Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

You can talk about anything related to Wikipedia criticism here.
User avatar
Guido den Broeder
Sucks
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:45 pm

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by Guido den Broeder » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:41 am

ericbarbour wrote:Also, FWIW, Google Maps actually has a marker for "Liberland, Serbia".

You can create such a marker yourself, which is what they did (it was mentioned on their FB at the time). All part of the fun.

It looks like a tree farm and no buildings are visible.

Part of Siga is privately owned by a logging company, which in turn is owned by the local government. Paraduin recognizes their private ownership and rights. In earlier times, the territory was also used for hunting, but that is no longer the case.

It is nearest the Croatian town of Zmajevac, which does have a Wikipedia article....to which Liberland was added recently....
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =841358648

To Liberland, it is important to get spammed as often as possible, so they can attract more 'citizens' that will pay the 10,000 euro. Normal micronations don't behave in this manner and prefer to remain largely unnoticed. Even the guy who is selling plots on the moon.

How many of Guido's sock accounts would I find in the history of Liberland?

None or all, the number is the same.

Graaf Statler wrote:Much is still not clear about ME.

More is known about ME than about similar diseases like MS and Parkinson, thanks to the outbreaks and the efforts of a few dedicated physicians. In general though, there is not enough attention for neurological diseases, nor for the patients. For instance, the Dutch Brain Council doesn't get any financial support. Ambulance and first-aid workers know everything about heart attacks but nothing about syncope.

User avatar
Graaf Statler
Side Troll
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by Graaf Statler » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:11 pm

More is known about ME than about similar diseases like MS and Parkinson, thanks to the outbreaks and the efforts of a few dedicated physicians. In general though, there is not enough attention for neurological diseases, nor for the patients. For instance, the Dutch Brain Council doesn't get any financial support.

100% true. Cancer and heart disorders gets much more attention and money. And also social, in that discussion in that time where I to refer was the trend everything what is not physical is affectation.

You were a policy maker, advocated basisinkomen, got ill and they just fucked you complete. With huge consequences for you as a person.
Because if they had given you what they simple had owned you in that time, a WAO benefit/insurance (You have payed for it, it is a kind of insurance.) we hadn't had this uneasy discussions now for years.

User avatar
Graaf Statler
Side Troll
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by Graaf Statler » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:19 pm

And for shitbirds who frame Guido he was not on the highway to become a professor please read this. I mean a real professor, not a fake prof like Drmies.
In 2003 was this article about the WAO Guido didn't get in the newspapers.. (WAO = Social insurance)

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achter ... gle.com%2F

But in that time there was a anti WOA political climate created by Pim Fortuyn who is murdered in in 2002, what had made his mouvement extreme populair and what was ruling in that time with CDA and VVD. And Fortuyn was always close to the CDA in several ways, the CDA what embraced the motto wie niet werkt zal niet eten. Brinkman was later a strong advocate of this vision. And Fortuyn, a man with many, many, complexes and with psychiatric problems himself, he was years in therapie advocated always very, very strong against the WAO in general and special what was not somatic.

And I think there was the problem. They wanted to learn the golden boy den Broeder a lesson. And they scewerd him double. Because WAO was 80% and for that 20% he had just could done his job part time and continuo his career and had kept his income And you shitheads fucked him complete on WP, so that was tree times.

But the zeigeist has changed and now several city's in Holland are experimenting with..... Guido's vision.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achter ... gle.com%2F

:mrgreen:

User avatar
Abd
Sucks Warrior
Posts: 749
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:22 pm
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by Abd » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:41 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:
All about Guido, nothing of value for others.

I complete disagree. Guido created a dream wiki for creators, the wikipedians choose to screw the place up, and that is it.
First of all, that was about the ME wiki and Guido's contributions there. And then about the "dream wiki," this would be Wikisage, presumably, where Guido has absolute control of who can edit there, he is the only Bureaucrat, the only Sage, the only Checkuser, the only sysop, the only Supervisor. The user rights log tells a story.
That, however is the English Wikisage. nl.wikisage? Guido is the only 'crat, checkuser and Supervisor, but there is another sysop, who is active. He has two "Concierges" who can block users, but only one is active.

Guido is entirely responsible for Wikisage and if it was "screwed up" by Wikipedians, he let them do it. He showed up in Wikiversity in 2010, and almost entirely concerned himself with central process, objecting to the way we did things -- which allowed complete academic freedom. He could have created resources on ME/CFS, for example, without any hindrance. Instead he simply fucked with process, showing the same arrogance that got him in trouble everywhere else. But he was not "in trouble" on Wikiversity, he was simply ignored.

