Saudi Arabia infiltrated and interfered Wikipedia

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Ognistysztorm
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Saudi Arabia infiltrated and interfered Wikipedia

Post by Ognistysztorm » Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:19 pm

Wikipedia is in a hot water now because of its allegedly tepid response to state-backed interference and infiltration from Saudi Arabia.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ol-content

https://dawnmena.org/saudi-arabia-gover ... to-prison/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-64195644

Considering that all the statements by Wikipedia so far comes off as uncaring, even dishonest regarding the presence of hierarchies, this could be the moment where Wikipedia will start to unravel after a long reign of the information marketplace.

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Re: Saudi Arabia infiltrated and interfered Wikipedia

Post by ericbarbour » Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:14 pm

The Arabic-language WP has a reputation for political craziness. It also doesn't help that Arabic comes in several regional dialects that are quite different from each other, so text posted by an Iraqi will be difficult for someone in Syria or Egypt to read. Not many people outside the Middle East have any idea what's going on there thanks to a high language barrier. Chances are, the WMF has ONE staffer (if any!) who can read it, and has to rely on them to watch the mess unfold. Those governments tend to squabble so there's even more reason to "heel" WP content using spies.

That Guardian story is classic stupid-journalist cant. I suspect whichever AFP reporter wrote this has no idea that WP admins are NOT paid "staff" and get no compensation or support whatsoever--other than the "pleasure" of being able to abuse random editors with near impunity. I also fully expect the WMF will do a bit of deploring and hand-wringing and (maybe) they will put out another sappy press release. And do nothing else. I suspect these "staffers" will spend many years of abuse in a brutal Saudi prison, until the KSA backs off after further protests and releases them. One expects no less from the bin Salman regime.

The KSA has been paranoid, repressive and religiously conservative since it began 100 years ago. Under bin Salman, it's reaching new heights of abuse and repression. He has built large prisons for the primary purpose of holding political dissidents and his opponents. And the two admins stand a good chance of being murdered or "suicided" in prison "for no apparent reason".

The Signpost mentioned the banninations of the Saudi "wiki-spies" on January 1st. THAT outrages them. People (that they don't like) fucking with content is a Terrible Crime. The arrest of the two admins happened in 2020 and was NEVER mentioned in "official WMF channels" that I can find. It did not "outrage" the sweet and loving Wikipedians sufficiently. Otherwise, it's DENY DENY DENY day and night.

Also, where were the Wiki-Bastards and where was their outrage, when Wiki-Bilim was being used by the Kazakh government to control the contents of the Kazakh Wikipedia? Oh, well, that's DIFFERENT. Jimmy Wales LIKED them. So they were "protected".

This will not cause Wikipedia "start to unravel". It has been SOP for more than 20 years. You could literally line up admins in front of the WMF offices at high noon and execute them with gunshots to the head---and I expect the WMF employees would go "that's awful, call someone and get the mess cleaned up, where shall we lunch today?"

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Re: Saudi Arabia infiltrated and interfered Wikipedia

Post by ericbarbour » Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:28 pm

Might as well post the book wiki notes about ar-WP here. This dates from 2013-2014.
Containing only 184,000 articles as of 2013, little is known about the Arabic Wikipedia's internal culture and operations. However, it has long been rumored to be the exact opposite to the Hebrew Wikipedia--extremely hostile toward Israel and Jews, on an "unofficial" but pervasive basis. By 2017 ar-WP had grown to a massive 456,000 articles, most apparently cross-translated from en-WP using bots.

Autotranslating the article about Israel gives the following quotes:

"State of Israel ( in Hebrew : מדינת ישראל Mdinat Yisrael), or the Zionist entity (the name given it by those who do not want to say "Israel" because of their recognition of their legitimacy) is a country in Western Asia located on the east bank of the Mediterranean Sea."
"....the war between the Arabs and Zionist Jews resulted in the Nakba of Palestine and exterminated many of the Palestinian towns and villages -- Most of its inhabitants became refugees in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and in some Arab countries or internally displaced, in Israel. "
"After the general election shall be elected members of the Knesset, the new head of the new government from among the members and give him a certain time to form his government, then recognizes members of the Knesset, the government proposed by the president-elect, and are classified in some quarters Israel as at the forefront of democratic regimes in the Middle East, but this democracy is damaged image often non-governmental organizations to declare that Israel is a racist state to commit genocide against the Palestinian people [5] ."
In September 2013, it was revealed that WMF employee Faris Knight, Education Program Consultant for the Arab World, was fond of Adolf Hitler. [10] Along with several other Arabic Wikipedia editors.
Also in 2013, the sysops of Arabic WP started offering cash prizes for editing. [11]

