WP and Big Pharma

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Cla68
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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by Cla68 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:54 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:54 am
which I believe is applicable to people like MastCell/Gorski, which I think is no coincidence who is in bad health even though he's only in his 60s. He made the mistake of using his own product.
Just curious, where did you see this?
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/editor ... ng-editor/
During the pandemic I saw a more current photo of him than the one you posted above, which appears to have been taken about 20 years ago. He looks rail-thin and anemic. I noticed that he had also greatly reduced his participation in Wikipedia and I didn't think it was a coincidence.

The medical industry, because of its nature, is rife with opportunists. Another big one is patent jumping. There are people who make a living, sometimes a very good one, just by imagining all the different medical devices or technologies that might be invented in the future, and getting a pre-emptive patent for them. I believe one of those people was heavily involved in the Elizabeth Holmes' drama.

One thing I learned as an investor in pharma companies, is that hospital companies often do not make decisions on their drug suppliers solely because they think it's the best drug. Although hospitals usually organize as not-for-profit corporations, they do pay a lot of attention to their revenue stream. Pharmaceutical companies give them financial incentives to use their drugs which means the hospital may not be enthusiastic about trying a drug from another source, even it has some benefits. One example that I know of is a company called Baudax Bio. They have an approved, intravenous pain killer called Anjeso, which works on mild to moderate pain. It's main quality is that it is non-narcotic/opioid and therefore non-addictive, like ibuprofen. They can't get any hospitals to buy it. None are apparently interested. If you go to a hospital for in-patient care, the drug(s) they're giving you are not necessarily the best ones for the situation, but more based on who they have chosen as their supplier or who (private or government) has given them the best incentives to use.

Anyway, I believe the COVID-19 pandemic will ultimately be harmful to Big Pharma and some of the related industries. The damage that was caused to people by the shut downs, school closures, forced mask wearing, and perhaps the mRNA technology could likely cause a backlash against that industry. I've heard through the grapevine that the rate of flu and tetanus vaccinations are way, way down in certain parts of the US because people are so mad about being pressured to get the COVID-19 jabs that they've sworn off getting any vaccinations at all.

If the US Supreme Court weakens Section 230 in the near future, and it coincides with some big lawsuits against Phizer and the rest (and yes, I know the drug companies are technically immune to lawsuits over their products), we could see some subpoenas being delivered to the Wikimedia Foundation asking for the personal information on many of the WP editors denigrating natural medicine and Ivermectin and promoting the medicine that the current establishment supports. We'll see.

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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by wexter » Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:39 pm

Small pharma shenanigans -> do not pass go do not collect $200. Big pharma shenanigans dr evil gets to collect $2 trillion dollars.


https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3 ... -contempt/
Wikipedia - "Barely competent and paranoid. There’s a hell of a combination."

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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by badmachine » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:26 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:54 am
which I believe is applicable to people like MastCell/Gorski, which I think is no coincidence who is in bad health even though he's only in his 60s. He made the mistake of using his own product.
Just curious, where did you see this?

PS, there are more photos of him on the SBM site. Along with old rants about people trying to attack him. My my, he's a sensitive chap, isn't he?

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/editor ... ng-editor/
sad to say he does look very ill:
gorski.jpg
gorski.jpg (368.91 KiB) Viewed 922 times
link

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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by Cla68 » Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:08 pm

^^^^
Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

One thing that Gorski's blog does, and the anti-natural medicine editors like MastCell and Guy Chapman do on Wikipedia is promote a false dilemma. In fact, most of the shills for establishment western medicine, like Doc James, do this. They imply that there's a battle going on between science and fact-based, peer reviewed, rock solid, exhaustively tested pharmaceuticals and other medical treatments, and sketchy, crank-supported, superstitious, dangerous folklore medicine.

That's really not the case, and this is one of the reasons why the way Wikipedia presents its medical information is problematic. If you are diagnosed with cancer, for example, and you start drinking gallons of carrot and shark bone juice every day in the hope you won't have to undergo any chemotherapy, you're already too late to the party. Steve Jobs found this out the hard way.