He obviously never understood the strength of Wikiversity, what it was good for. To him, it was just more articles. In fact, it was a place to study and learn. I certainly used it that way. He just wanted to delete stuff. (But he did do something on nl.wikibooks).

User avatar
Graaf Statler
Side Troll
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by Graaf Statler » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:21 pm

Guido is entirely responsible for Wikisage and if it was "screwed up" by Wikipedians

That is your vision, and I have a other. He offered them a perfect base for a perfect wiki, the wikipedians made the choice to use it as a dump place and a troll farm and shitted it with bullshit.
Your vision Abd, your point of view, not ours. Don't try to determine what others should think, the Abd vision is not superior.
He showed up in Wikiversity in 2010, and almost entirely concerned himself with central process, objecting to the way we did things -- which allowed complete academic freedom.

I have not any reason not to believe it was just the same mess as all wiki projects. Complete academic freedom sounds tricky.
Again, your vision, your POV, the Abd vision is not leading.

User avatar
ericbarbour
Sucks Admin
Posts: 4547
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:56 am
Location: The ass-tral plane
Has thanked: 1099 times
Been thanked: 1797 times

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by ericbarbour » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:04 am

:roll:

User avatar
Graaf Statler
Side Troll
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by Graaf Statler » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:02 am

This is so weird.

Volkskant wrote:Een woordvoerder van het UWV onderkent dat het goed mogelijk is dat mensen met dezelfde klachten toch verschillend beoordeeld worden. Ze wijst erop dat de WAO geen zekering voor ziekte is, maar een verzekering voor het wegvallen van inkomsten.

'Het hebben van een aandoening is niet zonder meer een garantie voor een uitkering.'

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achter ... gle.com%2F

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

This lady, spokeswoman the UWV, the instancy behind the WAO would be a great wiki sysop. It is total crap what she stated

*.Een woordvoerder van het UWV onderkent dat het goed mogelijk is dat mensen met dezelfde klachten toch verschillend beoordeeld worden.
**Dan sta je als instantie er gekleurd op.

. Ze wijst erop dat de WAO geen zekering voor ziekte is, maar een verzekering voor het wegvallen van inkomsten.
**Wat het verschil is zal waarschijnlijk tot het einder der dagen onduidelijk blijven. Buiten het feit om dat ik geen idee het wat een zekering voor ziekte zelfs maar zou kunnen zijn, ik kan het hooguit raden.

*'Het hebben van een aandoening is niet zonder meer een garantie voor een uitkering.
**Mevrouw de voorlichter komt absoluut in aanmerking voor een leerstoel open deuren intrappen.

Ook Den Broeders ziektekostenverzekeraar erkent de ziekte. Ze betalen zijn medicijnen en thuiszorg

Godverdomme, duidelijker kan het niet dat hier met meerdere maten is gemeten. Thuiszorg. Daar lag de lat vele malen hoger voor dan voor de toenmalige WAO. Want dan is iemand pas echt ziek, dat geeft een verzekering echt niet zomaar. Of waarschijnlijk de gemeente in dit geval.
Ik heb mijn huiswerk gedaan en de boel geanalyseerd maar jullie duidelijk niet, stelletje klotenklappers bij elkaar wat jullie zijn! En met bronnen zoals je ziet.
En al in een heel vroeg stadium toen de naam Guido den Broeder steeds opdook op WP-Nl rond 2009 na het van Dillen en Elly debacle.

User avatar
Graaf Statler
Side Troll
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by Graaf Statler » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:30 am

En nu nog even het juridische verhaaltje voor jullie allemaal op een rijtje. Wij hebben een rechtssysteem gebaseerd op op het Napoleontische recht met als basisprincipe redelijk en billik.

Abd wrote:Den Broeder's claim that the government of the Netherlands "terrorized him" leads me to suspect everything he's written.

I have given the evidences and a explanation this claim of Guido is correct.

Abd wrote:ME/CFS is a CNS disorder. Is it a "mental illness"? The fringe claim, for a long time, was that it was a physical illness, den Broeder, I think it has been, calls it an "inflammation." Which it might well be. But there is no clean boundary between physical illness and mental illness. The brain, after all, is physical. But the brain also carries images, patterns, and these patterns interact with the physical.

I have given plenty of evidences Guido is serious ill. For sure Guido can give much more evidences.

quote wrote:PARADISE! What a concept! What a place to live! Except the sovereign territory of Paraduin is the residence of Prince Ogidius, sole monarch of the micronation of Paraduin. Plus a river island between Croatia and Serbia?:Micronations.wiki article

I have made clear Paraduin with the ruling Prince Ogidius is a kind of paintball game, fun, the product of a speelse geest. And, that is really funny part, his claim is correct and legitimate.

