Wikipedia takes identity politics to a whole new level. Now your literal chosen name is a protected characteristic!

You can talk about anything related to Wikipedia criticism here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Boink Boink
Sucks Fan
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:50 pm
Been thanked: 85 times

Wikipedia takes identity politics to a whole new level. Now your literal chosen name is a protected characteristic!

Post by Boink Boink » Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am

This seems to be a rather interesting side-topic from the Scottywong Arbitration melee. Perhaps it will become the main event?

To those who think Wikipedia is neutral and think those who see a clear slant toward the so called "progressive" end of the scale in content and community are all imagining it, can you explain to me how it can possibly be that without apparently anyone even noticing much less objecting vehemently, the right of a Wikipedia editor to choose their username from any language in the world, has somehow been elevated to a matter of tolerance and inclusion equivalent to race, sexuality, etc?

Look at this shit.....
A username is one of the few personal identifiers on Wikipedia and broad discretion was and is granted on the understanding that editors from all over the world, from many different language backgrounds, are welcome to edit Wikipedia. "Be open, welcoming, and inclusive" was part of the WP:FIVEPILLARS on which Wikipedia was founded. That is the reason why we shouldn't view usernames from other alphabets as something that we "tolerate" or that stands in the way of a "common editing environment". Just as we don't say accessibility features and other protected human rights areas on Wikipedia are inconvenient to implement or honour. I think you are understanding of this viewpoint and hope you reconsider the framing of why this provoked such a reaction in the community. The username and the language background from where it came had nothing to do with the locus of the dispute. It was brought up for an ignorant reason. Just as it would have been as inappropriate to single out their gender identity, sexuality, cultural background, ethnicity, disability, etc. Inconvenient. Too sensitive. Absurd. You're imagining things. Not normal. Unintentional. All of these things have been used to attack and dismiss each one of these protected grounds throughout history. They're all very effective in prevent protected grounds from being recognized and enforced. Mkdw talk 01:51, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
Holy fucking cow. That is some Grade A wokester bullshit right there.

Is it a stretch to say Wikipedia just disappeared right up its own asshole in a shameless attempt to appeal to the minorities who already make up a massively disproportionate ratio of the community?

Wikipedia has long been the natural home to those minorities who don't feel normal, to the point that the whole TERF issue will probably still yet cause massive reputational harm, as the supposedly diverse and inclusive Wikipedia tries to cope with the fact it STILL has a thoroughly miserable record in being attractive to the rather large proportion of the world who identify as straight, born a woman, living as a women, where race/ethnicity/nationality/religion is entirely irrelevant.

Rather than focus on that massive problem, the ever woke Wikipedia community wants to add USERNAMES to the long list of protected characteristics? You will note they said "we" a whole bunch there, and specifically referred to the "reaction in the community".

I will say that I definitely think a lot of the wokester outrage over this issue is completely fake, all part of the Wikipediocracy plot to take down a long time enemy, Scottywong, but I don't think there can be any doubt that these are Mkdw's genuine beliefs right here, and they are shared by a whole bunch of other Wikipedia editors.

And since they are a Wikipedia Administrator, you better believe they have the power to enforce them.

Not only is this yet more proof that Wikipedia is far more about being a haven for radicals and driving not reflecting world politics, it is also pretty good proof that Wikipedia would suck at being a global encyclopedia if it ever actually decided that was its primary mission.

Yes, it is of course rather obvious that if Wikipedia wants to be a global effort it is a good thing that editors from different parts of the world who speak different languages can, if they have the ability, contribute on different language editions.

The key word there is ability.

If you are one of these people who comes from a foreign culture but is quite capable of reading and writing in English, then it isn't remotely controversial, let alone -ist, to state that you should be aware that the vast majority of your peers on the English language Wikipedia can only read English and only parse the Latin alphabet.

Yes, of course it is terribly colonial of me to refer to non-English speakers and things as foreign, but you can frankly go fuck yourself you snowflake. One of the benefits of being so good at conquering the globe, is that we get to have English as the global language. Being a communist regime isn't the only reason Mandarin Wikipedia is dwarfed by English Wikipedia.

We are Rome, and everywhere we stand, is Rome.

That said, we are all grown ups, we can put aside matters of who won what wars and whose culture is the best to come together to build a shared global knowledge. Or at least, as history has shown quite well, ironically through the hugely multicultural society the is Britain today, we don't need to let wokester bullshit stand in its way. Indeed, dare I say it is the wokesters who are erecting barriers and preventing cross cultural understanding. If it's racist to say Islamic culture is sexist, don't be surprised to see you don't have an awful lot of English speaking Islamic women wanting to create excellent articles for English Wikipedia.