A 2014 Wired article, which discussed ar-WP cofounder Rami Tarawneh:

"“We know who you are,” the police told Tarawneh. As the founder and highest-ranking administrator of Arabic Wikipedia at the time — 2007 — Tarawneh had access to the IP addresses of every site contributor, including those who wrote controversial statements about Middle Eastern governments. “They wanted to know the IP of a certain guy who wrote something about the country’s leader,” Tarawneh says without mentioning which country or airport he was in."
"Arabic Wikipedia has evolved enormously since that 2007 incident. Through it all, Tarawneh has been a steady presence, guiding and cheerleading as Arabic Wikipedia has become an important information resource for the region. Far more than a translation of its English counterpart, the site has 690,000 registered users who’ve authored more than 240,000 articles. Many of the articles reflect a Middle Eastern worldview entirely different from the Western one, and their writers navigate acute religious and political sensitivities. Arabic Wikipedia has been blocked twice in Saudi Arabia and three times in Syria, but not in Jordan or Egypt. The Saudis only blocked certain articles, Tarawneh says, like ones about body parts."
"Back in 2007, Tarawneh told the police he needed time to find the IP address on his laptop. Released for two days, he went home and phoned the Wikipedian community. They decided to stage a fake dispute on “Al-Midan,” the Arabic version of Wikipedia’s technical discussion forum, Village Pump. When the police summoned Tarawneh a few days later, he told them that in the wake of the dispute, he’d been removed from administrator status. “I gave them my account and password, but everything was blocked,” Tarawneh says. Unable to extract the IP address they’d wanted, the police released him.".....

"At the same time, some users – mostly from Saudi Arabia, Tarawneh says – will veer to the extreme. “We’ve got guys posting on a daily basis saying, ‘The Westerners are infidels. This is Arabic Wikipedia, so it should be Muslim Wikipedia. Why do we have Christians with us?’” When this happens, veteran Wikipedians contact these users one-on-one, telling them why their post is inconsistent with the Wikipedia approach and fixing the offending article in the meantime."
Mebbe you could ask Tarawneh, who lives in Jordan, if he's "assisting or cooperating" with the Saudi government?

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Re: Saudi Arabia infiltrated and interfered Wikipedia

Post by Ognistysztorm » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:43 am

You should find a way to release these materials to the media, just saying. This is perhaps a one in a lifetime opportunity to destroy the mass delusion that Wikipedia is sacrosanct and infallible.

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Re: Saudi Arabia infiltrated and interfered Wikipedia

Post by Bbb23sucks » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:00 pm

Ognistysztorm wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:43 am
You should find a way to release these materials to the media, just saying. This is perhaps a one in a lifetime opportunity to destroy the mass delusion that Wikipedia is sacrosanct and infallible.
Imagine if we did that with all of the evidence we had, the Internet would hate Wikipedia overnight.
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Re: Saudi Arabia infiltrated and interfered Wikipedia

Post by ericbarbour » Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:41 pm

Bbb23sucks wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:00 pm
Imagine if we did that with all of the evidence we had, the Internet would hate Wikipedia overnight.
WE TRIED. Repeatedly. Various book publishers and publishing agents wanted nothing to do with it.

I'm working on another publisher right now. They are looking to outright commission a book about Wikipedia criticism. Stop talking about it, and either give me a chance to work on this; or better yet, WRITE YOUR OWN BOOK AND GET IT PUBLISHED.

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Re: Saudi Arabia infiltrated and interfered Wikipedia

Post by Bbb23sucks » Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:09 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:41 pm
Bbb23sucks wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:00 pm
Imagine if we did that with all of the evidence we had, the Internet would hate Wikipedia overnight.
WE TRIED. Repeatedly. Various book publishers and publishing agents wanted nothing to do with it.

I'm working on another publisher right now. They are looking to outright commission a book about Wikipedia criticism. Stop talking about it, and either give me a chance to work on this; or better yet, WRITE YOUR OWN BOOK AND GET IT PUBLISHED.
Sorry, I’m new here. Is there another thread where I can read about this?
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Re: Saudi Arabia infiltrated and interfered Wikipedia

Post by Ognistysztorm » Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:01 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:41 pm
Bbb23sucks wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:00 pm
Imagine if we did that with all of the evidence we had, the Internet would hate Wikipedia overnight.
WE TRIED. Repeatedly. Various book publishers and publishing agents wanted nothing to do with it.

I'm working on another publisher right now. They are looking to outright commission a book about Wikipedia criticism. Stop talking about it, and either give me a chance to work on this; or better yet, WRITE YOUR OWN BOOK AND GET IT PUBLISHED.
Did I read it correctly that a publisher had finally shown interest in Wikipedia criticism, and had commissioned people like you to write the book?

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