A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

You can talk about anything related to Wikipedia criticism here.
User avatar
Nemo
Sucks Noob
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by Nemo » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:53 am

Hello. I'm currently in the process of working on a Wikipedia fork with a different vision. The work is still in progress, but I will attempt to explain it's current design principles:

1. Minimalism - The Wiki intends to have somewhere between 3,000-40,000 articles for practical reasons, with an emphasis on quality over quantity (I believe that 6 million + articles are virtually impossible to manage, particularly on sensitive topics such as BLPs).

Currently, the Wiki will use Encyclopedia Britannica as a reference for articles and subjects to include (it does not intent to solely include articles which are on Encyclopedia Britannica, but this is a good reference point for starters.)

2. Management - Wikipedia's "sacred cow" is allegedly community consensus; This Wiki's vision is different; it will have a core set of values and principles which are not up to "consensus" to decide, with staff playing an active hand in guiding the project; constructive feedback and discussion is welcome, but ultimately the staff will have the final say.

3. Adminstration promotion - Promotion to administration will be determined by staff, not by consensus (though feedback is welcome) - "edit count" will be irrelevant to promotion, staff will be looking instead for high-quality content edits and good conflict resolution in discussion.

(Intentionally racking up lots of minor, janitorial edits which can be better automated on-site by bots, as though one was "leveling up" in an MMORPG, will be viewed as a negative rather than a positive; 100 quality edits will be preferred to 100,000 worthless or trivial ones).

4.a Civility and conduct This Wiki simply won't trust users who can't communicate or interact in the manner of a mature adult to "self-regulate" without the guidance of a comparatively enlightened hand; we will attempt to treat users as how they act; those who behave like immature children will be treated as such, regardless of whether or not they are "legally" an adult, or imagine themselves to be one.

A method of simply weeding out such problematic users, irrespective of any specific policy violations will be in place (this includes users who act in the manner of a "vexatious" litigant; such as those who intentionally or insincerely try to use policies or notions of "civility" as a "weapon" to "win" debates, or as a socially awkward person's substitute for healthy communication and conflict resolution).

4.b Talk pages and discussion - Generally speaking, users will not be allowed to remove others' comments on article talk pages or user's talk pages other than their own, for spurious reasons (users are welcome to report talk page content to administration, but generally speaking content will not be removed nor will users be blocked for talk page discussion unless it constitutes blatant spam, threats, etc).

An attempt to centralize discussion will also be made, rather than having "talk page" discussions run amok.


5. Editing privileges:

By default, all revisions will be flagged and edits will not immediately appear on the website; users will be encouraged to discuss major edits and changes rather than simply "make edits" arbitrarily and then revert each other; trusted users with a registered account will be given full editing privileges.

(Whether or not to require account creation and/or an email address for registration is something which is still in debate).

.a Censorship

Wikipedia claims to not be censored. This Wiki is proudly censored in regards to explicit content (e.x. sexual, violent, excretory) which is not deemed to have any legitimate historical or artistic significance (The Wiki's standards will be decidedly higher than Wikipedia's).

The Wiki will strive for a balance between obscenity and hyper-puritanism (e.x. a work of art such as a Renaissance painting like the Birth of Venus) will not be automatically be considered "obscene" simply for depicting nudity.

(The Wiki will use US and UK Common Law definitions of obscenity as a reference)

To prevent potential anonymous uploading of pornography or obscene content (as well as copyright violations), image uploading will be restricted to administrators and possibly trusted users (by default, a user will have to email an image to adminisration as an attachment).

(For the record, this Wiki doesn't care if you're offended over others being offended... ;) )

6.b Prohibited content or views:

The Wiki will simply take an official stance against certain views and content rather than create the potential for endless, unproductive arguments, discussions, accusations of "bias", and so forth.

For starters:

*Scientific racism, sexism, or assertions of "superiority" of individuals or groups on the basis of physical traits

*Advocacy of violence, force, aggression as the only or preferred method of resolving conflicts

*Advocacy of Inappropriate adult-child relations or depictions of said things (this includes art and animation, such as "anime" or "cartoon" pornography regardless of legality, or whether or not it depicts a "real" person or sexual act).

