Kumioko posting as Perseus until further decision

User avatar
JuiceBeetle
Sucks Warrior
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:27 pm
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Kumioko has been limited to 5 posts by Juicebeetle

Post by JuiceBeetle » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:59 pm

CrowsNest and Kumioko: I want to make sure both of you are aware.
:!: You are expected to NOT respond to each others' comments, at least for a week (until revoked).
Very likely I will be deleting those comments. If I skip, or move a comment, the next is not guaranteed to remain.

If you insist on commenting on the other, and don't want to lose your work, please make an offline copy for yourself.

User avatar
CrowsNest
Sucks Maniac
Posts: 4459
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Kumioko has been limited to 5 posts by Juicebeetle

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:12 pm

I've started saving every comment to draft first.

I will repeat, I am NOT going to stop dealing with this mental case if you can't stop him from doing stuff which should be absolutely prohibited here.

It's great that you're starting to realise what I was trying to tell you all along, but the price of your learning curve has been that his lies have only got more fantastical, and his accusations even more serious.

It may not matter to anyone else here if a suggestion that I find him such an annoyance I'm about to start posting pics of his family just stays on the board as if it is remotely even within the same universe as reasonable comment or any kind of recognized free speech, but that shit matters to me.

This is a reputation issue. I just can't take the risk that every single person who sees this shit, is gonna understand Kumioko is an absolute nutcase, and nothing he says can be believed, not normally, but especially not when he's on one of his victim kicks. After all, it took you a few weeks, and you still seem to be proceeding on the assumption you can somehow talk him down.

It is already outrageous that replies like this.....

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1439&p=14132#p14132

.....are being separated from the original claim, which now sits in the thread it was made, unchallenged, not by me, not by anyone.

You start denying me my right of reply completely, this shit's gonna go nuclear.

So you just make sure that every single one of his five allowed posts, don't contain anything like this, and there'll be no issue from me.

It's a shit job and I have every sympathy, but if you're gonna do it, do it properly.

User avatar
Graaf Statler
Side Troll
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Kumioko has been limited to 5 posts by Juicebeetle

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:15 pm

So you just make sure that every single one of his five allowed posts, don't contain anything like this, and there'll be no issue from me.

Fair claim, Sweety, and indeed you have a shit job. But Kum simple doesn't have to insult Crow is this way without the possibility to defend himself.

(I had missed it, otherwise I absolute had made a remark about this)

User avatar
JuiceBeetle
Sucks Warrior
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:27 pm
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Kumioko has been limited to 5 posts by Juicebeetle

Post by JuiceBeetle » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:24 pm

CrowsNest wrote:I will repeat, I am NOT going to stop dealing with this mental case if you can't stop him from doing stuff which should be absolutely prohibited here.

Being a mental case is not prohibited, afaik. It's a forum, people can say nonsense. Just like on WPS, there are commenters, who mostly add confusion. We ignore them.
Deciding what's nonsense is subjective, and we sometimes agree, sometimes don't. You give more heat to Kumioko, than he deserves, and that triggers his paranoid rage. Contradicting his statements without attacks would be easier to deal with.
I have to add, this improved a lot in the last weeks.

CrowsNest wrote:It is already outrageous that replies like this.....
https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1439&p=14132#p14132
.....are being separated from the original claim, which now sits in the thread it was made, unchallenged, not by me, not by anyone.

That caught my eye, too, that's when I started moving his comments to his topic: https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1435&p=14136#p14130
The topic for Kumioko's nonsense is intentionally separated from your comments, to break up the fight. This back-and-forth today, with comments between you every 5 minutes, is what I'm trying to stop. Discord is for such fast-paced fights, if you want to continue this, not the forum.
Alternatively, you can write in your terror topic, what you want. Kumioko is NOT expected to answer there.
I've left a few earlier comments from him, to keep the context of your comments. If you don't want those there, flag them.

CrowsNest wrote:You start denying me my right of reply completely, this shit's gonna go nuclear.

Don't create unnecessary drama, or wear safety glasses. 8-)

CrowsNest wrote:So you just make sure that every single one of his five allowed posts, don't contain anything like this, and there'll be no issue from me.
It's a shit job and I have every sympathy, but if you're gonna do it, do it properly.