Furthermore, if you are a member of the Wikipedia movement, you will appreciate how crucial it is to the basic function of communication and collaboration, that editors are able to recognise and indeed use editor's usernames. Yes, you can copy and paste foreign character names, but if the names are barely even recognisable to you, that is very risky.

I want to stress here that I am deliberately talking about the functional part of a Wikipedia editor's identity, their username, not their signature. Because unsurprisingly, a classic Wikipedia fudge around this issue is to advise users with foreign names to use a Latin character signature. Quite odd that they don't see that as a hugely offensive act of forced assimilation. You can be brown, but only on the inside! Kindly use your slave name around these parts, boy.

It says a lot about Wikipedia that none of the billions of dollars of donor money being spent on "inclusion" ever got directed toward this issue. It was spent only on allowing editors to move seamlessly between language editions using one single username, which is of course what has meant this issue has become more of an issue, as more and more foreign looking usernames started to appear in English language Wikipedia.

The hilarious thing is, there is an inclusive way to solve this issue that also meets the needs of an ENCYCLOPEDIA. Allow users to choose their primary username in the alphabet of their home wiki, and on their first instance in visiting a foreign edition where their user name will baffle and confuse, they are required to enter a pseudonym in the local language.

This becomes their local username, not their signature, with technology handling the rest, up to and including allowing local signatures to reflect their chosen name if they are so fragile the cannot bear to be in a foreign land without their native identify on display (and tbf this probably applies more to an asshole like Beeblebrox venturing into foreign lands than it does in the opposite direction, as fanciful as it is that an ignorant bastard like Beeblebrox even knows a foreign language, since as one of the English Wikipedia Supreme Court he is in real life unsurprisingly a white man occupying a foreign land colonised by his forefathers, and in whose honour he treats its native inhabitants with open contempt).

If they cannot do so, it shall be seen as a sign they do indeed lack the WP:COMPETENCE required to edit that edition. Sorry not sorry.

This is no doubt too simple for Western Wikipedia. They love their grandstanding and virtue signalling and leftist cancel culture far too much.

Oh well.

Just another thing that will devalue the brand among the young (who sure as shit understand the practical complexities of global communication better than any dumbass wokester Wikipedian) and thus hopefully hasten their death.

User avatar
Bbb23sucks
Sucker
Posts: 1337
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:08 am
Location: The Astral Plane
Has thanked: 1255 times
Been thanked: 263 times

Re: Wikipedia takes identity politics to a whole new level. Now your literal chosen name is a protected characteristic!