(Articles on child sexual abuse within the context of criminal law are allowed; articles on "pedophilia" or individuals who are known for identifying as "pedophiles" or promoting inappropriate adult-child relations; e.x. Nathan Larson; are not; individuals who identify as pedophiles on-or-off Wiki will be banned, and notified to local, state, or national authorities where applicable

*Advocacy of incestuous relationships (parent-child, sibling-sibling, uncle/niece-aunt/nephew, grandparent-grandchild, first cousin) regardless of whether legal or consensual

*Advocacy of human-animal relationships regardless of legality

*Advocacy of sexual acts involving feces or urine regardless of legality

*Advocacy of sexual acts involving human or animal corpses regardless of legality

*Advocacy of physically-forced sexual acts (such as defined by Common law) or sexual acts with a party who isn't able to legally consent (e.x. a person legally deemed mentally incompetent)

*Advocacy of primarily sexually or adult-oriented business or industries regardless of legality

*Miscellaneous sexual libertinism:

*Advocacy of polygamy or polyamory regardless of whether legal or consensual (this includes "swinging", "group sex", etc)

*Advocacy of sexual "fetishes" or preferences as a "substitute" or "alternative" for a mature, monogamous, adult relationship involving intimacy and sexual intercourse (this includes casual sex, pornography, sex toys, or masturbation; advocacy of said things within the context of a mature, monogamous relationship is different).

*Articles, glossaries, jargon lists, on graphic sex acts

*Advocacy of drug use deemed illegal under state or national laws which are applicable to the website in question (mature discussions, or debates about the nature of drug, drug laws, such as studies which compare "legal" and "illegal" addictions, or whether or not they "should" remain illegal is fine, advocating them is not unless the applicable laws change and the integrity of the website is not jeopardized).

6. Database of approved sources

The Wiki may strive to maintain a database of sources which are considered "reliable" to avoid endless arguments over the "reliability" of sources motivated by political bias, or people who simply don't know how to read past the title or the URL; however this is a tricky proposition, so I'm not entirely sure how to handle it yet.

7. Partisanship - The aim of the Wiki is not to rigidly police individuals for views (e.x. political views), however individuals on-Wiki who repeatedly engage in partisan rhetoric not conductive to building the Wiki or mature discussion will be frowned upon; actions will be taken on a case-by-case basis (e.x. if a member becomes known for repeatedly engaging in partisan rhetoric or talking points on Wiki, regardless of any actual policy violations, this will be used as a warning sign, such as in the case of the individual applying for adminship).

(Generally speaking, views allegedly expressed off-Wiki are fine and the Wiki has no desire to "police" individuals' activities on other websites, unless it amounts to a potentially serious conflict of interest, such as a a user adding partisan political content or spurious sourcing to another Wiki)

8. Labeling and categorizing

Generally speaking, usage of controversial and ambigious labels (e.x. political labels such as "Marxist", "Neo-Nazi", "Fascist", "White Supremacist", "Leftist", "conspiracy theorist", etc), etc will not be allowed either as sourced labels or as categories to avoid unnecessary controversy and nonsense such as people arguing and fighting over nonsense "labels" used more as just an anti-intellectual buzzword for anything "they don't like" than anything else.

Documenting factual information (e.x. Person A is a former member of the Klu Klux Klan or the American Communist Party; Person B wrote a book advocating the conspiracy theory that the USA is secretly controlled by Freemasons, etc) is allowed; usage of labels or categories of the above kind is not.

9. Fancruft

Generally speaking, articles on fiction or entertainment-related subjects (e.x. novels, film, comic books, TV, celebrities, musical acts. athletes, sports teams, video games, etc) will not be included simply because it "can be sourced" if it isn't deemed to be something which the "average" viewer or consumer of the content in question would find relevant (e.x. We don't want to turn into another Wikia or "Fandom", and our standards of inclusion will be decidedly higher than Wikipedia's).

