And here Somey hit on the key to the whole thing.

[Graaf Statler]

In the courtroom:

Lomax: All my fault you honourable, all my mistake was that accident. If I had known that rental car had tyres without any profile, a worn out steering and poor brakes I had never, never rented it.

Kumioko: O, that poor Lomax, I'm just hoping that the rental firm will reveal more about how the process works internally and how much this cases ends up costing them.

Judge: 25 million dollar compensation for the rental firm for destroying there good name and reputation and you are lucky I don't send you to prison for 25 years, mister Lomax!

A lot of noise.

Still the judge: (Beng, bang beng, hammer of the judge, because the employers of the rental firm freak complete out!) Order, order in my court room! Mister Lomax has the last word.

Lomax: Do you want to take care about my canary, Kumiko? I can't pay the food for the poor animal anymore, and here madam the judge, here, my last 500 dollar after I sold all my belongings, my computer was a 1987 model I got from Vigilant what he couldn't use anymore for his hacking activity's. It was only 25 euros worth. It was a strange Dutchman who wanted to pay 25 euro for it, called Graaf Statler. He said he wanted to give it back to it's first owner because in the Dutch prisons are computers without internet allowed, and the man who owned it was able to hack computers for the seventies on without internet with that type of computers.

[Graaf Statler]

My favorite part of this will be watching Abd and Graaf move from smug certainty to dismay.

Jones Day is going to drag Abd.

The goalpost moving after every loss will be delicious.

All of a sudden the lawyer of Jones Day pointed at older man what was in the audience in the courtroom. Beside him was standing Vigilant how said to the lawyer, Tyson, with one uppercut takes his damn head of. What is going on asked the judge? Fencing stolen property shouted Vig, he was still a bit pale of his time in the Dutch prison and had lost weight, he did like the Dutch food so much. What? My computer! Lomax had stolen it from me and has sold it to Stater! Arrest that Statler guy!

To big American police officers came in to the courtroom and both Abd and Statler where total deciclous. At that moment the judge took a wise decision, lets hear the psychiater where Vigilant was asking for not long ago on Wikipediocrazy advice. The doctor came in with a group of strong psychiatric nurses and with the help of te police officers they took all the patients with them to the ambulances what where waiting.
Well, said the judge to Statler and Lomax, the best thing you can do is to play there game till professional help is in, coffee gentleman? Better not to upset them, sometimes they get aggressive you know. It was good decision of the Dutch authorities to send him back to the States for therapy, he is now in good hands.

[Graaf Statler]

I suspect the will reveal very, very little, if anything, that we don't already know. That's the whole point of the way these bans work, it is intended to cover the Foundation's ass in exactly this sort of situation, I have no doubt it was the lawyers who put that together in the first place, so they're way ahead of the Abd here.

The whole problem is not that lawyers what have put that together in the first place, I am sure they did a good job, the problem is how WMF has used that tool with there James Alexander SanFanBans.
Because I think that lawyers didn't even have thought of the possibility to use it in such a stupid way. Because in this way it has changed in a by pass around section 230. And that is the legal problem now.

You're probably right of course but as Vigilant put it, it will be enjoyable to watch. I generally agree that Abd will get squashed but I hold out the hopes that this will be at least a partial defeat to the WMF. Call me spiteful if you want, but I would very much enjoy them getting a slap in the face.

Time will give us the answers. We will see how it turns out. And remember, even a top lawyer can't change water in wine, if WMF was wrong with that SanFanBans they where wrong, no lawyer in the world can change that.

[Graaf Statler]

Stare downs are complete useless, Somey. So do me a favour and stop this complete waisting of time and energy with your trollocrazy flame wars, your trollocrazy filled up with cult members. It simple doesn't help you because the only info you will get is general info, so stop this phishing! Thanks!

[Graaf Statler]

Ehh, I'm not so sure. It would be a smart move if their primary goal was to defend their "institution" and its reputation from real or imagined enemies, but in fact their primary goal is to maintain the flow of donation money. If they're perceived by the public as mean, nasty, vindictive, and unforgiving, it seems like that might run counter to their financial interests. (Also, let's not forget that Mr. Abd isn't a rich man, at least according to him.)

Mind you, I'm not saying they aren't already mean, nasty, vindictive, and unforgiving; it's just that since whatever meanness they have is so easily surpassed by their technical and managerial incompetence, it's easy not to notice.

Correct. And it shows us again how incredible stupid your "guest" are because it should be suicide for a organisation what calls himself a charity institution. And indeed complete useless because according to himself he owns nothing. And WMF should have still the same change to lose this law case because a countersue would change nothing in this law case, it would only be a lose of more donormoney what they never will see back.

