Wikipedia Sucks!

Why is everybody so obsessed by what Reda is saying? Here again on Jimbotalk, again it is about Julia Reda and I have the idea in the Wikiworld no-one has even a idea who she is!

Julia Redia is the MEP of the Pirate Party, and it is worth to have a look what the pirate party is. Well, very simple, it is nothing, it is a empty shell because they have hardly any voters and I suppose in the next elections of the European elections they will disappear complete. They have in non of the European parliaments a representative, in Holland they got in the last election 35.478 votes......

What do you wiki guys expect? A change after the European elections? Forget it, that is not how Europe works
There wil be no political campagnes, there will be no inspiring candidates, and there will be hardly voters. Only the die hard supporters of political party's vote because we all know deep in our hart European voting is useless. Your vote is symbolic.

Our political system is a technocratic one with regents, we have no direct politic. Nobody will call "his" or "her" MP, because a M(E)P is hardly free to handle, he or she is a part of the party politics. Our European politic works with commissions with experts like the Jura commission in the EU. And there are many, many of that kind of commissions who makes all kind of package deals. If you accept this, we will help you there. All right, that is what we do. You get change for your vote, your yes. M(E)P's gets orders to vote in the way they do from there party leader.
Article11 and 13 are for sure a part of a bigger deal. And that can be for instance about the potatoes in Romania. This is how Europe works inside, it is all party politic.
They are the cooks, they make the political meals what for everybody is acceptable and the politicians eat it. And individual politicians can hardly change anything and it is imposible to break a European decision open for this reason. Ask Varoufakis, he wrote a book about European politics, he can tell you how it works. Adults In The Room: My Battle With Europe's Deep Establishment, A battle you can't win. He couldn't and the wiki mouvement can neither. Nobody can. European politics are a black box.

As you can read in the postings of Reda Germany and France makes the tune at the moment in this discussion, so you can spell on it they have given something in return we don't know in some Brussels back room. Because that is how the game is played. Give someting in exchange to get what you want, and Germany and France are so powerful in the EU that they always get what they want and this time too. It's a lost battle, it was a lost battle from the first moment on. But when I said that you guys kicked me out with your idiots and wijdbekken like Dimi, trolling Roommmiannaa=>Wikimediaaaaa and your Gelach.
You are a bunch of bloody fools and that is what you are. A bunch of irresponsible puddinheads.

RTG wrote:I think it might be illegal for me to post a copy of this information in Europe. I'd better stop living in the past. I just can't seem to afford the future though. ~ R.T.G 00:47, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
(Source Jimbotalk)

No, RTG, as I have tried to explane from 2012 on on WQ-NL copyright violations are forbidden from 1912 on. (If the quote you gave is a copyright infringement of course.) Because from that year is our Dutch copyright law. And I hope you understand the jurisdiction of the American legal system stops at the American border, so you have to deal with local regulation.

If madam gender pee in the streets of Amsterdam a Dutch policeman or woman will write here a ticket of 90 euro, because the local regulation forbids that. She simple can't appeal on American regulation, although I don't know what a American police officer will do if I do if I pee in the streets of LA, but for sure I am not gonna try it.
Article 13 is only a filter, material what is not breaking our copyright law will pass, will be allowed. You can publish as much texts, pictures as you want in the EU under any license you want in the future as long as you one the rights yourself! It's is a huge misunderstanding that will be forbidden.

Well, what is article 13? Article 13 is a cop how will catch people form inside and outside the EU how are pissing on our copyright law. People who doesn't respect our copyright law. Democratic formed laws whether you agree or not. So what for the hell wants the free source mouvement, because that is complete unclear.
No filters and no cops in the street of Amsterdam so every Dutch person and tourist can pee in out streets? Is that what you want? Well, the only thing I have to say is get lost. Pee and poop in your own streets of LA an SanFan if you like that so much. But not in ours.

In my opinions it opmerkelijk, very weird, a foundation who is claiming to be the world's guardian against so called "fake news" is spreading constant fake news and disinformation itself. And called the right information systematically "harassment" and SanFanBan's the one who is giving that because it should be "abuse".

madam gender wrote:If I have a chance I will try to write something about abuse, because as I said before, it is very complicated, to even understand what abuse is, and then what to do about the abuse.