As examples:

*Articles on individual fictional characters (e.x. from a TV show or video game) won't be allowed unless the character is deemed to have some significant cultural notability outside of the context of the show, video game, etc (e.x. Mickey Mouse, Superman, Batman, Nintendo's Mario, Homer Simpson, etc)

*Articles on individual songs, music albums, TV show episodes, etc won't generally be allowed unless they are considered significant enough in their own right outside of the context the TV series, musical act, etc

*Information or "gossip" on celebrities or "living people" in general which isn't relevant to "prurient interests" unless it is legally or historically significant (e.x. sex scandals; relationship rumors, etc)

10. Self-promotion or paid editing

Self-promoting and paid editing is welcome so long as it doesn't violate a conflict of interest. (Wikipedia seems very inconsistent on this, given that it seems to implement strict standards against paid editing or self-promotion, yet allows blatant conflicts of interests in regards to users' political editing or rhetoric on and off-site irrespective of its policy on neutral-POV).

---

This is enough for now; I appreciate any feedback and comments on this.

User avatar
Nemo
Sucks Noob
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by Nemo » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:56 pm

Site should hopefully be live in a few days; next step will be deciding what articles to import.

User avatar
Nemo
Sucks Noob
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by Nemo » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:36 pm

Finding a reliable host and WikiEngine was more trouble than expected.

As of right now though, the main page is live; next step is to import the remaining content pages and templates, then hopefully begin the article import phase after that:

https://callipedia.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page

User avatar
ericbarbour
Sucks Admin
Posts: 4547
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:56 am
Location: The ass-tral plane
Has thanked: 1099 times
Been thanked: 1797 times

Re: A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by ericbarbour » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:20 am

Good luck, you'll need it.

(Hope you're not Federico Leva.....are you?......)

User avatar
Nemo
Sucks Noob
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by Nemo » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:31 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:20 am
Good luck, you'll need it.

(Hope you're not Federico Leva.....are you?......)
No relation.

https://callipedia.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page

As of right now, the wiki has about 10,000 articles, and editors are welcome to join. (Please start a topic in the forum below before creating/importing any new articles)

https://callipedia.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:WikiForum

I plan on continuing to clean up existing pages (e.x. removing broken links) before adding any new pages.

User avatar
boredbird
Sucks Mod
Posts: 500
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:24 am
Has thanked: 635 times
Been thanked: 286 times

Re: A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by boredbird » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:01 am

Nemo wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:31 pm
As of right now, the wiki has about 10,000 articles, and editors are welcome to join. (Please start a topic in the forum below before creating/importing any new articles)
What benefits can someone expect to receive for helping with your wiki?

User avatar
Nemo
Sucks Noob
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by Nemo » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:18 pm

boredbird wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:01 am
Nemo wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:31 pm
As of right now, the wiki has about 10,000 articles, and editors are welcome to join. (Please start a topic in the forum below before creating/importing any new articles)
What benefits can someone expect to receive for helping with your wiki?
Do you mean financial compensation? I'm not in position to provide financial compensation at this time. (The article imports and maintenance I can do myself if I have to).

As far as the project is concerned, my aim is to provide a better environment for improving articles and collaboration; I have a forum here for questions or suggestions:

https://callipedia.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:WikiForum

User avatar
boredbird
Sucks Mod
Posts: 500
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:24 am
Has thanked: 635 times
Been thanked: 286 times

Re: A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by boredbird » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:31 am

Nemo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:18 pm
Do you mean financial compensation?
I mean anything besides the pursuit of hidden agendas.

User avatar
Nemo
Sucks Noob
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by Nemo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:18 pm

boredbird wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:31 am
Nemo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:18 pm
Do you mean financial compensation?
I mean anything besides the pursuit of hidden agendas.
Tell me what your main grievances with Wikipedia are, and I'll let you know how the site might address them.

User avatar
boredbird
Sucks Mod
Posts: 500
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:24 am
Has thanked: 635 times
Been thanked: 286 times

Re: A New Wikipedia fork which I'm in the process of working on

Post by boredbird » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:07 pm

Nemo wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:18 pm
boredbird wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:31 am
Nemo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:18 pm
Do you mean financial compensation?
I mean anything besides the pursuit of hidden agendas.
Tell me what your main grievances with Wikipedia are, and I'll let you know how the site might address them.
I don't think you can because the main problem is that you work for free and don't own control or receive credit for anything you create. It's beneficial only if it helps you in some other way such as promoting yourself and your friends or revenge upon your enemies or just have a need to spread your point of view or pictures of yourself naked and when you look at it that way high profile Wikipedia is the place to do it.

Post Reply