Post by Bbb23sucks » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:13 am

Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
Not only is this yet more proof that Wikipedia is far more about being a haven for radicals and driving not reflecting world politics, it is also pretty good proof that Wikipedia would suck at being a global encyclopedia if it ever actually decided that was its primary mission.
Neoliberal progressivism isn't "radical", it is the dominant mainstream ideology.
Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
If you are one of these people who comes from a foreign culture but is quite capable of reading and writing in English, then it isn't remotely controversial, let alone -ist, to state that you should be aware that the vast majority of your peers on the English language Wikipedia can only read English and only parse the Latin alphabet.
Fair enough, but this is just about usernames, it's not like you are forced to actually know/learn a language.
Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
Yes, of course it is terribly colonial of me to refer to non-English speakers and things as foreign, but you can frankly go fuck yourself you snowflake. One of the benefits of being so good at conquering the globe, is that we get to have English as the global language. Being a communist regime isn't the only reason Mandarin Wikipedia is dwarfed by English Wikipedia.
What? Why do you want one dominant global fake corporate culture to have global hegemony? Global neoliberalism is one of the worst things that has ever happened to society.
Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
We are Rome, and everywhere we stand, is Rome.
"We" aren't. The working class isn't. The bourgeoisie are. American/European culture is not globally dominant. An amalgamation of various corporate manufactured fake cultural ideas are.
Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
That said, we are all grown ups, we can put aside matters of who won what wars and whose culture is the best to come together to build a shared global knowledge. Or at least, as history has shown quite well, ironically through the hugely multicultural society the is Britain today, we don't need to let wokester bullshit stand in its way. Indeed, dare I say it is the wokesters who are erecting barriers and preventing cross cultural understanding. If it's racist to say Islamic culture is sexist, don't be surprised to see you don't have an awful lot of English speaking Islamic women wanting to create excellent articles for English Wikipedia.
I am against the idea of modern multiculturalism. While it may sound good in practice, it almost always leads to "a lowest common denominator" situation.
Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
Furthermore, if you are a member of the Wikipedia movement, you will appreciate how crucial it is to the basic function of communication and collaboration, that editors are able to recognise and indeed use editor's usernames. Yes, you can copy and paste foreign character names, but if the names are barely even recognisable to you, that is very risky.
What? It's not that hard. I'll you need to do is copy-paste, which is probably what you are doing anyway.
Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
I want to stress here that I am deliberately talking about the functional part of a Wikipedia editor's identity, their username, not their signature. Because unsurprisingly, a classic Wikipedia fudge around this issue is to advise users with foreign names to use a Latin character signature. Quite odd that they don't see that as a hugely offensive act of forced assimilation. You can be brown, but only on the inside! Kindly use your slave name around these parts, boy.
Who cares, this whole thing is a stupid waste of time. Or as Trump would call it: "a nothingburger". :lol:
Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
The hilarious thing is, there is an inclusive way to solve this issue that also meets the needs of an ENCYCLOPEDIA. Allow users to choose their primary username in the alphabet of their home wiki, and on their first instance in visiting a foreign edition where their user name will baffle and confuse, they are required to enter a pseudonym in the local language.
Sounds like a great project for the WMF. Just gives $20 billion dollars and 30 years and we can forcefully roll out some barely functional garbage that no one wants.
Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
If they cannot do so, it shall be seen as a sign they do indeed lack the WP:COMPETENCE required to edit that edition. Sorry not sorry.
Why? No one should care about this. It does not matter.
Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
This is no doubt too simple for Western Wikipedia. They love their grandstanding and virtue signalling and leftist cancel culture far too much.
How is any of this "leftist"? Every time I hear about wokeism, it's from neoliberals, not leftists.
"Globally banned" since September 5, 2023 for exposing harassment.

Email: wikipediasucks@disroot.org

Petition to ban Bbb23Wikipedia AlternativeDonate to help French strikers

User avatar
ericbarbour
Sucks Admin
Posts: 4547
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:56 am
Location: The ass-tral plane
Has thanked: 1099 times
Been thanked: 1797 times

Re: Wikipedia takes identity politics to a whole new level. Now your literal chosen name is a protected characteristic!

Post by ericbarbour » Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:33 pm

Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
Is it a stretch to say Wikipedia just disappeared right up its own asshole in a shameless attempt to appeal to the minorities who already make up a massively disproportionate ratio of the community?
No. WP's insider crew continues to be dominated by white males. EVERYTHING posted on that arbitration is a LIE. Wikipedians must play the "PC welcome-and-loving game", at least in public, if they wish to gain "mighty pwoerz" over others. If they want to abuse someone for having a non-European name or whatever, they must do it quietly.

Look at Bbb23's history for examples. MUCH better at playing this rotten little game than Wieser and his petty little pals. For that matter, I'm surprised Binksternet (fellow audio professional and WP buttboy) hasn't been dragged to Arbcom yet for similar abuse. Usually they do this crap and get away with it, because no one was watching.

Dr Mario
Sucks
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:54 pm
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: Wikipedia takes identity politics to a whole new level. Now your literal chosen name is a protected characteristic!

Post by Dr Mario » Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:58 pm

Boink Boink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:54 am
To those who think Wikipedia is neutral and think those who see a clear slant toward the so called "progressive" end of the scale in content and community are all imagining it, can you explain to me how it can possibly be that without apparently anyone even noticing much less objecting vehemently, the right of a Wikipedia editor to choose their username from any language in the world, has somehow been elevated to a matter of tolerance and inclusion equivalent to race, sexuality, etc?
Thats because Wikipedia has two conflicting polices WP:NPOV and WP:CONSENUS which creates the side step policy WP:NOT. So it cannot make up its mind what is so don't expect them to come up with logical solutions for these flabable but important topics.


