The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by ericbarbour » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:13 am

Flip Flopped wrote:What do you think of Bernie? He wouldn't release his taxes.

It would be nice to have Bernie pushing for certain things, but he really doesn't play nice with his fellow Democrats. And he's old which is not good for anyone proposing real reform. Changing things in DC requires someone with superhuman stamina, an obsession with winning, and a massive war chest--thus it never happens.

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by Flip Flopped » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:22 pm

This thread has quieted down because a deluge of information has come to light (and Larkin explained he'd be absent).

Here's where I'm landing as I try to make sense of what's going on in this country: Things are very far from normal. Sometimes conspiracies are real, so on the balance of evidence this is what seems to be going on:

1. It's not just this country. Putin has performed a wide-scale operation to destabilize the West. Farage is an example of a Putin collaborator in the UK. Besides a number of European elections like France, Germany, and the Netherlands, Putin has interfered in the governance of multiple countries (e.g., assassination attempt in Montenegro).
2. The U.S. is under attack. It's an information and propaganda war, but there's more. Some U.S. billionaires (the Koch brothers and the Mercers) who have more money that Gates helped get Trump and his cronies into office. Some U.S. corporations are also involved. There are kickbacks to Kushner and others from Saudi Arabia and Russia. It's unclear to what extent the corrupt U.S. billionaires and Saudis are or are not coordinating with Putin's destabilization of the U.S. The Saudis may be entirely separate from the Russians.
3. Trump sold U.S. foreign policy to Putin.
4. I think it's very likely that some key members of Congress have been corrupted by Russia.
5. I personally think it's likely that propaganda is being used to stoke hatred and violence against weaker elements in society and that this is coordinated. Steve King is a racist Congressman who has praised Putin. A Democratic challenger was planning to run against King and the rumor is that she had to drop out due to credible threats of violence.

This all sounds utterly insane, but I think there's enough evidence to believe 1-4 are true and that 5 is more likely to be true than not. There's more, but grasping just this much is shocking. Most Americans haven't begun to realize how far from normal things currently are.

Either via impeachment or free and fair elections we may be able recover.

What do you guys think? Do you think 1-4 are true? How far do you guys think this has gone?

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by Qwerty » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:05 am

Flip Flopped wrote:This thread has quieted down because a deluge of information has come to light (and Larkin explained he'd be absent).

Here's where I'm landing as I try to make sense of what's going on in this country: Things are very far from normal. Sometimes conspiracies are real, so on the balance of evidence this is what seems to be going on:

1. It's not just this country. Putin has performed a wide-scale operation to destabilize the West. Farage is an example of a Putin collaborator in the UK. Besides a number of European elections like France, Germany, and the Netherlands, Putin has interfered in the governance of multiple countries (e.g., assassination attempt in Montenegro).
2. The U.S. is under attack. It's an information and propaganda war, but there's more. Some U.S. billionaires (the Koch brothers and the Mercers) who have more money that Gates helped get Trump and his cronies into office. Some U.S. corporations are also involved. There are kickbacks to Kushner and others from Saudi Arabia and Russia. It's unclear to what extent the corrupt U.S. billionaires and Saudis are or are not coordinating with Putin's destabilization of the U.S. The Saudis may be entirely separate from the Russians.
3. Trump sold U.S. foreign policy to Putin.
4. I think it's very likely that some key members of Congress have been corrupted by Russia.
5. I personally think it's likely that propaganda is being used to stoke hatred and violence against weaker elements in society and that this is coordinated. Steve King is a racist Congressman who has praised Putin. A Democratic challenger was planning to run against King and the rumor is that she had to drop out due to credible threats of violence.

This all sounds utterly insane, but I think there's enough evidence to believe 1-4 are true and that 5 is more likely to be true than not. There's more, but grasping just this much is shocking. Most Americans haven't begun to realize how far from normal things currently are.

Either via impeachment or free and fair elections we may be able recover.

What do you guys think? Do you think 1-4 are true? How far do you guys think this has gone?


