The Neotarf Files

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Anyone
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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by Anyone » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:55 pm

Breaking News

I've just deleted my a/c on Discord. This was the most socially spastic garbage I've come across in years. It's literally loser fucking central.

The email from Discord reads:

We have received a (dare we say, terrifying) request to permanently delete your account. Your account has been deactivated and will be permanently deleted after 14 days.

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JuiceBeetle
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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by JuiceBeetle » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:28 pm

I'm sorry this turned out like this. You joining was quite promising a few weeks ago. Sadly, things turned to the worse soon enough.

I wonder, why don't you tell the reason for your disappointment?
That you were originally trusted with moderator privileges, but these privileges were removed a few days ago, after repeated failed attempts to ask you to tone down your misogynist narrative, insults to other users, manipulative arguments, and blatant shilling of TDA?

You haven't posted since then, and did not say good bye, even. Well, good bye, then.

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Kumioko
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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by Kumioko » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:00 pm

Anyone wrote:Breaking News

I've just deleted my a/c on Discord. This was the most socially spastic garbage I've come across in years. It's literally loser fucking central.

The email from Discord reads:

We have received a (dare we say, terrifying) request to permanently delete your account. Your account has been deactivated and will be permanently deleted after 14 days.

For what it's worth I haven't really commented much there tge last few days either. I just let them go and do their thing. It'll wind down.
#BbbGate

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Abd
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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by Abd » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:05 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:You mean you and Abd didn't get the support you both wanted so desperate for Abd his "community building" there?
Like I said already on Discord, I don't think TDA is exacta the right person to support a trolling wikipedia trollmod and communety builder Abd as a blocked user, Juicy.
There, as here, Graaf is clueless about what is actually happening, what I want, and whether or not I'm getting it. Plans are on-track. Those who want to participate will, those who don't won't, and how would it be any different? I have Graaf on Ignore there ("blocked"), but when I peek, I see him begging me to answer questions that I already answered, explicitly and completely. Meanwhile, he tells me I'm lying, so what I wonder is why someone would beg a "liar" to answer? I do have an answer to that. It's trolling. He does not actually want an authentic answer.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by Graaf Statler » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:55 pm

Wait a moment!

Because I consider Abd's tree house Discord community with Abd as spokesman as complete bullshit am I a troll? :roll:

So, when I say his "community" only exits in Abd's his fantasy it is trolling :?:

Well, fine Abd, I am a troll. :mrgreen:

Is it now OK for you?

Complete diot!

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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by Graaf Statler » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:06 pm

Abd wrote:Meanwhile, he tells me I'm lying, so what I wonder is why someone would beg a "liar" to answer? I do have an answer to that. It's trolling. He does not actually want an authentic answer

I consider this as the mother of all tree house posings ever, Abd!

Juicy is/was trolling himself here in heaven and I said he was in three house village.

What he was of course, and this is what the tree house oracle Abd has to tell us:

You say (Me) I am a liar, what you of course are with denying Juicy is a troll, so my (Abd's) answer has no value.

No of course are the answers and opinions of two trolls and liars complete uninteresting BECAUSE they are trolls and liars, Abd.

And I still don't get why I should stay in liars and trolls discord according to the princess as a second rate participant who gets constant blocked if he simple tells the true.

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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by Graaf Statler » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:20 pm

And what makes no for two mounts the situation so dramatical is the constant denying Juicy is a wiki troll mod and a lier. Just like a dog is a dog and a cat is a cat. Some things are simple not non-negotiable Abd, no one in this world will say a dog is a cat. We are simple speaking about a wiki troll.

Non-negotiable Abd. Because he trolls and lies, your own definition of a troll, you remember?

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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by Abd » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:00 pm

Graaf may have difficulty understanding this, or may believe that he understands it when he doesn't. So I recommend that he find someone he trusts to explain this to him, because that is the way beyond the traps of our own identity.

Abd wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote:You mean you and Abd didn't get the support you both wanted so desperate for Abd his "community building" there?
Like I said already on Discord, I don't think TDA is exacta the right person to support a trolling wikipedia trollmod and communety builder Abd as a blocked user, Juicy.
There, as here, Graaf is clueless about what is actually happening, what I want, and whether or not I'm getting it. Plans are on-track. Those who want to participate will, those who don't won't, and how would it be any different? I have Graaf on Ignore there ("blocked"), but when I peek, I see him begging me to answer questions that I already answered, explicitly and completely. Meanwhile, he tells me I'm lying, so what I wonder is why someone would beg a "liar" to answer? I do have an answer to that. It's trolling. He does not actually want an authentic answer.

I see three more responses from Graaf here, highly repetitive, reactive, and essentially reality-free. I will unblock Graaf so he can answer, but if responses continue on pattern, I'll block again. Graaf pays no attention to notices that he has been blocked, he keeps on trolling and demanding as if he's communicating with me. He did the same on the Discord server.

