Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by boredbird » Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:44 am

SkepticalHistorian wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:35 am
First they came for the Nazis...
No, first they came for the drag queens then they came for the Nazis…

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Ognistysztorm » Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:54 am

Cla68 wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:47 pm
Western media, since the days of Cade Metz and the Register, have generally left Wikipedia alone. They seem to understand that Wikipedia is mostly toeing the line and/or supporting the leftist establishment narratives, such as climate change, COVID-19 restrictions, big pharma, mass migration, globalism, etc. However, this case could trigger a backlash in the media and by politicians for two reasons:

1. As I've already mentioned, it involves people messing with the Holocaust historical record and upsetting Holocaust scholars.
2. Allegedly promoting populist, nationalistic, antisemitic, "white supremacist" politics. In this case, Polish populists, which the establishment labels as "far right".
The process has already started. Anonymous which had axe to grind against Wikipedia because of suspected Chinese inteference on a number of related articles late last year, smelled blood in the water and humiliated Wikipedia upon hacking a Chinese weather balloon.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4828910
The collective also railed against Wikipedia for allegedly underrepresenting women in its articles, having a "spending cancer," engaging in deletionism, and committing POV skewing. It also accused Wikipedia of failing to adequately support two Wikipedia Arabic editors, Osama Khalid and Ziyad al-Sofiani, who have been imprisoned by the Saudi government for "swaying public opinion" and "violating public morals."
The third page merely includes the Anonymous logo, a screen capture of the balloon's control panel, and a meme showing an irate Greta Thunberg with the words "How dare Wikipedia" printed above and "Distorts to insult holocaust victims and survivors" below.
They're f*cked.

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Ognistysztorm » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:15 pm

The Signpost published a piece rebutting "clutch-the-pearl" arguments made forth by distortionist after the paper's publication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... t_research

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Ognistysztorm » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:37 pm

This from Gitz6666 is pointed toward Wikipedia's systemic failure in addressing POV disputes and general conflicts.
OK, I've decided to accept El C’s invitation to be more straightforward and clearlly state my point of view on Icewhiz. Note, however, that mine is a relatively uninformed point of view: I know little about their activities on and off Wikipedia and have not yet delved into talk page discussions.

My starting point is that indeed there is a "distortion" in most of the articles on Holocaust in Poland and Jewish/Polish relations. I knew this for a fact even before the G&K article was published, although I did not suspect the extent of the distortion. I don’t know whose fault it is, nor whether the distortion is malicious and deliberate, as G&K claim, or accidental and even physiological, given the peculiarities of the Polish war experience [25] and Polish historiography and politics [26]. However, I believe that G&K are right in their assessment of the content of our articles, which do often contain errors, lack balance and are influenced by a pro-Polish (nationalist) bias. If one doesn’t agree with this, what follows makes no sense.

If one accepts this starting point and acknowledges that there is a systematic bias of this kind, which for one reason or another couldn't be addressed and corrected through the usual editing process (e.g., improvements got stonewalled, consensus couldn't be reached, etc.), then one consequence follows: it was inevitable that an Icewhiz would arise sooner or later, the arch-POV-pusher ready to do anything to publish their content, heedless of any WP policy and guideline and even common decency. They'd choose the username [User:FreeBlinkHey|FreeBlinkHey]] (Treblinka) or Book&Wall (Buchenwald) or Icewhiz (Auschwitz) or whatever, and devote their entire life to right this wrong, creating armies of sockpuppets, canvassing in and off-Wiki, doxing and threatening, bludgeoning the talk pages like mad until our laptops start bleeding on their own. I myself am not Jewish, but both my father and wife are, my relatives and in-laws have been persecuted in no less than three different countries (no concentration camps, though), and I sense the power of trauma, the incredible energy and concentration it gives you.

From the point of view of WP policies and guidelines, the issue is quite simple: users of this type are egregious POV-pushers who must be topic banned and blocked as soon as they show up. I’m sure Icewhiz got what they deserved and nobody can complain about it. But if WP collaborative editing doesn’t work and the articles on the Holocaust are unbalanced, the arrival of Icewhiz-like monsters is as inevitable. It's like when a clogged pipe bursts from water pressure – you can’t blame the water. That’s the reason why the lamentations "Icewhiz is a catastrophe, a scourge, one of our worst harassers, etc.", while not wrong, don't cut to the chase, and the accusation "the G&K article is copied from Icewhiz’s content" doesn’t persuade either. Icewhiz is the symptom, not the cause. It's not Icewhiz who created Icewhiz's content, but Icewhiz's content (the need to rebalance the area) that created the arch-POV-pusher Icewhiz

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Ognistysztorm » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:46 pm

Page has been set up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... Poland/FAQ
The Arbitration Committee will only be considering the conduct allegations made in the paper. Any content decisions should be made through the normal editing process, including article talk page discussion, as the Arbitration Committee does not rule on content.