Yes your arguments are utterly insane. I guess Trump is such a maverick you just don’t have any way to absorb him, so you panic and grab at theories the way someone with a bad cold grabs tissues. I think the video that shows him beating up CNN ringside says it all. The only laws he is certainly breaking are the unwritten ones. Multi-national outfits like CNN will always disown national aspirations that alienate their bigger audience, so they have being throwing punches at him from day one, and they are really pissed that he just keeps shrugging off their best shots. And now he is hitting back. What a dude.

The only conspiracy you need to worry about is the ideological cross-breeding of communism and capitalism, role modelled by Russia and China, and embraced by a whole lot of educated Americans with careers in a global economy, for whom trendy and monetary values are everything. This conspiracy isn’t a fancy plot but something harder to resist - a spreading culture. Trump could be infected too (it is a global epidemic) but he is landing some good punches on the real zombies out there. Meanwhile I am in his corner (so long as I don’t get hurt).

That’s democracy in action.

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by Qwerty » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:59 am

I have just discovered someone who talks a bit like me – David Goodhart. He has just published a book titled ‘The Road to Somewhere’ and I saw him interviewed on the idiot box today. He posits a new division in the socio-political thingummy, between Somewheres and Anywheres. A Somewhere is somebody who identifies with a particular place and its traditions. An Anywhere is anyone who feels comfortable anywhere. Basically the Anywhere brigade is an affluent set of ‘world citizens’ with a growing place in the global economy, and they would happily trade their traditions for a cheaper airline. The Somewheres put their hands on their hearts and sing the anthem with feeling (I am basically paraphrasing Goodhart, or Qwertyphrasing, I guess). Anyway, Goodhart makes the case that this new divide is what complicates the familiar divide between right and left. Pretty obvious really but for some reason neither the Anywheres nor the Somewheres see that far in front of their noses.

I haven’t read the book and he promises that it is actually more nuanced than ‘either/or’. However, I suspect he doesn’t go far enough. He has not yet identified of defined the Nowheres. You might know them better as Wikipedians. It remains to be seen how they are going to impact on the socio-political thingummy, but my theory is they are the union and thus negation of the Somewhere, Anywhere, Capitalist, Communist, Nationalist and Cosmopolitan dualities. They could inherit the earth, or they would if they were somewhere or anywhere on it rather than shooting about it as energy waves.

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by badmachine » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:35 pm

Flip Flopped wrote:Either via impeachment or free and fair elections we may be able recover.


We had a free and fair election and Donald Trump won. Impeachment requires a criminal act, if i recall correctly.

How far do you guys think this has gone?


The anti-Trump people have taken it much too far. Much of the media has been exposed as biased at least, and corrupt at worst. On the plus side, as a result of the recent lies from the media, many people are smarter about consuming media with a critical eye.

Lies like "this is not normal", 'Trump is Hitler/a fascist/etc', and the Trump-Russia "nothingburger" do indeed serve to "stoke hatred and violence", as you said. Despite all these lies (i could list more) he is still moving forward with his agenda and hopefully he will make good on his promise to make America great again.

Whatever people say about him, he is pissing off all the right people (media, Hillary, Dems, GOP, etc).

Hillary lost. It's time to get over it and get behind the president like a good American, imo.

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by Strelnikov » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:36 am

badmachine wrote:
The anti-Trump people have taken it much too far. Much of the media has been exposed as biased at least, and corrupt at worst. On the plus side, as a result of the recent lies from the media, many people are smarter about consuming media with a critical eye.

Lies like "this is not normal", 'Trump is Hitler/a fascist/etc', and the Trump-Russia "nothingburger" do indeed serve to "stoke hatred and violence", as you said. Despite all these lies (i could list more) he is still moving forward with his agenda and hopefully he will make good on his promise to make America great again.

Whatever people say about him, he is pissing off all the right people (media, Hillary, Dems, GOP, etc).

Hillary lost. It's time to get over it and get behind the president like a good American, imo.


Joe Scarborough, of all people, is walking away from the GOP.

They don't let cameras into the White House Press briefings.

