Gavin McInnes

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Gavin McInnes

Post by The End » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:20 am

https://abcnews.go.com/US/racist-street ... d=56687836

What the heck is wrong with Gavin McInnes? How has the co-founder of Vice Media become such a complete idiot and created an extreme U.S. far-right group? I've never even heard of "The Proud Boys."
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Re: Gavin McInnes

Post by Strelnikov » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:42 am

The End wrote:https://abcnews.go.com/US/racist-street-fighters-anti-government-militia-understanding-proud/story?id=56687836

What the heck is wrong with Gavin McInnes? How has the co-founder of Vice Media become such a complete idiot and created an extreme U.S. far-right group? I've never even heard of "The Proud Boys."


Gavin McInnes was always this guy, he just hid it well until Dubya Bush was in office.

From that Baffler article I linked to:

In 2003 McInnes told New York Times reporter Vanessa Grigoriadis, “I love being white. . . . We need to close the borders now and let everyone assimilate to a Western, white, English-speaking way of life.” In the interview—rumored to have lead, ultimately, to his separation from the company in 2008—McInnes denounced the idea of sexual consent and suggested women want to be dominated. Such faux-edgy assertions amount to a rank misogyny McInnes recently made explicit in a spot on HuffPost Live. During the proceedings, he called a female panelist a “fucking idiot” who, along with the audience, refused to understand that women “naturally want to” stay at home to have babies instead of entering the workforce. Such views would be easier to dismiss as just another of Vice’s triple-gainer brand of anti-anti-hip postures if the company’s underlying dismissal of women’s intellectual capacity weren’t such a freely trumpeted feature of the site—and one reason the print magazine is banned from the occasional bookstore and college campus.

***

Remember, the print version of Vice is free.

As for the "Proud Boys" themselves, it's McInnes taking ideas from frat houses, biker gangs, Fight Club and turning them into a far-Right goon squad. The name of the group comes the 2011 stage version of Disney's Aladdin which had a song cut from the film titled "Proud of Your Boy". From this Daily Dot article:

To join the Proud Boys, would-be members must go through a four-degree initiation process. The first requires publicly outing oneself as a Proud Boy. The second involves taking a beating from other members until the aspiring Proud Boy can name five kinds of breakfast cereal. This initiation degree also requires a vow to abstain from masturbation. To complete the third degree, the new member must get a Proud Boy tattoo. [It's a cruddy hipster sailor "tat"; the real Sailor Jerry is rolling in his grave. - S.]

The fourth and final degree was added much later by McInnes and is a clear step away from the prankishness of the other rites. It hints at the right-wing bent that the hyperpartisan culture in Trump’s America has served to amplify. The fourth initiation requires that a prospective Proud Boy serve the “cause,” as McInnes suggested, by engaging in a physical brawl with members of “antifa,” the loose-knit far-left and anarchist anti-fascist movement.

....According to McInnes, there is one fundamental tenet of the organization: upholding “western chauvinism.” As such, the Proud Boys exist almost as a reprise of the Men’s Rights Movement and an expression of neo-masculine traditions and toxic masculinity. Proud Boys say they want to “venerate the housewife” and return to the gender roles of the early 20th century.

The Proud Boy Facebook group, which has amassed over 20,000 followers, stipulates values that also include being pro-life, advocating for free speech as well as drug legalization, gay rights, and the Trump administration. The group also claims to stand against Islam, Nazism, and feminism. As of September 2017, the group’s page prominently displays a banner reading “proud boys are not alt-right.” The banner also appears on the official Proud Boys website.

Edit: Forgot to tack on this little bit of stupidity, McInnes fighting an MMA guy in a ring in 2009, just because.


Or his racist baby:


Proud Boy street violence (with goon talking to Alex "crazy eyes" Jones on InfoWars). Yes, they wear black and yellow Fred Perry polo shirts possibly as a reference to the Anarcho-Capitalist flag (AnCaps, like Libertarians, have been going fascist in the last five years).
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Re: Gavin McInnes

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:11 pm

The Proud Boys, huh? It's a men's club who hate everyone except gay men? They're not militants, they just wanna hang out together in their snazzy polo shirts and drink beer and do some drugs?

Do the math people. This is the gayest club to have existed on planet Earth. And I include in that, G.A.Y.

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Re: Gavin McInnes

Post by ericbarbour » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:48 pm

The End wrote:What the heck is wrong with Gavin McInnes? How has the co-founder of Vice Media become such a complete idiot and created an extreme U.S. far-right group? I've never even heard of "The Proud Boys."