The way to win this particular battle, as with many games, is not to play. In other words, it's PREVENTION. From your early years you need to be following a habit of good diet and exercise. Prevent the dense, internal fat from building up around your internal organs by keeping your body fat % around 12-15% (women can be a little higher). Do 3-5 hours of exercise a week, both cardio and weights, to keep your cardiovascular system, muscular/skeletal system, immunity, and testosterone production at optimum levels. At the same time and if you desire, supplement with whatever herbs, Chinese medicine, natural remedies (Vitamin D, etc) that seems to work for you. I'm not saying that doing homeopathy or some such your entire life will make you healthier, but if you believe it does, there's no harm in doing it if you're also practicing good diet and exercise. If most Americans did this, big pharma's revenue would likely drop by 75%.

I'm 54 and at my last physical my doctor told me that about 80% of patients my age she sees have several chronic conditions requiring daily doses of a number of medications. I was like, "Really? That many? In their 50s?" She nodded. I had no idea that the health problem in the US was that bad.

The message from big pharma seems to be, "Live your life however you want to. If you end up getting hypertension, diabetes, or clinical depression, it's no big deal, we've got the drugs you need so you can keep living the way you want to." I think this is why some people, perhaps more leftists than conservatives, like big Pharma's message, because it promotes avoidance of individual responsibility and consequence in lifestyle decisions. As that academic paper I linked to early in this thread showcases, Big Pharma is aware of this and definitely taking advantage of it.

Anyway, to turn this back to Wikipedia, one of the tactics that MastCell, Doc James, Guy, and the others do is to remove any academic study from an article on natural medicine that supports that medicine. For example, homeopathy is popular in India, so a number of Indian academic journals have published peer-reviewed articles showing marginal health benefits from homeopathic treatments. Of course, that cannot be allowed so any editor who tries to quote those in the article on homeopathy gets reverted and hounded away. It could be that those studies really are bogus, but Wikipedia is not supposed to decide that.

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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by ericbarbour » Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:24 pm

Cla68 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:54 pm
During the pandemic I saw a more current photo of him than the one you posted above, which appears to have been taken about 20 years ago. He looks rail-thin and anemic. I noticed that he had also greatly reduced his participation in Wikipedia and I didn't think it was a coincidence.
Does not surprise me. The GPs I know around here tend to be thin, but HEALTHY. One of them is 76 years old and still runs in triathlons. Trying to set an example for his patients, and failing, as most of them are obese and suffering from the usual side effects (diabetes, poor circulation to the extremities, liver trouble, higher risk for cancers and covid, etc.)
Another big one is patent jumping. There are people who make a living, sometimes a very good one, just by imagining all the different medical devices or technologies that might be invented in the future, and getting a pre-emptive patent for them.
In the process of reading as much about electric-vehicle technology as possible, I tried to buy modern permanent-magnet AC hub motors. Marvels of modern technology, and easier to use than conventional motors and drivetrains, but no "mere person" can buy one, because they're being sold only to OEMs.

During my studies I discovered what has to be a future patent troll in Cambridge, Mass, that is designing hub motors for vehicles--and taking out dozens of patents on every little aspect of the design. And not actually manufacturing, licensing, or selling anything.

Their website is hilariously vague. The top management is full of money guys with no experience in automotive manufacturing. The photos of their "proposed vehicles" are CGIed fakes. But do a patent search, and holy shit.
https://indigotech.com
https://patents.justia.com/assignee/ind ... logies-inc
Anyway, I believe the COVID-19 pandemic will ultimately be harmful to Big Pharma and some of the related industries. The damage that was caused to people by the shut downs, school closures, forced mask wearing, and perhaps the mRNA technology could likely cause a backlash against that industry. I've heard through the grapevine that the rate of flu and tetanus vaccinations are way, way down in certain parts of the US because people are so mad about being pressured to get the COVID-19 jabs that they've sworn off getting any vaccinations at all.
I can only hope you're wrong. But there's clear evidence it is already happening. Ragey middle Americans are having children and refusing to get THEM vaccinated against common childhood diseases. Result: polio and pertussis, "ancient scourges" which were almost wiped out 40 years ago, are stalking the land again. This is not helped when giant corporations manufacture defective vaccines.....
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -quicktake
https://www.bu.edu/articles/2018/whoopi ... -the-rise/
The way to win this particular battle, as with many games, is not to play. In other words, it's PREVENTION.
You just said the magic (bad) word. Mainstream medicine loves it when you become deathly ill because it means MOAR PROFIT for them. Healthy citizens aren't "profit centers". MDs get very little in nutritional and exercise medicine education, so their usual first response to someone's problem is to reach for the prescription pad.