To any user I have blocked: if you believe there is value in communication with me, ask someone not blocked to quote it or pass it on. I have blocked very, very few people, I only do it when it has become clear that something is going on other than communication, and want to remove the temptation to argue when it has become clear it's useless, that something much more than mere words is needed for utility. Now, those comments from Graaf:
Graaf Statler wrote:Wait a moment!

Because I consider Abd's tree house Discord community with Abd as spokesman as complete bullshit am I a troll? :roll:

So, when I say his "community" only exits in Abd's his fantasy it is trolling :?:

Well, fine Abd, I am a troll. :mrgreen:

Is it now OK for you?

Complete diot!

Remember, I have Graaf blocked here. I didn't see this comment until I came here because of activity on the Discord. What Graaf represents and ridicules is his own fantasy. In considering the issue of "troll" he never looks at the definition, what is trolling and what is not? When a person says something to another with the purpose of angering them, of creating a reaction, it is ordinarily simple trolling. But there is also unintentional trolling, where the troll believes that he (this is almost always male) is simply speaking the "truth." I.e., "you are stupid fucking asshole and whatever you say is only your fantasy and complete bullshit." Now, is that "truth"? Only in an incredibly naive ontology. These are all judgments and reactions, not reality qua reality. Statements like that, to be understood sanely, will be parsed as reactions, not as fact.

"I think you're an idiot," could be a fact, but it would be a fact about me, not about you.

If we make a statement that will predictably generate reaction, we become responsible for the reaction as if we intended it. Those who don't understand that will constantly find themselves in conflict, in my experience. That is, from this point of view, the meaning of a statement is not what we intend, but the effect it causes.

There is a shred of fact behind Graaf's statement, in that I do sometimes speak for communities. But before that could be understood, we need a definition of "community" and what is signified by speaking for it, because by Graaf's apparent meanings, there is no possibility of such, unless there is a clear governing structure and it has -- or has not -- authorized representation. Yet people do routinely speak for informal communities, and the word "we" was invented for that. Is it meaningless? In Graaf's ontology, apparently so.

Graaf Statler wrote:
Abd wrote:Meanwhile, he tells me I'm lying, so what I wonder is why someone would beg a "liar" to answer? I do have an answer to that. It's trolling. He does not actually want an authentic answer

I consider this as the mother of all tree house posings ever, Abd!

[rambling that makes little sense to me read, but omitted]

And I still don't get why I should stay in liars and trolls discord according to the princess as a second rate participant who gets constant blocked if he simple tells the true.

Graaf claims that he is "constant blocked" if he "simple tells the true." He's never made it clear what "true" is, but what he "tells" is, over and over, how others are liars and trolls and blah, blah. He was not "constant blocked." I blocked him personally, as to what I see, that is what "blocked" means on a Discord server. It is my choice whether or not to read the flow of posts from a user. If I hold Graaf responsible for the ordinary meanings of what he is saying, he's lying here. But Graaf appears massively confused, and may believe what he writes. He thinks what he is saying, so in a sense he is being "authentic." "Second rate participate" is his interpretation. In fact, Graaf was a Mod, same as me, and, in fact, he used it to deny my warnings about what was coming if he continued. Until this morning.

What actually happened today: Graaf had been flooding the Vetting channel with many comments, mostly attacking JuiceBeetle. Vetting is the most open channel, it can be read by any Discord user who shows up and has not been explicitly banned. We have seen before that when there were flame wars in Vetting, newecomers would show up, see the argument, and promptly leave. Most sane people don't want to see that kind of crap. I've redacted some. Names changed to the Sucks name. Times are GMT-4 unless otherwise stated. And it doesn't matter if it or parts of it are "true." It simply is not the place for it, and that's what I'd written, here, and what ensued. (Vetting is very much not a private channel.)

[quote]4:55 PM]Abd:@[JuiceBeetle] This is not really the issue. The issue is what is presented to noobs, coming to Vetting to join the server, who may take one look and decide "not for me," or, if they love flame wars, may really want in so they can fire up their own blowtorch. Is that what we want? I asked about deletion. The only response was from [redacted] who basically advised ignoring them, but that was personal advice, not a proposed collective decision. My concern is not personal. By the way, @[JuiceBeetle] the goal of a troll is precisely to annoy his target. It is not to communicate, it is to accuse and defame and blame.
[Yesterday, 4:55 PM][JuiceBeetle]:True. I'm just getting annoyed :smile:
[5:07 PM][JuiceBeetle]:Newcomers only see this trolling after they joined (no message history), but that can still be a wtf experience. I still think, as I said earlier that Statler should not be in the mod group, so he can't troll here.
[5:15 PM][Graaf Statler]:Again:
[5:16 PM][Graaf Statler]:Abd wrote: "And that's trolling. Policy: trolls lie or misrepresent"
I don't lie or misinterpretent, I tell the true, and THAT hurts you both.
But Aron does.... and because of that HE is the troll, and not I, Abd, and the true doesn't change with the bla bla of you and Aron, Abd.
[5:17 PM][Graaf Statler]:"Newcomers only see this trolling after they joined (no message history)"
[5:18 PM][Graaf Statler]:No [JuiceBeetle], newcomers see the plain true about you. That you are a troll, and special WHY you are.[quote]