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by SkepticalHistorian » Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:51 pm

These comments that were deleted here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... 1143692357
sfedljkshg.jpeg
sfedljkshg.jpeg (103.36 KiB) Viewed 1308 times
With criticism of the removal here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _talk_page

Nail what this is really about.

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by wexter » Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:48 am

SkepticalHistorian wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:51 pm
These comments that were deleted here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... 1143692357
sfedljkshg.jpeg
With criticism of the removal here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _talk_page

Nail what this is really about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... t_research

Deep within the "Signpost article is this gem"
"we should recognize how this case" reveals several "of Wikipedia's more fundamental problems"


As mentioned on the Eastern European Thread - there was a 2009 arbitration about the same issue..

The text which was removed/reverted is part of a larger psycho-babble missive in the comments on the signpost article. The comments are dominated by the same people involved in this imbroglio as if anyone really cares or is taking notice.

Content on the social network called Wikipedia is always subject to arbitrary deletion based on who likes/dislikes it - nothing new to see here. Just endless pages of mosh pit nonsense.

imbroglio: a violently confused or bitterly complicated altercation : embroilment. d. : an intricate or complicated situation (as in a drama or novel)
We have proof that Wikipedia cannot solve a governance problem over a span of 14 years! Forget about the content (judging the content, the insanity of Wikipedia dialog, or the imbroglio) - How embarrassing is a fourteen year governance failure and fester?

Nobody in the press has figured out the same problem has been active and allowed to continue and fester for fourteen years.
Wikipedia - "Barely competent and paranoid. There’s a hell of a combination."

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by ericbarbour » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:08 am

wexter wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:48 am
Nobody in the press has figured out the same problem has been active and allowed to continue and fester for fourteen years.
Some crazy happened right from the beginning. Tim Shell posted a pile of copyrighted Ayn Rand crap in February 2001, Cunctator showed up in July, legendary Israel-first maniac RK started in September (and ended up triggering an "arbitration" before Arbcom even existed), and Erik Moeller appeared in December. Moeller and Cunctator were major architects behind the forcing-out of Larry Sanger in early 2002. Still....crazy-train was more an exception than the rule.

The really deep insanity picked up circa 2003-2004, around the time David Gerard and his many enablers showed up and started convincing Jimbo to do bad things. Weirdly enough, these freaks were almost always Brits or Australians. Gerard had a LOT of power and support in the early days.

So you could make a case for TWENTY YEARS of real hardcore dysfunction.

All these other things happened in 2003-04:
  • the setup of "special functions" in MediaWiki software that led to checkuser and oversight in 2005
  • the beginnings of arbitration
  • the beginnings of mediation, which failed hard, because power-mongering abuse was "more fun"
  • Angela Beesley arrived in February 2003 (far as I can tell, as the records are full of holes)
  • the formation of the WMF, first announcement in June 2003
  • the setup of the bureaucrat system in February 2004. Guess who the first bureaucrats were. Among others....Erik Moeller, Angela Beesley, and of course, Gerard supporter Caroline "Secretlondon" Ford! Silly question!
  • the arrival of the first bonkers patrollers, like Theresa Knott and Guy Chapman
  • I will probably remember some others later--there was a LOT of insane crap.

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by wexter » Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:20 pm

legendary Israel-first maniac RK started in September 2001
And had a "run" for twenty years that ended in 2021.. He left a legacy of "nuts" and "narrative framing" all over Wikipedia.
Feminist Judaism
Huh? "Feminist judaism isn't neopaganism" What are you talking about? You keep reverting my edits to the neopaganism article, but you misunderstand me. My own community is feminist Judaism. Who told you that we are against feminist Judaism? That person is lying to you. I never wrote or edited anything like that. I am writing about something entirely different - people who left the Jewish faith, and who openly admit to worshipping pagan gods. That is neither feminism nor Judaism. RK (talk) 16:25, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Absolutely nuts..
Wikipedia - "Barely competent and paranoid. There’s a hell of a combination."

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by boredbird » Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:30 pm

VolunteerMarek's "main response".

https://volunteermarek.substack.com/p/m ... -and-klein
VolunteerMarek wrote: Icewhiz, Icewhiz, Icewhiz…
He should ask ArbCom for an extension to submit this to the Journal of Icewhiz Studies.

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