Meanwhile, every pharmacy in America carries homeopathics, which I guarantee are useless, and an assortment of "natural" remedies, which may or may not help. Since the older folks are already going into those pharmacies to buy Big P's semi-useless drugs, they might also buy the other stuff. Those corporate pricks LOVE homeopathy because the margins are INCREDIBLE.

If Gorski is so pissed off about "quacks", why isn't he firebombing major corporate pharmacy chains for carrying homeopathy? Or picketing board meetings of those firms? Why doesn't he go after soft-drink manufacturers, a proven source of obesity and diabetes in 21st-century North America? Because it's far easier to fuck about on Wikipedia instead. More FUN too. No one is sending cops to beat him on the testicles--unfortunately for clueless WP readers.

Cannabis is one of those things you can use to win arguments with arrogant doctors. THC and similar compounds have been proven, repeatedly, to have legitimate medical value. Lessening side effects of chemotherapy, multiple sclerosis pain relief, tranquilizing effects, etc. But for 90 years the "mainstream" has been screaming that marijuana is "a terrible poison" (Harry Anslinger and old-timey racism again) and medical authorities have repeated the old propaganda that it has "no medical value". Most US states have loosened or removed restrictions on cannabis--except for conservative states in the south and midwest. And the feds continue to keep it in Schedule 1. So cannabis sellers can't use major banks to do business, because banks will get busted for "dealing with criminal organizations".

But OMG you can't patent cannabis extracts. THAT is what Big P really cares about. So they get their MD-bearing shills to attack it blindly and angrily. They commonly deflect the issues by focusing on CBD, a common extract of marijuana that really isn't much proven help for medical conditions. People who have done this include, oh looky, David Gorski.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cbd-oi ... ed-cancer/

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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by Cla68 » Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:38 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:24 pm
Cannabis is one of those things you can use to win arguments with arrogant doctors. THC and similar compounds have been proven, repeatedly, to have legitimate medical value. Lessening side effects of chemotherapy, multiple sclerosis pain relief, tranquilizing effects, etc. But for 90 years the "mainstream" has been screaming that marijuana is "a terrible poison" (Harry Anslinger and old-timey racism again) and medical authorities have repeated the old propaganda that it has "no medical value". Most US states have loosened or removed restrictions on cannabis--except for conservative states in the south and midwest. And the feds continue to keep it in Schedule 1. So cannabis sellers can't use major banks to do business, because banks will get busted for "dealing with criminal organizations".

But OMG you can't patent cannabis extracts. THAT is what Big P really cares about. So they get their MD-bearing shills to attack it blindly and angrily. They commonly deflect the issues by focusing on CBD, a common extract of marijuana that really isn't much proven help for medical conditions. People who have done this include, oh looky, David Gorski.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cbd-oi ... ed-cancer/
I suppose that cannabis should be classified as an alternative or natural medicine. I just checked the Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis

and it is only mildly negative. I checked the history and Doc James has been fairly active in the article, but I didn't see MastCell or Guy Chapman. I guess the pharmaceutical industry doesn't see it as a huge threat. Gorski has a few articles pooh-poohing it as a medicine:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=can ... mit=Search

but they aren't as negative as they are about other alternative treatments, like Ivermectin. I suppose it might be because one of the major political parties in the country is pushing to legalize and decriminalize cannabis, and the pharma industry doesn't want to alienate them over the issue.

