The European Parliament, Article 13

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ericbarbour
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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by ericbarbour » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:18 pm

News flash: the WMF posted something about Article 13 on its blog, and it ended up on Slashdot (the classic Wikipedian "we think this is news DON'T IGNORE US" cult crap). Note the lack of comments on the blog post--I bet someone did post criticism, and they frantically deleted it. Very vague blog post otherwise, apart from the "protest this" command to the "faithful".
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/06/29/e ... wikipedia/
https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/06/2 ... edium=feed

Good chance some of these are WP/WMF insiders, screeching for blood. Schumcks.
Feels to me he's spot on. Google, Wikipedia, Slashdot should all geoblock the EU if this law goes through. Lets see how long it lasts.
Lol good luck boycotting Europe.

Anything they don't like is "fascism".
Probably not "communism", the "People" is of no importance *at all*. It's more like a form of textbook fascism.
Unpossible! We're told time and again it is only the dictatorship that is the USA that can restrict speech and promote hate, and that the anointed in Brussels are only pure and holy and love freedom for all...

And yawn. If this story had been posted on Slashdot in 2007 it would have attracted 10 times as much interest and 10 times as many comments. Both Slashdot and Wikipedia have alienated so many people, their public faces have been declining into irrelevance. And if Google and other search engines weren't pointing people to WP content routinely (and if Google were not feeding the WMF money), the WMF would be done for.

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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by ericbarbour » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:30 pm

Yep, but I simple don't buy this crap from Jan Gerlach. He is a lawyer from Switzerland. The country where it is forbidden to take a shower ar to floss the toilet in a apartment after 22.00 hours by law, , where in many parking garages it forbidden to park your ca backward, bacause otherwise the wall get dirty, on every meter and behind every traffic light a camera is, and where the fines are double tfrom the rest of Europe, and this Jan Gerlach should believe the crap he is writing himself? Give me a break! Of course he knows it's crap, this is European regulation and if there is a country where they are paranoia about the internet it is Switzerland! In a hotel you get a code, what works till you check out and not a minute longer!

Oh Christ, don't start me on Switzerland. Their number one priority is sucking money out of the rest of the world. The tax-free "secret banking" thing for rich assholes failed, so now they're soaking tourists -- and each other. And remember that two of the meanest assholes in Wikipedia history, Gwen Gale and Sandstein, are both Swiss (the latter an attorney).

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/cost-of-living/29178118

I don't have to post anything from the book wiki about "Gwen Gale" because there's an old blog:
http://gwengalerevealed.blogspot.com/

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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by AndrewForson » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:42 am

ericbarbour wrote:Note the lack of comments on the blog post--I bet someone did post criticism, and they frantically deleted it.

There is ample evidence that the WMF blog editors regularly remove or reject critical comments, at least if you believe the postings at another site. There is an argument that it would be worth critics posting comments more often to the WMF bog in spite of this policy of routine censorship -- it at least gets the WMF into te habit of explicitly ignoring views from outside the bubble, promotes their cognitive dissonance and entrenches them in their arrogance. That has to be good for the split between the colunteers and those who batten off their free labour.

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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:13 am

Comments or not, it is complete unclear to me how they want to change anything in the EU without any political power. Because the EU is not representing the European population, the EU is representing the European country's. And that is huge difference. And, I told it many times before, we are so used to very strict regulation in Europe, nobody will protest.
Even if the European parlement would reject this proposal nothing will change, because they will make a new proposal what is almost the same. They simply can't ignore the country's who want this strict regulation because of the structure of the EU. It are all complex deals between the country's created in the back and black rooms in Brussels. This proposal is as it is, daar helpt geen lief moedertje meer aan. (no sweet mam can help you anymore.) Nothing will change, doesn't matter how many blogposts WMF writes. With or without comments.

And tell me, how, how can the European Parlement follow the will of a group how has hardly any support in Europe? They have only one MEP in the European parlement!
Last edited by Graaf Statler on Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:13 am

What also is wearth to tell is, they are talking about protests in Bulgaria, Estonia, but those countries have not any influence in the EU. The piper makes the tune and that are rich country's like Germany, Austria, France, The Netherlands, Finland, etc. The formal communistic country are most times complete ignored in the EU, nobody takes them serieus. The European country's are far from equal, and a Bulgarian protest or a protest from Estonia protest means nothing.
They don't even heave a clou about the EU there in SanFan!

