down and kicking him is to be avoided. One step at a time. Juice has now blocked Kumioko indef, pending owner review. Yet Juice has also left the alternate account open, the difference being that the alternate account requires moderator approval. It would be impossible to completely censor Kumioko, because he has means to contact many of the participants here, those he has not already burned out.

However, Kumioko was directly and blatantly defiant of moderator instructions, and that's an offense against the community. Moderators are appointed by the owners and are responsible to them. Defiance of an officer of the owner is defiance of the owner, and one can expect nothing but ban from that, unless the owners choose to tolerate it, in which case they risk losing the moderator (and maybe others).

This does not mean that the owners must accept the moderator decision, but I'd highly recommend that the owners make it clear that any moderator appointed by them must be respected, subject to appeal. Defiance pending appeal, in the real world, usually means spending time in the slammer even if you are eventually found not guilty of any crime. Defiance of a lawful order by one with the authority and discretion to issue the order is a crime in itself.

Yes, sometimes civil disobedience works. If you have a community behind you. On your own? Bye-bye, nice knowing you. Or not nice, depending.

[Strelnikov]

Kumioko made his daily 5 posts in 14 minutes, continuing his complaints and accusations, while avoiding the only question he should have answered: to prove or come clean with one of his lies.
At this point, I do not intend to waste this much time policing his spam, and the resulting responses.

Kumioko's return awakened a tense situation, that I tried to moderate. Crow adapted to this new situation, and his posts became less harsh, and more civil criticism. Thank you for that, CrowsNest.
Kumioko on the other hand, is now just throwing insults and accusations to Crow, Abd, and me - anybody, who dared to ask him to act more reasonable, prove his claims, or dial back of the lies.

Look I've told him this in PMs - Eric has told me that Kumioko was kicked from Wikipediocracy's board a number of times, but I'm not going to kick him out, he has to learn how to deal with this place. If he never changes, then we will discuss dealing with him then.

All I want is a board where we can get ex-Wikipedians in, I do NOT want this to be the Graaf Statler-CrowsNest-Kumioko show; they can have their scraps, but I want to attract more people. We're going to have to continue advertising (Mr. Barbour was emailing people at one point), but I think this could get to be a thriving place if the drama would just tamp down.

[Graaf Statler]

All I want is a board where we can get ex-Wikipedians in, I do NOT want this to be the Graaf Statler-CrowsNest-Kumioko show; they can have their scraps, but I want to attract more people. We're going to have to continue advertising (Mr. Barbour was emailing people at one point), but I think this could get to be a thriving place if the drama would just tamp down.

As you can see I have hardly posted anything anymore. But, as long as Crow and I post here, doesn't matter how moderated or how little we post you will not see here any (ex) wikipediaen. If you want I am absolute willing to limited my postings to three post a day, but still you will see not one wikipedian here. Except for trolling the place like Timmy did.

It's a sekt, a cult Steln. As long we are here they simple are not allowed to post here. But what do you have on your mind as a solution?

[Graaf Statler]

Kumioko made his daily 5 posts in 14 minutes, continuing his complaints and accusations, while avoiding the only question he should have answered: to prove or come clean with one of his lies.
At this point, I do not intend to waste this much time policing his spam, and the resulting responses.

Kumioko's return awakened a tense situation, that I tried to moderate. Crow adapted to this new situation, and his posts became less harsh, and more civil criticism. Thank you for that, CrowsNest.
Kumioko on the other hand, is now just throwing insults and accusations to Crow, Abd, and me - anybody, who dared to ask him to act more reasonable, prove his claims, or dial back of the lies.

He's continuous insults here and mostly on discord, was too much. I might be too strict with blocking him, therefore I ask the other contributors, and the psyops, if they suggest some other resolution.
I'd suggest moving Kumioko to the New User group, to approve each of his posts, then unblocking him. On the moderator panel I cannot do this, therefore for the time being, I've blocked him indefinitely. He can post from his new account, Perseus, that he created from the same IP after I first blocked him for a day. Posts from Perseus require mod approval, and can be moved to the Kumioko account.