Now you know the ugly little secret of Vice Media. It's why you won't find ANY mention of McInnes on any Vice website. They refuse to even report on his activities as "news", because then they'd have to admit he was a co-founder.

You can read more about McInnes on Dramatica than you can on Vice (or Wikipedia for that matter).
https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/The_Rebel_Media
https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/VICE

As for the "Proud Boys" themselves, it's McInnes taking ideas from frat houses, biker gangs, Fight Club and turning them into a far-Right goon squad.

Still cracks me up when angry-manchild types point to Fight Club as an "influence". Chuck Palahniuk (who is gay) has repeatedly disclaimed all connection his book might have to these alt-right and "we're not alt-right" outfits.

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Re: Gavin McInnes

Post by Strelnikov » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:16 am

As for the "Proud Boys" themselves, it's McInnes taking ideas from frat houses, biker gangs, Fight Club and turning them into a far-Right goon squad.

Still cracks me up when angry-manchild types point to Fight Club as an "influence". Chuck Palahniuk (who is gay) has repeatedly disclaimed all connection his book might have to these alt-right and "we're not alt-right" outfits.


It was the '90s and I think Palahniuk was thinking along the lines of "anarcho-primitivist" John Zerzan (who was better-known then), because Tyler Durden's plot ("Project Mayhem") is supposed to collapse capitalism and bring society back to a hunter-gatherer level. We don't get to see the outcome (after the novel and film end) but I'm assuming that the world does not lurch back to the Stone Age and suddenly the New Deal or a sequel is roaring back in full force, fuck-you-Koch-Brothers. At any rate the point of mentioning Fight Club is that these guys (Alt-Righters, Nazis, etc.) don't know how to read critically or they latch on to the bits they find cool, a syndrome you can call "Verhoven's Starship Troopers Disease", from the fact that people didn't seem to understand that adaption of Robert Heinlein's gung-ho Space Marine novel was social criticism and satire....which is why the soldiers wear German WWII caps on base, Neil Patrick Harris' intelligence officer character looks like he's in the Gestapo, and the United Earth spaceship crews dress in grey Waffen-SS style uniforms with black collar tabs. Also at the end of the movie you see child soldiers in the ranks of Earth's forces in an in-film recruitment ad, meaning that all the slaughter of starship troopers throughout the film is already wearing Earth down, much like Germany in the final years of World War Two. And Paul Verhoven had made straight WWII movies before that point, such as his 1977 film Soldier of Orange; it's just all the snark and satire underlying RoboCop (which Verhoven directed) had gotten into his bloodstream. That might also be why the starship trooper armor vaguely looks like RoboCop's outer shell. Because they can't see the true intentions of the film or book or are reading against the author's aims, they fall prey to the sort of mistakes the author is decrying. You notice when a story is right on the nose, people don't try to copy the protagonists or antagonists - there were never any gangs of Droogs like in Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange or Stanley Kubrick's film adaption of the same name, and with Kubrick's film you get to chose between Alex's hatted-jockstrapped squad, Billy Boy's long-haired fake Nazis, or the Napoleonic Droogs from the Ludavico treatment film series. They are all figments of a decade's imagination about how street gangs might dress in the future or when the rules change - the reality was and is pretty boring; the Baseball Furies and the Gramercy Riffs from The Warriors (1979) are far more interesting-looking than the Crips and the Bloods. The Baseball Furies wear facepaint and baseball uniforms, hiding their bats in the clothes while the Riffs dress in karate gis and their second leader Masai dresses completely in black and never takes off his mirrored sunglasses.

I think McInnes wanted to build a sort of preppy crypto-Nazi goon squad and it's not going as flawlessly as he had planned - he's screaming at journalists:

.....Jason Wilson, a reporter for The Guardian, contacted McInnes to ask about the violence at the rally [the Patriot Prayer "Freedom and Courage" event in downtown Portland, Oregon at the end of last month. - S.] McInnes fumed at him: “You would have to be completely blind, which I think you are, to not see that fight for what it is, which is antifa fully armed attacking Joey Gibson and Joey Gibson’s friends.”

When Wilson asked him whether sharing the video widely and promoting it also promoted violence, McInnes called him a “fucking weak human being,” a “vile little pussy,” and a “tepid cunt,” then ranted about “the media class” who “sit there picking fights, call everyone a Nazi, and then when someone dares defend themselves, and someone else says ‘yay’, you say ‘well you’re promoting violence.’”

At that point, McInnes hung up.