Look at this shit.....
A username is one of the few personal identifiers on Wikipedia and broad discretion was and is granted on the understanding that editors from all over the world, from many different language backgrounds, are welcome to edit Wikipedia. "Be open, welcoming, and inclusive" was part of the WP:FIVEPILLARS on which Wikipedia was founded. That is the reason why we shouldn't view usernames from other alphabets as something that we "tolerate" or that stands in the way of a "common editing environment". Just as we don't say accessibility features and other protected human rights areas on Wikipedia are inconvenient to implement or honour. I think you are understanding of this viewpoint and hope you reconsider the framing of why this provoked such a reaction in the community. The username and the language background from where it came had nothing to do with the locus of the dispute. It was brought up for an ignorant reason. Just as it would have been as inappropriate to single out their gender identity, sexuality, cultural background, ethnicity, disability, etc. Inconvenient. Too sensitive. Absurd. You're imagining things. Not normal. Unintentional. All of these things have been used to attack and dismiss each one of these protected grounds throughout history. They're all very effective in prevent protected grounds from being recognized and enforced. Mkdw talk 01:51, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
Holy fucking cow. That is some Grade A wokester bullshit right there.
Its PR stunt as WPF is anything but...that.
Is it a stretch to say Wikipedia just disappeared right up its own asshole in a shameless attempt to appeal to the minorities who already make up a massively disproportionate ratio of the community?
Only if that was possible and Wikipedia dispeared then we did all be better off. But they do anything to recrut folks to edit their websites for free. If they were forced to pay they did own quite lot folks plenty of money. (hey maybe this would solve the vandal problem)
Wikipedia has long been the natural home to those minorities who don't feel normal, to the point that the whole TERF issue will probably still yet cause massive reputational harm, as the supposedly diverse and inclusive Wikipedia tries to cope with the fact it STILL has a thoroughly miserable record in being attractive to the rather large proportion of the world who identify as straight, born a woman, living as a women, where race/ethnicity/nationality/religion is entirely irrelevant.
Yet the platfrom was invented by bored white male (Unless our villan Jimmy Wales is gay and trans) so its funny if itse now seen as home and all these minorites and TERFs.
Rather than focus on that massive problem, the ever woke Wikipedia community wants to add USERNAMES to the long list of protected characteristics? You will note they said "we" a whole bunch there, and specifically referred to the "reaction in the community".
Have these folks never heard about trademarks? I'm pretty sure you could get your username trademarked and all the protection and rights that come with that.

I will say that I definitely think a lot of the wokester outrage over this issue is completely fake, all part of the Wikipediocracy plot to take down a long time enemy, Scottywong, but I don't think there can be any doubt that these are Mkdw's genuine beliefs right here, and they are shared by a whole bunch of other Wikipedia editors.
I have long found that Wikipediocracy is not worth much if anything consider its far to soft on wikipedia considering we are on this bord Wikipediasucks and that sucks has subforum on here. Also qickly stopped using wikipediocracy the moment I found this forum as this forum covers the problem of wikipedia far better than that other website
And since they are a Wikipedia Administrator, you better believe they have the power to enforce them.
Wiki admins do whathever they want if it doesn't suit them to ban folks for these issues they wont.
Not only is this yet more proof that Wikipedia is far more about being a haven for radicals and driving not reflecting world politics, it is also pretty good proof that Wikipedia would suck at being a global encyclopedia if it ever actually decided that was its primary mission.
Radicals you say?, I don't know but I have long found that wikipedia is save heven for idiots and and endless stupidity and thats why Wikipedia is so caught up in its own bureaucracy, which makes you wonder is wikipedia even an Encyclopedia. ? If they cut down on that they might have good change of succeeding but it would require top level Editors-in-chief and staff but thats a fantasy.
Yes, it is of course rather obvious that if Wikipedia wants to be a global effort it is a good thing that editors from different parts of the world who speak different languages can, if they have the ability, contribute on different language editions

The key word there is ability.

