Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

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Flip Flopped
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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by Flip Flopped » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:36 pm

ericbarbour wrote:If you need more proof, look at the major Wikimedia mailing lists.

The original wikipedia-l list (started in January 2001) died out around 2007. Most of the talk appeared on WikiEN-l.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/

WikiEN-l was pretty busy too, until 2013 when it died.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/

Wikimedia-l is still pretty busy, albeit there's a lot of talk about fundraising. Presumably the insiders are mostly interested in getting a paying job with the WMF rather than with actual operations.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/

They run a LOT of mailing list things--most of which are dead or nearly dead. The REAL business is discussed on private IRC channels.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Overview
Yes, critics really need to monitor the mailing lists to see what's going on. I didn't know about the history of the different lists.

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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by Graaf Statler » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:34 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote:
ericbarbour wrote:The last Wikimedia Nederland conference was in 2013.

In one thing you are wrong. That Wikimedia Conferentie Nederland is every year, because that is with the new years reception one of the high light of the year!

Well, they aren't running the usual portal for the later ones. Incompetence, forgetfulness, whatever.


How cares! La Vie is a nice place, good food, cold drinks, and that speakers are some idiot from the boondogle Wikipedia-NL who are telling about there briljant "projects". And at 17.00 it ends up with the borrel. It means the afterparty starts. Any way, it's all nonsens. No serieus speakers, nothing.

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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by Graaf Statler » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:55 pm

Lol. (I give one version, but to see how this soap ends, see newer versions, google translate.)

https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... d=49617425

What is going one. Effeietsanders akka Lodewijk Gelauff' has a fight with RJB, a formal Wikimedia-NL member and ex sysop. Gerlauf is mister Wikimedia-NL himself, and RJB is telling him the true. Gerlauff is a compleet idiot, who does't understand a clou of writing a encyclopedia. That is normal for Wikimedia members and very true.

But what I like, is Gelauf gets assistant from a other autistic guy, Rodejong. And how does he want to impress the world? By his article PNEA! But, if you look in the history of that impressive article, you found out it is a translation of the English article, from WP-EN. (Gemaakt door het vertalen (translate)van de pagina "Psychogenic non-epileptic seizures" - Met dank aan De Wikischim en ErikvanB voor de red.) So, he didn't write anything, he translated it with assistent of troll Schimske But, RJB his work is also not correct. He used text fragments. So, not one of the persons in this soap is able to write one single article. And this is Wikipedia-NL.

I am wondering how it ends up. I think Lodewijk wins. He has the most (autist) friends. But I think they must make Wikipedia-NL pay-wiki. So, you have to pay for your popcorn by this troll fights. Because of course this is a troll fight what you can watch for free. Old Wikimedia fiends who became enemies. Who are fighting.

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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by Graaf Statler » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:03 pm

Robot, and it is about New request, RJB, not about the different versions.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... t=&act=url

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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by Qwerty » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:41 am

The Dutch are even more tidy-minded than the Germans and without any of the post-Nazi self-loathing. The wonder is WP ever got established there at all. On the hand, Van Gogh...

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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:19 am

Qwerty wrote:The Dutch are even more tidy-minded than the Germans and without any of the post-Nazi self-loathing. The wonder is WP ever got established there at all. On the hand, Van Gogh...


Holland is not a county with much nazi sympathie, and holland was occupied in WW 2. And I don't know if you are talking about Wilders, I would not call him a nazi. He is anti- islam, but to call that nazism....

But the Dutch Wikipedia is the perfect fascist system! For instance if you look to the users page of mister Gelauff. In juli/augustus 2017 ben ik (eenmalig) in opdracht van Wikimedia Nederland bezig met het (off-wiki) samenstellen van een handleiding voor beginners Wikimedia -NL hired mister Gelauff to write a manuaal for new users. Mister Gerlauf who never wrote one single article, because he can't. And that same mister Gerlauf is on his way to the states. This is rediciles! The most lousy user you can imagine gets the paid jobs!

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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by ericbarbour » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:39 am

Flip Flopped wrote:Yes, critics really need to monitor the mailing lists to see what's going on. I didn't know about the history of the different lists.

Anyone serious about learning why WP is dysfunctional and full of nuts only has to look thru the archives of wikipedia-l and wikien-l to find a cornucopia or examples. There has been a few cases of messages being removed from the archives because they made one of the Jimbo-suckers look really bad--but the great majority of it is still intact. I suspect they had become so argumentative by 2007 that they couldn't get someone to censor the archives after the fact. They learned their lesson, as I say--now it's done in private email or IRC. And if they even THINK someone is monitoring their open IRC channels, they will go to great lengths to kick the unwanted one out and keep it that way. Ask Badmachine about that!