Only those with a higher privilege level than a moderator can remove the Mod role. As has happened before in very similar circumstances, this morning at 11:28 GMT, an administrator saw the conversation above and removed the Mod role and assigned a special role to Graaf, as I recall it was create specially for him some time ago. It's restrictive, and that is exactly what I would expect from a responsible administrator. Graaf left the server at 13:43 GMT. I'm not sure if he can access Vetting. He did show up at 15:52 GMT, but no message was left.

Many times, Graaf left the server in a huff. And then would come back, and was returned, even returned to Mod. It wasn't working.

And I still don't get why I should stay in liars and trolls discord.

Many times I suggested Graaf to stay away from Wikipedia-related discussions. It is common for Graaf to think he's being told what he should do when nothing was suggested, a situation was merely described, without "should." Do this, it will have this effect, do that, it will have a different effect, and I'm not God.

This kind of interpretation is the behavior of someone who is highly reactive. I've seen it many times, in many contexts. It can be very difficult to communicate with such a person, because they are relating, not to the speaker, but to a complex story in their own constructed world. The impulse to participate in that server, and on this blog, is not coming from others, it's coming from Graaf. Indeed, "why should I say in liars and trolls discord" is a very real question, and one that I asked him. But he ignored it to just rant his standard rant. That is, if he believes that a community is a bunch of liars and trolls, why does he hang out there?

there was one more post, but I find nothing in it causing response to arise.

However, one aspect of this is not finished. "Community" is something created by declaration. There are people in locations on the Earth, but that does not make them a "community" in the sense I use it. There are people engaged in some project, and they become a "community of interest." On Wikipedia, in theory, the legal authority is with the site owner (the WMF), but operational authority has been assigned to "the community," and one of the problems is how fuzzy that concept is. Wikipedia ignored centuries of precedent in the formation of voluntary associations, and we see the results.

There is long history in the formation of associations, including informal ones, and it begins with someone declaring it, and someone else joining it that, which begins the process. Essentially a community exists because we say so. And "we" means "me and anyone who joins me in this." If it's only me, well, it exists in my world but not in anyone else's world --yet--, but it still exists as much as any declaration with actions being taken to create it.

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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by Graaf Statler » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:12 pm

Abd wrote:Graaf claims that he is "constant blocked" if he "simple tells the true." He's never made it clear what "true" is Bla bla bla bliie blie and so on.

Abd, even a child could see Juicy was trolling himself in heaven here.
Did you came all the way down from you tree house to dump this piece of total rubbish here Abd? On your age? :roll:

Succes with climbing back to your high Discord tree house and don't fall out of that tree, Abd. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Neotarf Files

Post by Abd » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:21 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:
Abd wrote:Graaf claims that he is "constant blocked" if he "simple tells the true." He's never made it clear what "true" is,Bla bla bla and so on.

Abd, even a child could see Juicy was trolling himself in heaven here.
This is not about Juicy, at all, it's about you and your behavior on the Discord and here, but you blame it all on others. You were not demodded because anyone complained about you. You were demodded because an admin looked at your comments in that discussion and saw the issue and acted on it. You were not blocked for telling the truth, but it would be fair to say that you were ejected from the premises by security for making a huge fuss, expressing "strong opinions" in an inappropriate place.
Did you came all the way down from you tree house on your age to dump this piece of total rubish here? :roll:
Trolls dismiss fact as "rubbish" and don't examine the facts, they just assert "rubbish," "bullshit," "lies," it's the MO of a troll. Even if he believes he is "sincere."

Succes with climing back to your high Discord tree house and don't fall out of that tree. :mrgreen:
Poor you.
]I'm not climbing a tree, I'm sitting in my apartment, nice and warm. I'm not living in Graaf's fantasy, and he is totally free to disregard and not read what he calls my "rubbish." But he is also responsible for what he does and doesn't do. I couldn't change that if I wanted to, and I don't. We create our world with the language we use. (Our "world," not reality, which creates us). It may be bullshit but it's more usefully called "fertilizer."

By the way, Graaf back on block here, opportunity discarded. His choice, and mine. I unblocked on Discord so I can see his comments in Vetting if he is allowed to comment there. He might also be able to PM me there, I don't know what his role does.

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