If you are one of these people who comes from a foreign culture but is quite capable of reading and writing in English, then it isn't remotely controversial, let alone -ist, to state that you should be aware that the vast majority of your peers on the English language Wikipedia can only read English and only parse the Latin alphabet.
Ability is one thing but it also take the will, and knowledge pretty sure the folks out there that think Wikipedia is an exclusive English based website so they don't bother with cheacking if it has other languages. So they edit the English wikipedia if they bother or nothing at all. So its hillarious when the English wikipedia has more on topics that don't orginates within the boarders of primiary English speaking countries. Such as the English wikipedia having more "info" on Icelandic topics than the Iceland wikipedia.
Yes, of course it is terribly colonial of me to refer to non-English speakers and things as foreign, but you can frankly go fuck yourself you snowflake. One of the benefits of being so good at conquering the globe, is that we get to have English as the global language. Being a communist regime isn't the only reason Mandarin Wikipedia is dwarfed by English Wikipedia.
You know ideologies and view of badness of wikipedia go crossborders, I don't think colonialism has any bearings on the size of the English Wikipedia compared to Mandarian chinese wikipedia, Its rather the fact as I said preivously that WPF foundation was founded in USA and is primary an American website, if Mandarian wiki was bigger then English WIkipedia then Jimmy/Jimbo would needed to be asked some serious questions
We are Rome, and everywhere we stand, is Rome.
So should I redirect Rome to Wikipediasucks on wikipedia, then ? after all we want infos on wikipedia to be factual :P
That said, we are all grown ups, we can put aside matters of who won what wars and whose culture is the best to come together to build a shared global knowledge. Or at least, as history has shown quite well, ironically through the hugely multicultural society the is Britain today, we don't need to let wokester bullshit stand in its way. Indeed, dare I say it is the wokesters who are erecting barriers and preventing cross cultural understanding. If it's racist to say Islamic culture is sexist, don't be surprised to see you don't have an awful lot of English speaking Islamic women wanting to create excellent articles for English Wikipedia.
Humans cannot share anything thats the only reason why copyright laws and trademarks laws exist we did be better of if they didn't. As there is no original idea that can go around in this day and age. Every human culture has same or similar traits so there is no multiculture far as i'm concerned just human stupidity, relgion is a good example. If these women and women in general wants to only cite relgious scripture in their writings then there is no point going forward as there is nothing more backward than religion.
Furthermore, if you are a member of the Wikipedia movement, you will appreciate how crucial it is to the basic function of communication and collaboration, that editors are able to recognise and indeed use editor's usernames. Yes, you can copy and paste foreign character names, but if the names are barely even recognisable to you, that is very risky.
I don't see any risks or problem here.
I want to stress here that I am deliberately talking about the functional part of a Wikipedia editor's identity, their username, not their signature. Because unsurprisingly, a classic Wikipedia fudge around this issue is to advise users with foreign names to use a Latin character signature. Quite odd that they don't see that as a hugely offensive act of forced assimilation. You can be brown, but only on the inside! Kindly use your slave name around these parts, boy.
Of course we use latin charcters when writing in language that use Latin characters. Other wise it looks just silly. Quite frankly I think UN should require its members to use Latin Characters only. That would make translations easier.
It says a lot about Wikipedia that none of the billions of dollars of donor money being spent on "inclusion" ever got directed toward this issue. It was spent only on allowing editors to move seamlessly between language editions using one single username, which is of course what has meant this issue has become more of an issue, as more and more foreign looking usernames started to appear in English language Wikipedia.
Thats just PR on their behalf as Jimmy/Jimbo Wales is white middle aged dude. he could choose to ban Latain charcters if it shuited him.
The hilarious thing is, there is an inclusive way to solve this issue that also meets the needs of an ENCYCLOPEDIA. Allow users to choose their primary username in the alphabet of their home wiki, and on their first instance in visiting a foreign edition where their user name will baffle and confuse, they are required to enter a pseudonym in the local language.
Technically speaking every langugage that use latin alphabet could be considered a home wiki for that user technically so most logical again that they start finding the English version.
This becomes their local username, not their signature, with technology handling the rest, up to and including allowing local signatures to reflect their chosen name if they are so fragile the cannot bear to be in a foreign land without their native identify on display (and tbf this probably applies more to an asshole like Beeblebrox venturing into foreign lands than it does in the opposite direction, as fanciful as it is that an ignorant bastard like Beeblebrox even knows a foreign language, since as one of the English Wikipedia Supreme Court he is in real life unsurprisingly a white man occupying a foreign land colonised by his forefathers, and in whose honour he treats its native inhabitants with open contempt).
Not sure what fictional characters have to do with anything. Since latain Alphabet is exclusive used in Americas (north south), Europe, (Sub-Sahara Africa) and Oscenia I dont think any of such usernames will stand out like sore thumb.
If they cannot do so, it shall be seen as a sign they do indeed lack the WP:COMPETENCE required to edit that edition. Sorry not sorry.
You are asking for why to much as INcompetence is all that wikipedia knows.
This is no doubt too simple for Western Wikipedia. They love their grandstanding and virtue signalling and leftist cancel culture far too much.
these big companies do anything for PR when they don't actually belive in anything than $. The moment they don't is the moment they stop.
Oh well.

Just another thing that will devalue the brand among the young (who sure as shit understand the practical complexities of global communication better than any dumbass wokester Wikipedian) and thus hopefully hasten their death.

Stupity and beureocracy is whats killing wikipedia nothing else.

Post Reply