Abd wrote:Guido is entirely responsible for Wikisage and if it was "screwed up" by Wikipedians

In no way! Everyone is responsible for his own actions and it's plausible/very likely Guido is unable to control his wiki by himself because of his illness.
And:
Graaf Statler wrote:Een beheerder dient een goed rentmeester te zijn, dus de vlieger als de kat van huis is dansen de trollen gaat niet op bij een rechtbank, en zeker dus niet in dit geval.


And last but absolute not at least:

J. W. Ausma wrote:Rechters geloven niet in sprookjes maar luisteren wel naar een verhaal met een boodschap

And special this advice is something to keep in mind, dear wikipedians.

User avatar
Abd
Sucks Warrior
Posts: 749
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:22 pm
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by Abd » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:18 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:En nu nog even het juridische verhaaltje voor jullie allemaal op een rijtje. Wij hebben een rechtssysteem gebaseerd op op het Napoleontische recht met als basisprincipe redelijk en billik.

Abd wrote:Den Broeder's claim that the government of the Netherlands "terrorized him" leads me to suspect everything he's written.

I have given the evidences and a explanation this claim of Guido is correct.
"Terrorized" is very unlikely to be correct. Perhaps Graaf has given evidence somewhere, but surely it would be possible to link to it, so we could assess if it indicates "terrorized" or something else.
Abd wrote:ME/CFS is a CNS disorder. Is it a "mental illness"? The fringe claim, for a long time, was that it was a physical illness, den Broeder, I think it has been, calls it an "inflammation." Which it might well be. But there is no clean boundary between physical illness and mental illness. The brain, after all, is physical. But the brain also carries images, patterns, and these patterns interact with the physical.

I have given plenty of evidences Guido is serious ill. For sure Guido can give much more evidences.
Yet I have never questioned that he is 'seriously ill." People can die from disorders of the mind, one might call them "programming errors." Such conditions can also create physical conditions and symptoms, some of which can be objectively measured. This idea that there are two kinds of illness, "mental" and "physical," and that "mental illness" is perhaps some kind of moral defect, is pernicious. Further there can be a physical condition that can be improved by training, i.e., programming the mind. I encountered the skepticism with my daughter. When I mentioned that she needed to be carried into the bathroom to use it (she was able to use it privately, slowly and carefully), one nurse said, "If someone would carry me around, I'd get sick too!" She was the nurse of the most horrible orthopedist we saw. A battle-axe of a woman that I kept referring to as "he" because of, well, habits. And the attitude was like too many male doctors. Utterly unsympathetic, total focus on form and "physical ailment," as if the mind and body can be cleanly separated, which will lead anyone astray with a neurological disorder like CRPS.

So I saw this close up. She recommended physical therapy, prescribing it, and I took the opportunity to find the best in the region, Shriner's Hospital for Children. It was about 40 minutes drive away, but well worth it, it would have been worth driving hours. And they were mystified at first (that still puzzles me a bit, because the symptoms were really obvious!)

But when physical therapy was accomplishing nothing, I told them and they immediately arranged for a consult with the person I call the Grand Old Man of Pediatric Orthopedics in Western Massachusetts. Later, when I talked with other physicians, they agreed. He was the best. And he spent a lot of time with her, talking with her, observing her carefully, while touching her knee and obviously hurting her. But she tolerated it, because he generated trust by his manner. And then he said, "I know what is happening with you." Nobody had said that before.

He said the magic words, and I looked it up. Yes. Unmistakable. And he said, "You are going to be fine. Here, meet Maureen, she's worked with this." And Maureen knew exactly what she was doing and did it, and daughter let her, even though it hurt like hell, obviously so. I understand how and why it worked. Was there a physical cause? Yes, they thought there was an original trauma, very painful, but gone fairly quickly. Whereas the girl's mother thought she was faking, dramatic, etc. That attitude and everything else that went with it explains why the girl came to live with me. And why I was successful with her. My attitude was that she never lied, though sometimes her interpretations were a bit weird. I trusted her and gave her full control over her life. At 12. Most involved claimed she was too young, but she was actually demanding it, and I had raised five teenagers before her, I knew what was happening.