Somey, you are yourself far from stupide. Why do you give complete lunatics like Beeblebrox, Ming, Vigilant, and name them this podium? It is complete clear WMF has made a fatal error with there Alexander SanFanBans. How foolish can a foundation been to give this powerful block tool in the hands of again a incompetent lunatic like Alexander. You know that, the guys here know that, WMF knows that, otherwise they had never hired a top lawyer, only the cult members still have hope. The only thing what happens now is these idiots are telling over and over the same complete nonsense.

What does it help? What does it change? What is still the purpose of your Trollocrazy? Why don't you just shut it down? Why should anyone want to keep it? A few cult members who are telling there complete bullshit and lies over and over in the hope anyone on this world still believes them? What is the purpose? Because no one outside the cult does anymore. And it is the same about that WMF blog, what can be the purpose of blogposts of a few lunatics who claim to form a legal team filled up with lies?

[CrowsNest]

On the one hand Vigilant accuses the Wikipedia community and its tin-pot Administrators of presiding over a system of governance characterised by a.......

lack of hard rules leading to lack of consistency leading to unprofessional favoritism and game playing to the detriment of disfavored persons.

.....leading to outcomes which are just so much......

ad hoc, kangaroo court, Lord of the Flies garbage

.....while on the other he thinks Abd is going to get his shit pushed back in by the WMF's super-lawyer?

This is mook-food. Rotten stinking mook-food.

[ericbarbour]

This is mook-food. Rotten stinking mook-food.

And the WMF office is full of young and evidently-inexperienced lawyers who think it smells like the finest chateaubriand.

They don't care. Every year the WMF sucks down millions in donations from the public (and Google and Amazon and Microsoft etc), and gives some of it to the young lawyers. So the young lawyers can make it "disappear". In return, we get docket clogging. Not much else that I can see.

[Graaf Statler]

The whole thing is nobody knows where he is talking about. Kum starts about the game theory..

Ignoring the analogy, I just want to point out that the description of game theory is very incorrect

.

The game theory is about the prisoners dilemma, two prisoners in prison who want to be as short as possible in prison and who have to take decisions what they going to tell, but who doesn't know what the other has told about the crime. Kum simple does't know what it is.

And the WMF office is full of young and evidently-inexperienced lawyers who think it smells like the finest chateaubriand.

The general trap of Wikipedia. It looks like a solide and professional organisation, you simple doesn't expect it is rotten from top to bottom when you come in. It is the same psychological effect as a program with a candid camera, nobody expect he is fooled. It looks like a challenge a WMF or a chapter job, but it is a nightmare.

I compare it often with the optical illusion what is on a man's mind, the optical illusion. You see or the young woman or the old man but never both. At the moment you understand what Wikipedia really is, your psychological point of view change. just like in the optical illusion, the candid camera. At ones your brains see all kind of things you didn't see before. It isn't the young beautiful woman, it is a nasty old man! It is like the surprise you can find in the slip of a travestiet.
And then you start to think how is it possible I didn't see that before? But, and that is the problem at that moment you are most times so deep in the system that you can't go back without hurting yourself. You have sink in the wikiswamp. So, you start to hire incompetent idiots and start to lie.

And in this way you get stuck in a spiderweb of lies, with other spiders who are also are making a web of lies. The ultimate Hotel California situation, a psychological pyramid scheme.
And you think you are safe behind that section 230, lawyers have checked it out. You are playing your role, your game.
And then, then one of the idiots you have hired and have given a impressive title to hide his incompetence start to make fatal mistakes, like Alexander did.

Alexander got that powerful block tool in his hands....... And was thinking, that is nice! And did what nobody ever had expect!. He started to use it in the same way corrupt wiki sysops does. But it was not a normal blocking tool! Because Wikipedia is one of the few platforms that can affect someone in real life. This tool can made them legally liable for their actions!
And that is going on.

And now we return to the Game theory. WMF desperate want to know what are the plans of both Lomax and Statler, because they understand dammed well what what is going on. And in there amateurism they start phishing. Phishing in all variations, using Bart Verstieck, using Wikipediocrazy, because that don't know what to do anymore. Because, just like for sure the lawyer of the Dutch chapter did after there legal treats, you can spell on it that lawyer of Jones Day has explained to them he can't change water in wine, like every good lawyer does. They simple can't.

And that is going on. And my answer is, and I am sure Lomax will say the same, don't try to unpack your presents before it is Christmas. Both of us, as far as I have seen are willing to give you except general legal information, what is really needed because you guys know nothing, to give you any detail! Nothing! Our lips are sealed.