Well, I am really looking forward for that, madam gender.

On Jimbotalk: TheSmartPersonUS1.

I am not in Europe, but God, who knows what will happen next in Europe? Will a lot of people protest? (Yes)

No mister TheSmartPersonUS1, there is not any protest in Europe and there is nothing about it in the news.
This is in the news at the moment: UK Parliament calls Facebook 'digital gangsters' which violated privacy laws.
There is not any sympathy for American internet firms anymore in Europe as you can see. The people of Europe want all this protection in general. They support it.

Will all of the countries of the EU leave?

There is not any indication for at the moment. Not any country except England want to leave the EU.

They have no right for this to happen.

I back you pardon mister TheSmartPersonUS1? Does't the people of Europe have no rights? And doesn't have there chosen politicians no rights? Well, that is great and smart news from America.

I don't know what will happen to Europe now... From America.

Simple, nothing. Article13 will smoothly pass and implanted and that is it. And the American internet enterprises including WMF/Wikipedia will get a very hard time. Europe is sick and tired of them.

User:Ca2james wrote:"Don't let Europe take your freedom"? How is that neutral, accurate, or fact-based?

You are complete right mister Ca2james to ask, because it is Utter Fucking Bullshit.

I think encrypted SNI may be the game changer from a technical perspective. As it is implemented by major browsers and then major hosting platforms, the calculus starts to change. Right now, it is possible to block/ban a single domain name hosted by Cloudflare or AWS or any other major provider. After encrypted SNI rolls out, the choice will be the much more difficult choice to block all of Cloudflare or all of AWS, which even the Chinese would struggle to do, as these and other major providers carry a huge chunk of Internet traffic.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:22, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Jimbotalk

Relaxe Jimmy, relax. States will always be better in building firewalls and strong messages than internet cowboys. A state can put the complete internet on black, change it in a intranet just like North-Korea did, give heavy fines like the EU does now, block wikipedia like China and Turkey does, they are free to do whatever they want. That is the reality Jimmy, you have to live with it.
We, ordinair and individual people of those countries can't change much in this process. Or don't want to do that, because we Europeans are sick and tired of the Silicon Valley dominance in Europe. Our politicians are just doing there job, are doing what we ask them. Because we start to realise ourself we must create our own Facebook, our own European Google and who knows our own European or local Wiki. Just like the Chinese do.

You free source freaks even claims we haven't that right. You think you can beat our governments, but is that fair? And is that true? No Jimmy.
And is America at the moment the lighted example how a government must operate? And should it be my right as a Dutchman to tell what your American parliament has to do? I don't think so jimmy.
And do I have any power to do that? No jimmy. I don't even have the power to beat a dent in a package of butter, and so are you. If a government takes a decision we only can except that jimmy, there is no way out.
And both you and I are so lucky to live in a democratic country, so we can give at least one vote from time to time and that is it, so count your blessings Jimmy. And close you realty gap, it is about time you do.

Still on Jimbotalk

@EllenCT: I mean the phrase "Don't let Europe take your freedom" is not neutral, accurate, or fact-based, and is sensationalistic in tone. Are people about to be locked up en masse, or their civil liberties taken away if Article 13 is passed? No. They're not. But the use of "freedom" implies all that and so reads to me as sensationalistic propaganda. Also yes I do prefer "freely-licensed content" over "free content". Ca2james (talk) 14:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Good posting, James. But what interesting is is why 'freely-licensed content' is under treat. Because that is not because of article 13, article 13 is only a kind of camera behind a (red) traffic light. It is a filter, a control unit .

The treat of 'free licensed content' is caused by the European country's copyright laws , what already exist for years and years. We are talking about something illegal, using protected material and "copyleft" that and spread it over the world. Because that is that so called "free licensed content" where we are talking about. It is 'copylefted' material by Wikipedians without any legal base. There it is about, and the huge question is, is that what you want? Is that what you want to promote?