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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by Cla68 » Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:10 pm

Coincidentally, Wood Harrelson just addressed this topic in a satirical way last night:

https://youtu.be/w8LX8MQMrag?t=354

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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by badmachine » Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:06 pm

Cla68 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:10 pm
Coincidentally, Wood Harrelson just addressed this topic in a satirical way last night:

https://youtu.be/w8LX8MQMrag?t=354
right on cue:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadell ... monologue/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/woody-har ... -monologue
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertai ... 354124002/
https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/woody- ... 235536082/
https://www.tmz.com/2023/02/26/woody-ha ... iracy-snl/
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/ ... 234686880/
https://www.newsweek.com/woody-harrelso ... et-1783859
https://www.nme.com/news/tv/woody-harre ... ue-3404535 et tu, NME?

etc etc etc

of course this was added to his biography. apparently he has questioned the coronavirus narrative in the past.

in that diff, the wikipedians did see fit to remove the word "inaccurately" from this phrase:
Harrelson said he "doesn't believe in the [[germ theory]]" and inaccurately finds [[face masks during the COVID-19 pandemic|face masks as a preventative measure against COVID-19]] "absurd", adding, "I'm sick of like, you're wearing a mask, and you think it contains your breath—but if it did you'd die, you'd be breathing in your own [[carbon monoxide]] {{sic}}."
(edited)

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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by ericbarbour » Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:12 pm

“Who are going to have guest host next week, Scott Adams?”
Actually that could be an epic SNL shitshow. It's hilarious that people are "just now finding out" that Adams is a hardened libertarian asshole. He always has been--it's part of what made his comic strip popular in the first place. That kind of humor works best if you have a raging asshole criticizing other raging assholes. Comedy is an ugly and horrible business.

I can think of all sorts of skits the SNL writers could use. Force Adams to dress up like Dead Alex Trebek and host "Jeopardy In Hell" or something like that. Which reminds me:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/24/us/p ... octor.html
Hey man, some guys would love to be anally force-fed, etc. etc. (See? Comedy is ugly.)

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Re: WP and Big Pharma

Post by Cla68 » Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:07 am

One thing I mentioned in my post about cannabis was about how the medical establishment's response to its use as an alternative treatment is milder than that for Ivermectin. I was reminded again just how much "they" don't want Ivermectin thought of as a possible treatment when the Washington Post published this article yesterday:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... d-flu-rsv/

The mainstream media and establishment response to Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and Ivermectin (Iv), which went as far as some governments threatening to imprison, or at least banish, doctors who prescribed them for COVID-19, is a good example of why the pharmaceutical industry acts as it does. If you understand the way it works, then you can predict how they'll react to situations like this.

Medical patents in the US generally only are allowed for 20 years, although they sometimes can be extended for a few more years. Since it can take up to 10 years to get a drug through its approval process, including clinical trials, pharmaceutical companies have a very short time window in which they can make any money off of their products.

Notice that during the pandemic, the establishment recommended Remdesivir (Re) as one of the primary treatments for the virus. Like HCQ and Iv, Remdesivir was not originally intended for treatment of SARS-type viruses. One big difference between Re and those other two drugs, however, is that Re is still under patent, which means that its exclusive manufacturers, patent holders, and distributors can still make money off of it. They can't make money, or near as much, using public domain drugs like HCQ or Iv. Also, if public domain drugs are found to be an effective treatment, even in only 20% of patients (the FDA standard for approval), then an emergency use authorization would be much more likely to not be approved.

It was that emergency use authorization which allowed the pharma industry to use an expedited process to get their COVID-19 treatments, including the mRNA shots, through the approval process, with much weaker clinical trials than usual, and then sponsored by various Western governments and the UN around the world for mass distribution. Western media mainly ignored it, but several governments, including Mexico, India, and many African nations, objected to what they described as the coercion to play along with this program and allowed their medical systems to use HCQ, Iv, and other alternative treatments. Some, like Denmark, played along at first but then withdrew.

President Trump got played by the medical establishment.

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