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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:33 am

In a fight in the kingdom of Wikipedia between a arbcom member and a few sysops I learned there are also secret IRC canals. It was funny, that sysops didn't know that arbcom member still had access to that secret channel, said thinks about him. Later there was a enormous fight on wikipedia, and in the middel of that fight they all forgot they were on the public Wikipedia! And they stared in public to tell about that secret IRC channel. But they are so unbelievable stupid, on the talk page of that idiot James Alexander posted Oscar van Dillen a question if Alexander had read his email! That foolish Alexander who sended me the copy past mail I had a SanFanBan.

So, you are saying, that article of Oscar van Dillen is pimped, what it is he is just a music teacher, and he send a email to his friend and I got the SanFanBan!
They are so stupid, you don't need to have a look in there secret channels etc, looking in the history is enough. Copy-paste Ymnes was my favorite user, he alway told the complet troll plan on Wikipedia, and finished, what are we going to do now.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebruiker:Ymnes

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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by Flip Flopped » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:11 am

Graaf Statler wrote:In a fight in the kingdom of Wikipedia between a arbcom member and a few sysops I learned there are also secret IRC canals. It was funny, that sysops didn't know that arbcom member still had access to that secret channel, said thinks about him. Later there was a enormous fight on wikipedia, and in the middel of that fight they all forgot they were on the public Wikipedia! And they stared in public to tell about that secret IRC channel. But they are so unbelievable stupid, on the talk page of that idiot James Alexander posted Oscar van Dillen a question if Alexander had read his email! That foolish Alexander who sended me the copy past mail I had a SanFanBan.

So, you are saying, that article of Oscar van Dillen is pimped, what it is he is just a music teacher, and he send a email to his friend and I got the SanFanBan!
They are so stupid, you don't need to have a look in there secret channels etc, looking in the history is enough. Copy-paste Ymnes was my favorite user, he alway told the complet troll plan on Wikipedia, and finished, what are we going to do now.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebruiker:Ymnes
Good point. The "secret" communication channels Wikipedians use don't stay secret. When that information comes out they act like they're being attacked just because someone mentions it.

Mutineer knows quite a bit about IRC channels as does Kumioko. Of course Barbour already mentioned that Badmachine is familiar with how paranoid Wikipedians are about their IRC channels.

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Re: Yes, it's true: Dutch-language Wikipedia is dying....

Post by badmachine » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:39 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Flip Flopped wrote:Yes, critics really need to monitor the mailing lists to see what's going on. I didn't know about the history of the different lists.

Anyone serious about learning why WP is dysfunctional and full of nuts only has to look thru the archives of wikipedia-l and wikien-l to find a cornucopia or examples. There has been a few cases of messages being removed from the archives because they made one of the Jimbo-suckers look really bad--but the great majority of it is still intact. I suspect they had become so argumentative by 2007 that they couldn't get someone to censor the archives after the fact. They learned their lesson, as I say--now it's done in private email or IRC. And if they even THINK someone is monitoring their open IRC channels, they will go to great lengths to kick the unwanted one out and keep it that way. Ask Badmachine about that!


Sorry to necropost. Their attitude about log dumping is evident in this notice sent to me by WMF Legal:

Stephen LaPorte wrote:Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 20:09:06 -0700
Subject: Use of Wikipedia trademarks on wikipedialogs.com
From: TM Enforcement
To: [REDACTED] @dildomail.com

To Shawn McNamara, the domain owner of Wikipedialogs,

We at the Wikimedia Foundation recently noticed that your website uses the
word mark, Wikipedia, in its URL. We’re delighted that you like the
Wikimedia projects as much as we do! However, it’s our duty here at the
Foundation to manage all trademarks of the Wikimedia projects in order to
protect the work and reputation of our community members. The word mark,
Wikipedia, happens to be one of the trademarks under our guardianship.

The Wikimedia Foundation and the community have worked hard to gain
worldwide recognition as the source of the largest collaborative
encyclopedia on the internet. As you know, volunteers put in countless
hours of effort to make Wikipedia what it is. Projects’ marks symbolize the
reputation and goodwill created by the efforts of our Foundation and
community more broadly. Because your site uses one of these marks, it could
easily confuse third-party viewers. As you can imagine, we come across
situations like this quite frequently. However, if we allow uses that could
be potentially confuse other viewers, we risk chipping away at the link
between our word mark and the work of the Wikimedia community.

We love your enthusiasm for the Wikipedia projects and your desire to get
involved in their development. But, due to the concerns mentioned above, we
must respectfully ask that you refrain from using our word mark to
cultivate an apparent relationship between our project and your site in the
absence of such official partnership. Please get back to us within 14 days
and let us know that you received this message by responding or emailing us
at tm_enforcement@wikimedia.org. If you have any questions or concerns
about what usages of the trademarks are acceptable, please contact us here
or by email.

Sincerely,


Stephen LaPorte
Legal Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation
149 New Montgomery Street, 3rd Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
slaporte@wikimedia.org
415.839.6885 ext. 6793 (Office)
415.882.0495 (Fax)

NOTICE: This email message and all attachments transmitted with it are
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