Drunk driving in Holland is not much of a problem, there are hardly police controls. I have been maybe checked for alcohol twice in my 40 years of driving and one time was even in Switzerland.
Does that make drunk driving allowed in Holland? Because there is hardly any control? No, of course not, wait till you make a accidents when you have drunk to much. And this is about the same.

Something illegal happend on a large scale for years and years. Copyleft, there is no legal base for in Europe, and the EU places filters. Camera's, police controle, filters, it is the same. And that is the fake news what is spread. Article13 is not about copyright, it is about responsibility, I said it many times before. Copyright in Europe is something like the Centennial Light, the Dutch copyright law exist from 1912 on, and article13 is only about who is responsible for copyright violations. (Thanks for the tip of that lamp, Mies.)

O, o, o, O! Here starts Doc James, our fact checking doctor of the world again to post Pirate Party bullshit of Julia Reda with disinformation!.Because this is complete rubbish! (In German)
Because Axel Voss knows exacte what he is saying, and it is in no way Das "absolute Unverständnis" des Axel Voss. Always nice if you understand German,and I am afraid you don't do, doc.

Deutlich wurde dies auch bei der Frage, welche Plattformen überhaupt von Artikel 13 betroffen sind. Hierbei sagte Voss: "Uns geht es im Grunde immer nur um die Plattformen, die genau wissen, dass sie urheberrechtlich geschützte Materialien auf ihrer Plattform haben. Und das nicht per Zufall irgendwie haben, weil mal irgendjemand irgendwas hochgeladen hat. Sondern nur, wo es auch noch bestimmte Mengen von urheberrechtlich geschützten Werken gibt." Eine Definition, die beispielsweise exakt auf Wikipedia zutrifft, wo Autoren ihre urheberrechtlich geschützten Artikel oder Fotos unter einer CC-Lizenz veröffentlichen.

Which platforms are affected by Article 13? "Basically we care about the platforms who know themself they have copyrighted materials on their platform". A definition that applies indeed exactly to Wikipedia, where authors publish their copyrighted articles or photos under a CC license. That is correct.

Here you are, Article13 is a full hit for both Wikipedia and Commons and Wikidata too. It will kill them. But that doesn't mean Mister Alex Voss doesn't understand what they are doing or what he is saying? Of course he does! They make the American system of copyleft impossible in Europe, they know exacte what they are doing!
But that was always illegal as explained several times before, so there is nothing new, the only thing they do is stopping the practice of CC piracy.
And yes, that shall make people sad, it can make Jimmy and Doc James sad, and it can make Julia Reda sad, but as long she hasn't any political support and Alex Vos has, nothing is gonna change anymore. It is as simple as that, the die is cast.

Julia Reda is a political coincident and a nothing, she has not any political power and in may I think they will disappear complete out of the European Parlement in the next elections. Her mission was imposible and in advance lost in the legal patchwork of Europe with it's unpredictable Code Napoleon system and very weird political decision system in the European Parlement. Her vision had never any change.
Romaine and friends never had a change too for the same reason, and believe me, I only have tried to warn them but they didn't want to listen. Not to arguments, not if I explained it together with Waledad in the most moderate way, no, they only mute me constant and trolled me out.

Am I angry about that SanFanBan? Yes and no. For myself not, I am not angry at all in the way Kum is. I can live perfect without Wiki things, I have better things to do in the short time of life what for me is left what makes me very happy because it is a extra gift. But angry is the wrong word. Disapointed, deeply disapointed. is better.
Disapointed in the Wikipedians, disapointed in WMF. A WMF what keeps on silent although they must know they made a tremendous and very expensieve blunder.
Alexander has left, is making chocolate for his new colleges for Valentines day, seems to me positive, but WMF is doing........ nothing.
And Doc James disappoint me. A doctor, a trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation who is using trash sources to make here a point. Trustee of the Wikimedia foundation, the center of the fact checking world. How is it possible!