As it relates to ME/CFS, there are probably "physical" and "mental" components, if we are going to divide life up like that. And all this will vary with the person. The issues with support for those disabled, and the definition of disability, are political issues, unfortunately. From my point of view, someone who does not find joy in work is disabled, somehow! That is not normal! We attempt to make all this a moral issue, which distracts us from reality.

quote wrote:PARADISE! What a concept! What a place to live! Except the sovereign territory of Paraduin is the residence of Prince Ogidius, sole monarch of the micronation of Paraduin. Plus a river island between Croatia and Serbia?:Micronations.wiki article

I have made clear Paraduin with the ruling Prince Ogidius is a kind of paintball game, fun, the product of a speelse geest. And, that is really funny part, his claim is correct and legitimate.

Sure, a practical joke, but then you mix that with "correct and legitimate," which is, from what we have seen, preposterous. The claims of Liberland appear to have more basis, but that's not saying much. Liberland has raised money and has real people active in or near the scene. Guide calls it fraud, but the real possibility for establishing sovereignty for Liberland would probably involve money (or equivalent power). If it's true that Croatia doesn't want the land, then they ought to rather easily settle for compensation for surrendering all claims. It is not an issue of "selling" land that they don't own. It is abandoning a claim to allow another. What would Croatia want? What would be their conditions? Trying to force a claim on them is very likely to fail. They have an army and they have police. Graaf's claim appears to be that he made a claim, without any physical basis. Like someone claiming part of the Moon, with no power to exercise any kind of sovereignty there.

And, yes, a practical joke but Guido did not admit that on Wikipedia and made spurious arguments, about articles. They don't like that. I had a friend who wrote a joke article. He had a tendency to do things like that. The article was preposterous on the face. And he lied, to avoid admitting the truth (though he did admit it fairly quickly). It is simply no wonder that he was banned, even if the article was actually harmless. The Wikipedians, hoax articles are not harmless, they waste resources, not that the project itself isn't practically designed, as it were, to profligately waste resources dealing with unnecessary disputes that any sane organization would handle in minutes, or hours at the most.

Abd wrote:Guido is entirely responsible for Wikisage and if it was "screwed up" by Wikipedians

In no way! Everyone is responsible for his own actions and it's plausible/very likely Guido is unable to control his wiki by himself because of his illness.[/quote]It becomes a cracker-jack excuse. The issue would be choosing partners to trust. He seems to have some difficulty with that. The idea that the responsible person must personally do everything is a naive concept of responsibility. He is responsible for choices he makes, and choices he doesn't make. We are responsible for what we create in life, and, as well, what we don't create. Responsible does not mean "to blame." It means that we have power, and Guido had and has power. The issue is how he uses or does not use it.

And:
Graaf Statler wrote:Een beheerder dient een goed rentmeester te zijn, dus de vlieger als de kat van huis is dansen de trollen gaat niet op bij een rechtbank, en zeker dus niet in dit geval.
A manager "must be" a good steward. What does "must" mean? There are consequences from our choices. Taking a stand that we are responsible for them is not "truth,"b because it is an interpretation or judgment, not fact. However, it is an empowering stand, that is known to generate, with high success, results worth living for. Blaming others or "circumstances" does what? It defines us as being victims, by definition without power, doomed to endless complaint to get others to fix our problems. Where and when did we learn to do that? That is a question that can be answered, if one asks it and looks for answers.

And last but absolute not at least:
J. W. Ausma wrote:Rechters geloven niet in sprookjes maar luisteren wel naar een verhaal met een boodschap

And special this advice is something to keep in mind, dear wikipedians.
Yes. A translation:
Judges do not believe in fairy tales but do listen to a story with a message.

Yes. So the skill of a lawyer is presenting that story, engaging the jury, in the U.S. Judges play a different role here. Can I pull that off? I don't know, but I do know that I have skill and training in personal presence and presentation. So maybe. Can I do it in writing? With a sympathetic audience, yes. Not with a bunch of trolls looking to figure out what is wrong. Or, I'll put it this way: that is a more complex problem.

User avatar
Graaf Statler
Side Troll
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

Post by Graaf Statler » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:23 pm

And for you the same warning as for Tim, Abd.

The best things are for free, Abd. And so is this advice. Don't fuck with Statler, because that was what Bart Legal tried here and with one mail to Eric he was........ out.

This is a place for serious discussion and Wiki criticism, and very much is here allowed.
But two thing not what Tim, Bart did and you do here. Shitting the place with gaslighting and trolling. And for the rest, off topic, no problem. Post whatever you want in the off topic section. Use ruff language, make sometimnes fun! You are free to do so!

But respect the other guests Abd. Don't do what Bart Legal did. And you, don't try to fuck with me because I guarantee you are out! Without any parol and for ever, Abd.

In short, respect Guido.

Best regards, your fake side admin. :mrgreen:

Post Reply