"Patriot Prayer" is a group of Right-wing street-corner ranters in Washington State founded in 2016 by the Joey Gibson that Gavin is talking about above. So the violence at this event is the Proud Boys tag-teaming with Patriot Prayer to fight Antifa members who were there with counter-protestors. Patriot Prayer is this decade's version of the Protest Warriors from the Bush II era who would carry their own placards mocking anti-Iraq war groups and chant. They vanished after the stock market tanked.



This thread needs some larfs.
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Re: Gavin McInnes

Post by ericbarbour » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:31 pm

Strelnikov wrote:It was the '90s and I think Palahniuk was thinking along the lines of "anarcho-primitivist" John Zerzan (who was better-known then), because Tyler Durden's plot ("Project Mayhem") is supposed to collapse capitalism and bring society back to a hunter-gatherer level. We don't get to see the outcome (after the novel and film end) but I'm assuming that the world does not lurch back to the Stone Age and suddenly the New Deal or a sequel is roaring back in full force, fuck-you-Koch-Brothers.

Which is also hilarious. If our society actually DID collapse, millions of people would die very quickly. Political chaos, corruption, violence, the collapse of support systems leading to starvation and uncountable numbers of refugees therefrom moving to and fro. The "Proud Boys" would be among the first to die, because they are mostly fat white gamer boys who could not "live off the land" and are too pathetic to become criminal gangsters. "Dude, I thought this would be like GTA and there would be all this cool violence! But the stores don't have any Doritos or Mountain Dew and the electricity's out and the water is off and I'm dying of thirst! This sucks, doood!"

You notice when a story is right on the nose, people don't try to copy the protagonists or antagonists - there were never any gangs of Droogs like in Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange or Stanley Kubrick's film adaption of the same name, and with Kubrick's film you get to chose between Alex's hatted-jockstrapped squad, Billy Boy's long-haired fake Nazis, or the Napoleonic Droogs from the Ludavico treatment film series. They are all figments of a decade's imagination about how street gangs might dress in the future or when the rules change

It would not be The Warriors or Clockwork Orange or even a sarcastic Verhoeven film -- it would be instant Nigerian slums all over the world. Vast slums. And mass graves stretching to the horizon. (Except maybe Switzerland--they would dynamite all the tunnels and bridges. That might delay the inevitable for a while. Once the crowds of Europe found out that the Swiss were sitting on food and supplies, Switzerland would be overrun.)

The takeaway: neither the extreme right nor the extreme left really "gets" satire. They are more similar than they are different.

I think McInnes wanted to build a sort of preppy crypto-Nazi goon squad and it's not going as flawlessly as he had planned - he's screaming at journalists:

Hah. He obviously doesn't know what the fuck he wants or is doing. That's your lol for this thread, I presume.

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Re: Gavin McInnes

Post by Strelnikov » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:26 pm

Strelnikov wrote:
It was the '90s and I think Palahniuk was thinking along the lines of "anarcho-primitivist" John Zerzan (who was better-known then), because Tyler Durden's plot ("Project Mayhem") is supposed to collapse capitalism and bring society back to a hunter-gatherer level. We don't get to see the outcome (after the novel and film end) but I'm assuming that the world does not lurch back to the Stone Age and suddenly the New Deal or a sequel is roaring back in full force, fuck-you-Koch-Brothers.

Eric Barbour wrote:
Which is also hilarious. If our society actually DID collapse, millions of people would die very quickly. Political chaos, corruption, violence, the collapse of support systems leading to starvation and uncountable numbers of refugees therefrom moving to and fro. The "Proud Boys" would be among the first to die, because they are mostly fat white gamer boys who could not "live off the land" and are too pathetic to become criminal gangsters. "Dude, I thought this would be like GTA and there would be all this cool violence! But the stores don't have any Doritos or Mountain Dew and the electricity's out and the water is off and I'm dying of thirst! This sucks, doood!"


I think something got lost here - the "Proud Boys" don't want a total societal collapse, they just want to live in a racist America with hot girlfriends who make them sandwiches. It's a dumbass dream, but it's the dream of every Klansman - yearning for a society they never really lived in, and the Proud Boys and Internet National Socialists want to live in a right-wing variation of the 1950s. Tyler Durden's plot is against consumerism and his way of sinking it is by blowing up the credit card data centers, not dams, power plants, etc. That's why I don't think it would work, because we lived through the housing bubble/credit crunch and capitalism survived it. That's the point of Durden's dream in the book/film - it's a lot of secret organization for a half-baked hope that we don't see fulfill itself.

John Zerzan was/is against how advanced capitalist societies create hollow people, damage the planet, etc. Here is an interview from 2000 with Zerzan and Derrick Jensen (I don't know who he is). You can get a bunch of Zerzan's books from Feral House, a publisher of esoteric works. If anything, he reminds me of Jerry Mander, the guy who wrote Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television in 1978, but the argument is against industrial society and consumerism and not just TV as the media arm of it.