I don't know how far I'll go with moderation / censorship. I did not want to go this far. Flag comments after a day, if I miss something.

User avatar
CrowsNest
Sucks Maniac
Posts: 4459
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Kumioko has been limited to 5 posts by Juicebeetle

Post by CrowsNest » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:07 am

We've banned plenty of mental cases as far as I know.

Nobody is seeking to deny him his right to be crazy, if you think that adds value. I just want right of reply, in situ.

Any problems it causes, is clearly a result of the unwise decision to allow that brand of crazy, rather than respecting my right of reply.

Clear and simple statements, such as "stop lying Kumioko", are greeted with the same level of crazy as harsher responses, as far as I can see.

He reacts to my posts wherever they are made, and even reacts to silence. So the assumption that rapid fire fights cannot occur under this system, is clearly faulty.

Contradiction is what he can't handle, not even when caught bang to rights. Does your proposal address that? Obviously not.

User avatar
Graaf Statler
Side Troll
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Kumioko has been limited to 5 posts by Juicebeetle

Post by Graaf Statler » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:43 am

I know, I hate blocking, but are we now not keeping Kum here in our house with as only reason we don't like blocking?

Because I don't see any improving in his postings. I can't say I see any progress....

Is this not the famous dead horse, Sweety? :roll:

User avatar
JuiceBeetle
Sucks Warrior
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:27 pm
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Kumioko has been limited to 5 posts by Juicebeetle

Post by JuiceBeetle » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:45 am

Today it is. We will see how he behaves tomorrow.

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1435&p=14136#p14130
Kumioko wrote:BTW, Eric literally mentioned a couple names the other day that he knew left because of you.

Kumioko, once your block expired, and you logged in, please answer in your first post to this with a screenshot of that statement that you referred to.
Remember, you have 5 posts for today, and this is your only chance to prove you were not lying.

User avatar
Abd
Sucks Warrior
Posts: 749
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:22 pm
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Kumioko whining pit (Kumioko trying to stand up for hims

Post by Abd » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:34 am

Simple advice. Kumioko, STFU.
Not forever. Just stop the knee-jerk reactions. I see you complaining about things that you could easily handle if you just stopped reacting, and started focusing on what will really benefit you and others.

My conclusion is that you want to be blocked, that it serves you in some way to define yourself as a victim. And that is not uncommon, but leads to a person wasting their life. If I'm wrong, so what?

You have now been informed that mods here can see IP address. So unless you take precautions, socking will be identified. But why would you create a sock when you can actually post what you might post here, unfettered, if you simply follow local rules, the most basic of which is: if a moderator sets a restriction, follow it. (And you can keep copies and publish them elsewhere. You can archive a post immediately on archive.is.) Or leave. It's true, you can choose to instead defy authority. But if you make that choice, you will be rejected and defined as disruptive, as has certainly happened before. Keep up the same behavior, see the same results. Is this what you want?

You have only been blocked intermittently here. You've been given far more leeway here than on WMF wikis or on WPO. Your response: intensify the complaints. My guess is that sometime, somewhere, somewhen, this worked for you, so it became a habit. It's deadly. It will wreck your life, piece by piece, area by area. It will destroy every relationship.

So now is an opportunity to transform. Will you take it? I'm not holding my breath, though I certainly have wishes. It's up to you, you create your life, not me, not JuiceBeetle, not CrowsNest or Graaf Statler, not the WMF, not even your parents any more, not anyone or anything but you. If you love what you create, fine, because it is what you will live with. Forever, actually, until and unless.

User avatar
Graaf Statler
Side Troll
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Kumioko whining pit (Kumioko trying to stand up for hims

Post by Graaf Statler » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:38 am

The only thing I still have to say is if the Dutch and English wiki community had given me the same opportunity as Kum gets now it had made me very happy, and I hadn't been here the rebel pulled to the floor to use Steve Harley's songtekst.
Special the part don't react on... I like very much.
The CaAL's, Fram's and Boing's, the wiki block wonders of this wiki world are not any solution.


If I had had the change to tell my complete story in a quiet surrounding there had not been a flag parade in the Euro Parlement and it had saved the foundation millions of donor money what is now flushed trough the toilet.

If Guido had had the change to tell his side of his story in a normal way there had not been a Framgate with all kind of Wikipedians who are now sitting on the cistern lid of the Fram cesspit. Because that is going on.