Not a change, Doc. Better to look here, Kevin Kühnert is Bundesvorsitzender der Jusos, Jungsozialistinnen und Jungsozialisten in der SPD. That's a breeding pond, but not a serious political power. Article13 has past the Bundesregierung, and it is impossible to turn that back without a huge political crisis and they end of Merkel's government.

And also demonstrations doesn't help, that is not the way European politics functional. If millions and millions people go on the street who knows, but all these kind of small protest have no influence. The case has die doc, live with it.
Because the political forces who want this article13 both in France and Germany are so strong and the extreem powerful muttie Merkel and here party is supporting it, it is not gonna change anymore. The SPD is nothing without Merkel her support. And if you don't know anything about European politics it doesn't make a clever impression if you just google a few facts, Doc. You have to know the contexts and where it is about, what is clear you don't do. It is better if you keep yourself to your stethoscope.

I am real wondering how a director (Katherine Maher), a frontman (Jimmy Wales), and a trustee (Doc James) of the Wikimedia Foundation even can think such a call should make any difference.

https://twitter.com/Senficon/status/1102842885907595264

Of course it is fine this guy shares his concerns with a assistent of a MEP about article13. And it is fine a few people demonstrate, but how in the world is it possible WMF has followed this latest progressive cause du jour complete blind as there course? How in the world it even possible to think this guy, or "Romaines Belgium Chapter" or there "Brussels Advocating Group" total uninformed could change anything?
Or Julia Reda can with all respect? They are dropped out from all German state parliaments in 2017, they continued to decline in 2017 according to -you won't believe it- the Wikipedia article on WP-EN!
In Holland they even don't join the coming European Parlement elections our Statenverkiezingen this month! (Something like the German state elections, very important because the provinces, states as you want, choose the Eerst Kamer, our Senate.)

The Pirate Party continued to decline in 2017, dropped out from state parliaments. In the Saarland state election in March 2017 the Pirate Party received only 0.7% of the voter share and therefore lost all its seats in the Landtag of the Saarland.[42] With the North Rhine-Westphalia state election in which it lost every seat, the Pirate Party is no longer represented in any (German) state parliament.

YouTube link

Graaf Statler wrote:Why is everybody so obsessed by what Reda is saying? Here again on Jimbotalk, again it is about Julia Reda and I have the idea in the Wikiworld no-one has even a idea who she is!
Julia Redia is the MEP of the Pirate Party

That's all ya need to say. That "party" was originally started because of one of the endless attempts to pull down the Pirate Bay site and prosecute its operators. Many little boys were angry that someone took away their easy source of pirated bittorrents for porn manga and games. Really bad pretext for starting a political party and I am surprised it lasted as long as it did.

European politics are a black box.

A big ugly broken one.

PS: you can post responses here to the gabble on Jimbotalk if you want. Few-to-none of them will even look at this website, so I'm not sure if anything will get thru. They are probably telling each other "ignore that shitty forum, it's just a bunch of banned users" etc. Time was when they actually PAID ATTENTION to Wikipedia Review and Wikipediocracy, because valid criticisms were routinely posted. But now they think they "won the critic war" and can blow off everyone not "of the body" or otherwise co-opted by their little "cult". That classic Wiki-Arrogance continues.

Just for a reminder, Strel recently posted the old Fastlizard4 IRC captures on his blog:
http://wikipedia-sucks-badly.blogspot.c ... -dump.html
it's long, and stupid, and sad. And Jimbo participated heavily.

O, I have no illusions. I think most of our regular visitors are the die hard hardcore of the advanced wiki tolls who are reading here.
But I think this good a picture of the EU and the situation how it is:

https://twitter.com/heuteshow/status/11 ... 9126403072

See the EU as a long table. Mutti Angela Merkel is sitting in the middle with the pans and pots and on one site of her is sitting Uncle Marcon from France, and on the other site Cousin Mark Rutte from the Netherlands. And who is sitting on that table the closed to Muttie Merkel gets the biggest potion and the best food. So, everybody want to sit as close as they can to her.
And that is the European politic. The real European politic I mean. And the Parate Party in this proces? HA! They don't even get the leftovers from the table, the left overs are for the east and south Europan country's if they say in a very polite way danke mutter afterwards.