Where McInnes gets his ideas from Palahniuk is that there is a training regimen in Fight Club for the Project Mayhem people, who had already been trained to let out their aggression in the underground fight clubs, and it's this snarky boot camp. The idea of having plebes get punched while they try to name breakfast cereals isn't Chuck Palahniuk, but somebody trying to copy the style of that book and failing. Also, "they are mostly fat white gamer boys" doesn't describe the Proud Boys I've seen - they look like gym rats who found a guru in beardo Gavin McInnes. It will probably all blow up, because the kind of goons that wind up in white supremacy groups usually tick each other off, look at Ashley Rae Goldenberg's ex-boyfriend Matthew Heimbach: went to jail after a tussle in a double-wide trailer, his Traditionalist Worker's Party imploded and went defunct, he's stuck with legal bills and will have to start another organization from scratch if he wants to play at being an American Führer again.

The takeaway: neither the extreme right nor the extreme left really "gets" satire. They are more similar than they are different.


The "horseshoe" political theory I've never agreed with (here is a solid critique of it) - some people have come up with the "fish hook" theory instead to describe how centrists seem to get along with the far-Right.

It's really hard to find Hitlerites who can do satire; they can gaslight for days, but real comedy is beyond them. Look at Ben Garrison - 4chan's "Zyklon Ben" nonsense pretty much broke his brains and he's this ranting Trump brownshirt now; his politcal cartoons are funnier looked at critically then taken at face value. Meanwhile Boots Riley's Sorry to Bother You is in theaters right now; and this satire of the Hell of living in the Bay Area was directed by a man who has described himself as a Communist.
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Re: Gavin McInnes

Post by ericbarbour » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:16 am

Strelnikov wrote:I think something got lost here - the "Proud Boys" don't want a total societal collapse, they just want to live in a racist America with hot girlfriends who make them sandwiches. It's a dumbass dream, but it's the dream of every Klansman - yearning for a society they never really lived in, and the Proud Boys and Internet National Socialists want to live in a right-wing variation of the 1950s.

The only way they can turn the clock back is by tearing the whole edifice down. It's a rotten edifice anyway, but if it does fall, the suffering will make World War II look like a "minor setback".

Also, "they are mostly fat white gamer boys" doesn't describe the Proud Boys I've seen - they look like gym rats who found a guru in beardo Gavin McInnes.

Those are the ones we SEE. McInnes knows how to manipulate media, albeit he's no "genius".

The takeaway: neither the extreme right nor the extreme left really "gets" satire. They are more similar than they are different.

The "horseshoe" political theory I've never agreed with (here is a solid critique of it) - some people have come up with the "fish hook" theory instead to describe how centrists seem to get along with the far-Right.

That's all well-known and we're wasting time arguing the subject here. Just suffice it to say that extremists of all types often resort to the same kinds of violence to get their way (and it usually fails).

Look at Ben Garrison

Jesus, he's still at it? Ha ha. What a poltroon. He used to rant about how Ron Paul was a hero and the Republicans AND Democrats were rotten corporate shills, and now he shills for The Donald. Hypocrite. Does anyone actually buy his cartoons for reprinting? I've never seen them anywhere other than places like r/the_donald, 4chan and Kiwi Farms.

PS, guess who created his not-very-nice Wikipedia article? Payne Smith, aka Jinkinson, aka "IntoThinAir". Consummate Wikipedia leftist with many years of experience --- in using Wikipedia to shit on people he doesn't like. Guess I should feel a little sorrier for Ben.....but it's difficult.
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Re: Gavin McInnes

Post by ericbarbour » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:18 am

Oh, just btw, the FBI started to ask "embarrassing questions" or something about the Proud Boys--so McInnes promptly bailed. COWARD.

https://gizmodo.com/gavin-mcinnes-proud ... 1830601611

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Re: Gavin McInnes

Post by Strelnikov » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:37 pm

ericbarbour wrote:Oh, just btw, the FBI started to ask "embarrassing questions" or something about the Proud Boys--so McInnes promptly bailed. COWARD.

https://gizmodo.com/gavin-mcinnes-proud ... 1830601611


Of COURSE he fucking bailed - he's a hipster racist; "when the going gets tough, the hipster is GONE." He gave up on Street Carnage, his Vice magazine after Vice magazine, he'll give up with YouTube when that gets demanding, etc.

The truest hard-core of neo-Nazis are the dorks and squares - it's not a game to them.
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