It had saved wikipedia two nail biting potential fatal scandals.

User avatar
CrowsNest
Sucks Maniac
Posts: 4459
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 am
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Kumioko whining pit (Kumioko trying to stand up for hims

Post by CrowsNest » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:34 pm

The reactivity is an issue, but it's not the issue, in terms of what would need to be addressed, if changing Kumioko is the goal here.

The issue is the guy really does love simply defining himself as a victim, and acting accordingly. While I doubt the goal is to actually get banned (since it obviously serves some need he has to keep on telling his story to be able to stay in a venue as long as possible), the act of being banned/shunned serves his deep need to be a victim, so he'll never really commit to doing anything that avoids that, if, and his is crucial, doing so stops his ability to keep telling his tales of woe, over and over and over.

To put it another way, this is his basic programming...

1. Fill a forum with his tales of woe and half-assed "criticism"
2. If you can't do 1., get banned/shunned
3. Find another venue
4. Goto 1.

He does have the ability to temporarily focus on half-assed criticism and markedly reduce the tales of woe if he thinks there will be a temporary tactical benefit (delaying the move to step 2.), but this is only ever a temporary change.

It is clear from all the past cycles we have seen, first at Wikipedia, then at a succession of critic forums, that he doesn't have the ability to make this change permanently. Whack the box and he sharp resumes the full programme, and that's all I did, whack the box. It would require him to be decompliled and reprogrammed to ensure a permanent change, and I am quite certain there's nobody here with the required skills to do that.

This is what people really, genuinely, need to understand - nothing he has said about me in recent weeks, is either original, or exclusive to me. He has been doing this for years, often word for word, as if he really is just copy-pasting it from his previous endeavours. His approach to his critics is formulaic, programmatic.

For no other reason than I made it clear I do not believe his claims and theories (with evidence and reasons behind me) and stated that his endless repetition of them regardless grinds my biscuits, he has classified me as an enemy. This is all you need to do to earn this classification, as many have found out over the years, be they innocent bystanders who only briefly interacted with him, and those who took a deeper interest in him, with a view to fixing him, or at least reducing the harm he causes.

The only way you avoid this classification, is if you do not interrupt step 1. in any way. Sure, you can get away with a few polite attempts to query it, but you soon find out that the words are wasted. If you even get a reply, what follows is never really an intelligent discussion on the specific topic, and after a perfunctory statement that appears to address your post, you can see he just ends up circling back to step 1.

So, what does his basic programming tell him about how to react to enemies?

1. Tell them he doesn't care what they think (ignorance)
2. Engage in childish repetition of their criticisms of him back at them (mirroring)
3. Tell them they can't stop him doing what he wants (obstinance)
4. Tell them they can't bully/intimidate him (defiance)
5. Send countless private messages to anyone he thinks can help him eliminate this enemy (noise making)
6. Accuse them of being part of the conspiracy against him (conspiracy theorising)

Note how all of those behaviours are marked by their simplicity, things a very basic program would be able to produce. None are dependent on processing the input on any complex fashion, and indeed as we can see, the outputs are delivered randomly. As behavioural scientists know, it is often the case people mistake random but simplistic behaviour, for evidence of intelligent life, capable of adapting, learning, and then waste hours, months, even years, on fruitless attempts to communicate, before finally realising their study subject was a simple single-celled organism after all.

Worth noting is that in addition to those basic programming steps, as a slightly more intelligent but in another way equally simplistic behaviour, he'll often deploy any measure he thinks will exploit whatever defensive measure the organism he is infecting at any one time, deploys. Hence why he has changed his declared strategy from ignoring me, to stating he is going to reply to every post I make.

He would never have said that if it hadn't been announced that the staff were going to try rate limiting. It seeks to blame me for his inability/refusal to comply with even a simple direction with a clear and obvious benefit to someone claiming to be a serious critic here for the right reasons, when the real blame lies with his programming, which is designed for anything but. Because why else is there this the non-compliance? There basic inherent conflict with step 1, which requires him to progress to step 2. So it is written in the punch cards, it will come to pass.