His Mexico wall is going nowhere, which is nice because it will fuck up the ecology of the border desert region, also it would cut the Kumayaay Indians (and other tribes near the border from California to Texas) from their northern Mexican relatives.

I knew Trump was a scammy used-car-salesman type from childhood, long before his time on The Apprentice....I didn't vote for either major candidate so I'm not one of those "Hillary wuz robbed" people, but it's obvious after six months that we're not going to get much out of Trump, even though "his" party has total control. It doesn't help that his son has gotten Alan Futerfas (NYC lawyer who defended the Gambino, Colombo, and Genovese crime families) after he admitted to meeting that female Russian lawyer.
Still "Globally Banned" on Wikipedia for the high crime of journalism.

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by Strelnikov » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:16 pm

And now Sean Spicer is gone.

Quote:

....Let us take a moment to ponder, with due wonderment, that it took until the third week of July for Sean Spicer to identify a “major mistake” in the Trump White House worthy of vehement disagreement. Ladies and gentlemen, presenting Anthony Scaramucci—the bridge too far!

There’s no real need to speak of Spicer’s legacy in complicated terms. He was not good.

In all likelihood, his mediocre legacy as a White House flak-catcher wasn’t entirely his fault. Trump was well known to have tortured Spicer with the sort of endless and tactless nitpickery he once reserved for the winners of his beauty contests. He’d ripped Spicer for the lackluster energy he put into his defenses of Trump’s tantrum-fueled reign—and for good measure, our long-tied mogul-in-chief also groused about Spicer’s sartorial choices. When Spicer’s underling, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, began to appear with greater regularity behind the press room’s lectern, Trump’s senior adviser explained the change in a terse text to The Atlantic’s Rosie Gray, that read, “Sean got fatter.”

Nevertheless, Spicer was the author of his own bedevilment on many occasions. He was the one who offered the suggestion that Adolf Hitler was less of a monster than Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad because the leader of the genocidal Third Reich did not “sink to using chemical weapons.” This obscene talking point no doubt caused a good deal of unrest among the ghosts of those who left their scratches in the walls of the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chamber.

It was also Spicer who ran down a New York Times reporter for failing to properly identify his birthplace in an article, only to turn around and refuse to set the matter straight. “Leave it to Sean Spicer to request a correction and obstruct it in one breath,” wrote the Washington Post’s Eric Wemple.

- "Spicer, Racked", Jason Linkins, The Baffler blog
Still "Globally Banned" on Wikipedia for the high crime of journalism.

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by ericbarbour » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:53 pm

Funny thing about this: having the GOP in charge will be good for me personally in some ways (lower taxes and hopefully less regulation because I'm a self-employed businessman) and not good in others (if they kill off the ACA, which dramatically decreased my health insurance costs). Obama wasn't that great as a Democrat anyway--he applied a decent fix to healthcare, although it was not optimal. But he also raised income and other taxes on the middle class in a doomed attempt to pay down the deficit and prosecuted some government whistleblowers. Plus he was generally pro-business in ways that were not widely reported. He continued the standard Bush-era attitude toward antitrust enforcement; usually hands-off. If any monopoly needs to be broken up today, it's the "new" AT&T. But no.

Jury's still out on what Da Donald has done "for" America, I have to agree with Badmachine that he's getting very rotten treatment from many media people. But then he's done some questionable things all by himself. As I said in the radio interview, the Trumpies don't need any help to embarrass themselves.....but that's Washington for you in general, from now on you can't have anything but petty and foolish "leaders". Don't forget to blame the boomers!

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by suckadmin » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:53 pm

Strelnikov wrote:And now Sean Spicer is gone.


And now so is the Mooch.. wow that was fast!

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Re: The (new, straight-from-scratch) Trump thread

Post by Flip Flopped » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:41 am

suckadmin wrote:
Strelnikov wrote:And now Sean Spicer is gone.


And now so is the Mooch.. wow that was fast!
He couldn't do the fandango, I guess.

The Mooch: Do not let me go!
TRUMP: I let him go.

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