Kumioko admitted this sock account, after initially lying about this as well:

I think both Crow and I now the forum is proper moderated absolute are willing to adapted to this new situation. because I hate the you have to fight your own way out approach of Wikipedia. A mod you can trust is so much better. And I think the system you suggest with approving Kum's edits is the only solution.

But are there other things you want us to improve?

[CrowsNest]

Kumioko made his daily 5 posts in 14 minutes, continuing his complaints and accusations, while avoiding the only question he should have answered: to prove or come clean with one of his lies.
At this point, I do not intend to waste this much time policing his spam, and the resulting responses.

Kumioko's return awakened a tense situation, that I tried to moderate. Crow adapted to this new situation, and his posts became less harsh, and more civil criticism. Thank you for that, CrowsNest.
Kumioko on the other hand, is now just throwing insults and accusations to Crow, Abd, and me - anybody, who dared to ask him to act more reasonable, prove his claims, or dial back of the lies.

Look I've told him this in PMs - Eric has told me that Kumioko was kicked from Wikipediocracy's board a number of times, but I'm not going to kick him out, he has to learn how to deal with this place. If he never changes, then we will discuss dealing with him then.

All I want is a board where we can get ex-Wikipedians in, I do NOT want this to be the Graaf Statler-CrowsNest-Kumioko show; they can have their scraps, but I want to attract more people. We're going to have to continue advertising (Mr. Barbour was emailing people at one point), but I think this could get to be a thriving place if the drama would just tamp down.

I cannot stress this enough, ex-Wikipedians will not respect anyone who is still under the illusion Kumioko can change. Even the people who liked him know this is basically his defining character trait. The dude literally doesn't change, no matter what is said or done to him to try to achieve it. It is so goddamned obvious sometimes, such as today's return, I genuinely wonder if he's doing it on purpose, just for a laugh. The world's longest ever piece of performance art.

A few hours earlier I was looking back through old threads, here and elsewhere, and it is AMAZING to see not only how he hasn't changed, but in lots of cases, the shit he says is virtually word for word the same shit he's saying now. All that changes is the target individuals or organizations. I couldn't find a single thing he has said about me here that he hasn't previously said about other people, except that pretty sick claim that I apparently find him so objectionable I'm gonna go looking for his identity and start posting pictures. He gets there from me spending three minutes looking at his public Wikipedia edits to prove he hasn't changed in five years. What an asshole.

And when you finally ban him, he'll say it about you too.

Mod note: Censored paragraph to: https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1439&p=14191#p14191

I ask you, so ask all of you, have I told a goddamned lie about Kumioko yet? Has anything I've said about him that you maybe thought was too unbelievable to be true (and wasn't obvious hyperbole), actually turned out to be false?

[JuiceBeetle]

A new proposal is taking shape to handle (and survive) this flame-war. Thanks to Princess for her uninvolved suggestions.

Restrictions for CrowsNest and Kumioko:
1. No posting in topics started by the other (the owner of the first post is Crow or Kumi)
2. No quoting of the other (in any thread, from any source)
3. No reply immediately after the other (in topics started by someone else, where both can comment)
4. No daily post limit, if I can keep up with moderation.

Sadly I'll have to delete violating comments. These will be lost, unrecoverable. Previously I moved those into the members-only area, and it took a lot of time.
Because Kumioko has a tendency to spam, and promised to ignore the restrictions, it's a question to me, whether to approve his posts, or let him do what he wants, and hope for the best.
I'm cleaning up the mess, so I'm biased on this, and prefer approval. Opinions welcome.
For the time being he can make approved posts with the "Perseus" account. I'll change the owner of those posts to Kumioko, if he requests that.
To all: Please share your views/suggestions on this proposal.

I would also appreciate help with the moderation, if someone is willing to help out.
I trust Abd (Mr Lomax) would be an experienced person in this role. Eric, Strelnikov: would you approve of him?
The community wasn't asked about me becoming a mod, but if Crow has an opinion about this, please don't keep it inside