And Gerlach has to know this, because Switzerland is close related to the EU, and is even a Schengen country. Because it is surrounded by EU country's. So, most times they follow the European regulation and rules. And in this way in practise Switzerland is almost a EU country!

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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:49 pm

I wonder who it is who really believes the WMF blog attracts more readers than the combined views of WP:VPP and Jimbo talk. The only reason they post it on their blog, is so it can be linked on sites like Slashdot and Reddit.

Doubtful they can generate the required public outrage in time via that strategy, not least because those places are both incredibly lacking in true reach, while at this same time being incredibly noisy and busy, with way too many bright and shiny things for the average user to care about pretty deep issues like this. They need to convince the key people, the actual legislators, and not simply by bombarding them with messages from crazies who Luv Wikipedia but clearly don't even know what they're protesting or why.

So suck it up Wikipediots, for your past crimes and general attitude, you're gonna get regulated, and more will surely follow. Perhaps you have overestimated your perceived usefulness to the world? Do informed and responsible citizens, even global digital citizens, truly give a shit if Wikipedia has to ensure copyright is respected? Do they care if the burden falls on them, not the people whose work is being ripped off?

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Graaf Statler
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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:02 pm

CrowsNest wrote:So suck it up Wikipediots, for your past crimes and general attitude, you're gonna get regulated, and more will surely follow. Perhaps you have overestimated your perceived usefulness to the world? Do informed and responsible citizens, even global digital citizens, truly give a shit if Wikipedia has to ensure copyright is respected? Do they care if the burden falls on them, not the people whose work is being ripped off?

O that is for sure! More will surely follow, this is only the begin. I think this new regulation gives European country's enough room to block sites what contain to much copyvio individually. It is only a matter of time till the copvio bots are running, and if that happens the EU fines of millions follows soon.

But that Wikipedians mustn't shoot the piano player, must not cut the head of bringer of the bad news. These are decisions taken by the politicians we have democratic chosen in Europe. We expect from them to do there work, and one of there jobs is to protect the intellectual property. And that is the only thing they are doing, because everything is already protected for years and years.
And that is the huge misunderstanding, these law's, regulation were always there. There is nothing new, only they are are going to maintain them.
And that is the only thing what is new, so where are they against? And why can't they express themself anymore?

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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by sashi » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:48 pm

Graaf wrote:These are decisions taken by the politicians we have democratic chosen in Europe.


:lol: As one (of many) who cannot vote in the land where I live, I would speculate that perhaps this theory of a Brussels democracy -- rather than the lobbyocracy most of us see -- may be slightly overrated.

Remind me again just how many Oxi / Non votes were respected (?)

speaking of voting in foreign elections... when Erdogan won the election (on the strength of the expatriate vote?), I thought Turkey had won the world cup. Last I'd heard such a ruckus in my hood was when Algeria won a world cup match...
Last edited by sashi on Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:53 pm

sashi wrote:
Graaf wrote:These are decisions taken by the politicians we have democratic chosen in Europe.


:lol: As one (of many) who cannot vote in the land where I live, I would speculate that perhaps this theory of a Brussels democracy -- rather than the lobbyocracy most of us see -- may be slightly overrated.

Remind me again just how many Oxi / Non votes were respected (?)

Also the rotten, corrupt decisions what are taken by the EU, are taken by the politicians we have chosen, Shasi.
That is a fact. If we all chose tomorrow Wilders and Boudet, The Netherlands is yesterday out of the EU. Just to give a example, not as a advice.
It's up to us who we chose, and not to the Americans, that is the point I want to make.

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Re: The European Parliament, Article 13

Post by ericbarbour » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:42 pm

AndrewForson wrote:There is ample evidence that the WMF blog editors regularly remove or reject critical comments, at least if you believe the postings at another site. There is an argument that it would be worth critics posting comments more often to the WMF bog in spite of this policy of routine censorship -- it at least gets the WMF into te habit of explicitly ignoring views from outside the bubble, promotes their cognitive dissonance and entrenches them in their arrogance.

Knock yourself out. I'm still struggling with that damn book. As soon as the processed update articles come back I'm going to take a stab at assembling a sorta-coherent narrative about WP's early years. Leaving out a bunch of post-2011 material including the exit of Sue Gardner and arrival (and quick exit) of Tretikov. As amusing as people find all that crap, it came after the Wiki-Arteries hardened.

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