You can see the simplicity of the programming by realizing that he never did actually ignore me, he only said he would, to try and solicit sympathy, and it even briefly worked, albeit probably not wholly because everyone here is aiming to fix Kumioko. You also see the simplicity in how he continues with this defective strategy of yapping away, even though he has already received a short block for it. A series of short blocks are what he wants, if a ban is out of reach, because we are already on Step 2 of his programming.

Sure, he doesn't usually gratuitously insult his active enemies in the field of current battle, nor descend to the more disgusting accusations he has made recently, but that really is only because he understands that these are things that will always prematurely advance him from step 1. to step 2. before he is ready. Again, not a complex thing, just something a simple organism trying to obey its basic programme, would do.

He only started doing it to me, because he knows (because I've told him many times), I got his number years ago, I reverse engineered his dumb ass, and so he resorts to this out of sheer frustration. It's probably been a surprise to him that he hasn't been banned for this conduct here, because of our buccaneering spirit.

I imagine he's probably quite confused as to what to do next, hence these rather ridiculous claims he has a real life, to explain his absences. In reality, he's simply trying to get to grips with not having the lines of code needed to deal an unexpected scenario. His program wasn't written for this situation. He was written for environments where there would always be some means he can follow the steps. So I guess in some way we should be pleased he now seems to be defective, take it as a success, since our goal is not to be like Wikipedia or Wikipediocracy.

The combination of my dogged insistence that I will simply not repeat the same mistakes made by a hundred previous people on quite a few different platforms, namely of simply accepting the fact that if Kumioko gets dumped in your lap you just have to accept him trying to execute his programme and therefore accept all the effects of his programming, is why we now might be making progress, in producing this temporary failure mode. Because make no mistake, being unable to execute Step 1., but also being unable to progress to Step 2., is an Unhandled Exception Error for the Kumioko unit.

He may have hung. He may have shut down and issued an error message for The Creator. Most likely he in simply rebooting, and we'll see him return in good time, back at Step 1. But I would frankly fall off my chair with amazememt if this temporary interruption of service somehow, by some miracle, results in a Kumioko that doesn't follow his programming on his return.

It is indeed an interesting question why he is like this. As in, is it learned behaviour? Has it really ever worked for him, such that he might have decided it was a good strategy? Not that I am aware of. It only makes sense if his strategy really is to die alone, with everyone he has ever met, friends and enemies, hating his guts. A situation that to him is unimportant, desired even, because he will be content in the sweet isolation of death, still convinced his fantasies are the reality, and everyone else was just an unbeliever, who has surely gone to hell for the sin of not accepting his words as scripture. Is he religious? Does he imagine an afterlife where he is Risen, and the Church of Kumioko has its Origin Story. Makes as much sense as anything else, because the bloke is clearly fucking in-sane.

I say he came like this out of the factory. Sometimes the thing is just broken right out of the box. Can we get a refund? Not with a product this old, this worn out. Me kicking a few dents in his casing probably won't help our chances either. Can we get a replacement? No.

The factory only made one of this particular item, before a mysterious accident destroyed all the tooling. Others out there are like him, cheap knock offs usually, but this one is unique, special, Original. There was a rumour a rogue spark from the first unit was responsible for the accident, but alas the CCTV evidence was lost. Maybe more were made but maybe they're all at the bottom of a lake or in a landfill, their first owners having quickly realized the unit was defective and the suppliers were to blame.

As we all know, this particular unit's first owner, doesn't have a great reputation for responsibly disposing of their defective property. No, all too often, one of the corrupt employees ends up selling it via the back door to some mug punter. After many subsequent exchanges, with less and less money changing hands, he finally ended up here. We managed to loan him back to Wikipediocracy one last time, but of course they soon realized they no longer needed his shiny lights and noise making ability to attract attention, so they returned him.

As much as I want to secure a permanent trade to Team Discord where he is apparently doing a fine line in side-whinging, perhaps in exchange for some magic beans, I really do think the best way forward for everyone is to just slap a defective label on him, and stick him in the back of the cupboard. Who knows. Maybe a Psychiatrist will join this forum at some point and we can ask if he is interested in a little side project, fixing a piece of really old junk we are just too sentimental to throw away. Discord will maybe even claim they have the original anyway, perhaps for the same reasons Wikipediocracy wanted him around, but we'll know the truth. We have the warranty, and the original discs.

Post Reply