CrowsNest on Reddit

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Abd
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Re: CrowsNest on Reddit

Post by Abd » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:33 pm

Meanwhile, CrowsNest has posted again on Reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/True_WikiInAct ... iki_wanks/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... omination)
Look at the extraordinary lengths they go to, to debate an issue of virtually fuck all importance. It's a mercy this bollocks is purposefully limited to seven days, and you can see why.
It has been a long standing criticism of Wikipedia since its boom phase (07/08), that it simply became a bureaucratic clusterfuck. And it's dumb shit like this which proves it still is, and probably always will be.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding here. How does one make notability decisions if there is no responsible editorial bureacracy? AfD is not bureaucracy, it is an adhocracy, and phenomenally inefficient, and always has had that potential. Attempting to use specific cases to establish precedent to reduce the level of wasted effort was also resisted as "instruction creep."

By the policies and guidelines, a subject is notable if there is adequate coverage in reliable sources. The nomination was weird, making no deletion argument. The delete arguments appear to create a new standard, something like "actual importance", but the sources consider her "of interest," dismissed as "human interest." Wikipedia depends on sources that have an investment and responsibility to avoid uninteresting junk. Policy is clear here, and so is consensus. I predict the article will be kept.

Wikipedia is unreliable, and that is a result of naive, inefficient structure, that can enable bias and abuse, but it also works, to a degree, and using a "coverage in RS" standard was superior to making subjective notability decisions for each article subject. If I were sufficiently interested in it, I would look at the contributions and interests of each !voter. But I'm not.

There are many problems with AfD process, but this one was not that difficult, for anyone who understands the rationale behind policy.

CrowsNest seems to be more interested in contempt. His headline:
Space teen bamboozles Wiki wanks
Nobody appears to have been bamboozled, other than by their own misunderstanding of notability policy.

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Re: CrowsNest on Reddit

Post by ericbarbour » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:36 am

Abd wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:33 pm
There is a fundamental misunderstanding here. How does one make notability decisions if there is no responsible editorial bureacracy? AfD is not bureaucracy, it is an adhocracy, and phenomenally inefficient, and always has had that potential. Attempting to use specific cases to establish precedent to reduce the level of wasted effort was also resisted as "instruction creep."
"Instruction creep"? Hardly. Only at random times was there effort to reduce wasted effort. The WMF is a living monument to waste.

Never assign evidence of a "reasoned process" to insane people. Make that a "mental-illness-ocracy" and then I'd go along.

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Re: CrowsNest on Reddit

Post by Abd » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:22 pm

I made such efforts, back in the day. There were AfDs being created regularly, discussing the same issue, over and over. Almost all the AfDs were turning out Keep, and a simple change to the guideline involving the heritability of notability for national organizations that have local chapters. The change would have made the guideline reflect actual practice. It was rejected as instruction creep. The users who sit on the guideline did not care about actual practice, only what was "right," in their opinion. They certainly did not care about efficiency. But the whole unrestrained and undisciplined wiki process is like that. It was believed that the wiki would simply get better, a very naive idea that might be true if a responsible structure had been created. But "bureaucracy."

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Re: CrowsNest on Reddit

Post by Abd » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:54 pm

another post from Crow'sNest, JackThe Jiller on Reddit.
The creepy old man that owns the Wikipediocracy forum sends his "best wishes" to the lesbian power couple of Wikipedia for their upcoming baby shower
The oroblem is?

Whatever it is, Crow continues demonstrating his contempt. I suppose it might be considered by some "entertaining," but I'm glad for this forum that this kind of extreme content is no longer common here. Selections from his language:
the panty sniffers of Wikipediocracy
wanked themselves into a frenzy
telling her horde of flying monkees (the ones with sharks for laser beams on their monkey dicks)
the wet dreams of all the scummy Wikiassholes
Hating women
they were incels before incels were a thing.
sexually frustrated fools
Fram being an asswipe
they all signed a piece of paper that says don't be asswipes
take a ladyshave to their wrists
collective shit-piggery

The only actual fact was that Zoloft said something nice to Marie Sefidari, but, to be sure, he then linked to a Vilignat post ripping Marie's friend.
The reception on Reddit was not particularly approving, though u/

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Re: CrowsNest on Reddit

Post by Abd » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:13 pm

another post from Crow'sNest, JackThe Jiller on Reddit.
The creepy old man that owns the Wikipediocracy forum sends his "best wishes" to the lesbian power couple of Wikipedia for their upcoming baby shower
The problem is?

Whatever it is, Crow continues demonstrating his contempt. I suppose it might be considered by some "entertaining," but I'm glad for this forum that this kind of extreme content is no longer common here. Selections from his language:
the panty sniffers of Wikipediocracy
wanked themselves into a frenzy
telling her horde of flying monkees (the ones with sharks for laser beams on their monkey dicks)
the wet dreams of all the scummy Wikiassholes
Hating women
they were incels before incels were a thing.
sexually frustrated fools
Fram being an asswipe
they all signed a piece of paper that says don't be asswipes
take a ladyshave to their wrists
collective shit-piggery
The only actual fact was that Zoloft said something nice to Marie Sefidari, but, to be sure, he then linked to a Vilignat post ripping Marie's friend.
The reception on Reddit was not particularly approving, though u/Ond_Tvilling ["Madame Gender"] "did laugh at parts of it." Had I written that, she would have been beside herself over "potty mouth." One of the benefits of her activity is that it became possible to see her true colors -- which I found quite surprising. https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderDesk/com ... ant_troll/

My conclusion, based on evidence,
Ond Tvilling is the evil, lying Minister of Shit.


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Re: CrowsNest on Reddit

Post by Abd » Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:05 pm

Last edited by Abd on Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CrowsNest on Reddit

Post by ericbarbour » Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:37 am

fwiw, all of the Sashi stuff just makes me groan and roll my eyes. I should really put it on the book wiki. But Wikipedia is approaching its 20th anniversary, it's never been more popular, and what would be the point?

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Re: CrowsNest on Reddit

Post by Abd » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:36 pm

Abd wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:05 pm
Corporate culture versus internet culture
This post by CrowsNest, in particular, I found worth reading, even through it is replete with c*n* used with the meaning of "stupid asshole." Especially the cited discussion reveals the deep divisions and contradictions in the community, where the pillars are set aside in favor of . . . of what?

It's not IAR to call an idea stupid, when the one asserting the idea is known.

All ideas are flawed, and "stupid' is actually an ad hominem argument, since an idea is just, in practice, a collection of words or concepts, and no idea is intelligent in itself, hence no idea is stupid either. Stupid is an alleged quality of persons, and calling an idea "stupid" is implying that anyone who supports the idea is "stupid." None of this improves the project, and it is remarkable that pointing out the obvious, that there are many in the community who enjoy incivility as "vigorous debate, " is rejected on the basis "you can't prove it."

As well, it is pointed out that civility is "subjective" as if that means "unenforceable", this being used to reject the obvious, that what is *seen* as uncivil damages community process. Many laws depend on community standards, and the reactions of a "reasonable person," not absolute, objective truth.

I have not yet read that entire ANI discussion.

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Re: CrowsNest on Reddit

Post by ericbarbour » Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:49 am

fwiw I'm trying to talk Sashi himself into writing a summary of his WP treatment for me. He's the best person to do it--IF he keeps it short and semi-readable. There are quite a few articles on the book wiki that no one will ever read thru due to excessive length/detail.

Blubbering on Reddit doesn't really count. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but EVERYTHING on r/wikiinaction could vanish tomorrow. Get it down on paper or at least pass out copies to uninvolved persons.

If Crow wants to do the same, I'm willing to help out.

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