The Rambling Man

[CrowsNest]

Now at ARCA.

Oh Worm, you silly billy.....

Civility is one of the most difficult points of Wikipedia, I don't think anyone disagrees that instances of incivility are easy to point out and while I haven't yet reviewed the AE requests (which I'll do over the next few days) I am unsurprised that a "civility restriction" hasn't worked. They historically been unenforceable as incivility is a reaction to other frustrating behaviours. I'm not saying it's the right reaction, but it's hard to sanction someone for being rude, when the reason they were rude is apparent and often worse than the rudeness. I'll await statements from those involved and the rest of the community and reply further after the weekend. WormTT(talk) 15:53, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

You really should have looked into the complaints before you said this, because the only reason TRM is ever rude, is when people disagree with him. There are certain people desperately trying to claim it is not, TRM included, and are instead trying insist that the underlying cause is people doing demonstrable harm to Wikipedia's reputation for quality (stop laughing), which provokes TRM into being an asshole simply because he cares so damn much about Wikipedia (seriously, stop fucking laughing).

Nobody who prioritises his own ego and image over the community as much as TRM does, really cares about Wikipedia. He maybe cares insofar as it gives him a sense of power and purpose to be running around being a nasty little bully, but that is hardly the same thing.

These people are either lying to save TRM's skin, and of course TRM has no issue with lying about what other people do to avoid what he has coming to him, or they haven't bothered to read the discussions. Pick any of TRM's current enemies, there won't be any evidence they want to harm Wikipedia. You will find the common thread - disagreement with TRM, and often over really fucking lame stuff, and TRM then escalating things to the point his target, and a bunch of other people, think he's being a fucking dick. At which point, he says something childishly moronic.

TRM approaches all these disputes the way a child would. Unfortunately for Wikipedia, it has long had a love of tolerating immature users, as they are often also absolutely addicted to Wikipedia. Adults, certainly the well adjusted ones, have jobs. They certainly got no time for this shit. TRM has plenty of time for it. Some of the stuff this whiny little bitch keeps harking back to, dates back literally years.

Dweller is the person who gives the game away. He argues these violations wouldn't see any other editor blocked, so why are they "harassing" TRM? LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE in other words. It truly is pathetic. Is he too dumb to appreciate that an editor currently subject to an ArbCom restriction, and who has several blocks and a desysop in their history, is not entitled to be treated as if they were any other editor? Or is he hoping other people are too dumb to realise this?

This probably won't go anywhere. ArbCom doesn't like tough decisions. Deciding how to reign in a misbehaving child, particularly one who has figured out his parents are pushovers, is a tough decision for them.

TRM is a great fan of statistical evidence of failure. Well, how many individual civility violations has he been guilty of, in his entire Wikipedia career? You may think me crazy to suggest it is easily as high as 900. Or one every other day he has been an editor, to put it another way.

If you are surprised, consider that estimate is how many it would be if he was being incivil only 1 in a 100 times he posts to a talk of project page. Anyone who follows him, knows that is an extraordinarily generous assumption.

[CrowsNest]

Well, Opening Regalia is fair stumped as to what to do.

All those people who voted for her to be an Arbitrator, this is what you voted for. Loads of opinions, most of which don't solve any actual problem on Wikipedia, so she has no clue as far as a possible way forward. In her appointed role to find ways forward in seemingly deadlocked situations. Don't say you had no idea this is who you were voting for, because it was fucking obvious.

I'm half wrong, she does have a suggested solution....

TRM is required to remove all adjectives and adverbs from his posts?

Even as a joke, it reveals the problem here.

IT'S NOT YOUR FUCKING JOB TO KEEP FINDING EVER MORE RIDICULOUS WAYS TO KEEP PEOPLE LIKE THE RAMBLING MAN ON WIKIPEDIA AT ANY COST

Everything you have tried to ensure compliance, has not worked. There is a dispute over his level of compliance, so those who are claiming there isn't one, are in direct violation of WP:CIVIL, ironically (don't ignore the good faith positions of your fellow editors - hence all the ridiculous attempts to explain away Sandstein's position as bad faith). That includes Administrators, people like 331dot, so whether you like it or not, this is now your problem to solve. You took it, so you do it.

How hard is it to even say the words, maybe we have no other option but to offer him an all expenses paid six month holiday?

As some dude named Jimmy Wales once said, sometimes people who show admirable commitment to and passion for Wikipedia, they just aren't capable of doing the basics required to get shit done on a volunteer driven collaborative project, at least not without doing immeasurable (and often very measurable) harm in the process. People have literally said, I will not work with this man, fuck Wikipedia if that means quality suffers. Literally nobody has said they will retire in outrage of he is banned, even his supporters concede he would not be blameless in ensuring that eventuality. As hard as it is, in such a situation, as Jimmy told his disciples, you have to, kindly and with respect, show them the door.

You people, the FUCKING ARBITRATORS, derive your unique powers from that which was granted to you by Jimmy back in the never never time, to use in his stead, while he busied himself in Davos. Because he stupidly thought other people might be able to take on the vital role he previously had, to stand up for the principles and vision he had, Wikipedia ended up with you fools being in charge. He hoped it might work.

Boy was he wrong.

We can't attribute this to a stereotypical view of gender either, plenty of men have previously displayed this inability to be decisive, and indeed it is a couple of woman who have previously tried, and they are hated for it, far more than any men who have done the same. Arguably it is their propensity to consider the health of the family which moves them to act, even if at great personal cost. But Opabina is one of those women who succeeded on Wikipedia in spite of their gender. Basically indistinguishable from the men. Here we have the proof, yet again.

[CrowsNest]

TRM claims his grandad died......

Just been informed by the police that my grandad died today, so I may be editing sporadically while I sort stuff out.

Let's all pause for a moment, to reflect.........on the fact that to leave that message all he had to do was change the contents and background colour of an existing message box on his talk page, and of course remove the header, "False accusations of the month". That's some Freudian shit there.

So yes. We are all shocked at this sad news, delivered at 20:22, 24 November 2018. But hey, wait....

Thank you all, sad times. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:45, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Alex Shih says there was a consensus among Main Page admins that the "errors" or matters TRM raised at ERRORS were not always exactly "errors"? as if that's somehow relevant to any of this. But just a quick glance at WP:TRM will show that of the 879 reports I've raised there since mid-July, 815 of them have been resolved, i.e. a 90% hit rate. Now please show me any single other editor in the history of Wikipedia who has a better ratio. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:23, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

All I can say is, lucky old Grandad, to have such a devoted grandson. Barely an hour after hearing the news, he's recovered enough to want to let the Wikipedia community know of his sad news. Not only has he not edited sporadically since this news, he's found time to do what he clearly enjoys best, battling his enemies and boasting about how he is saving Wikipedia. Even though he said that it wasn't relevant. Luck old Grandad, to be set aside for such important work.

If this was you, would you be doing this? Is this how you would react to your Grandad dying? If so, shame on you.

Not to mention, he must have lived to a ripe old age, if TRM is as old and wise as he often claims. An interesting detail - why was he informed by the police? Don't tell me, he was killed riding his motorbike. Come on.

Although if the level of concern TRM is displaying here, you can understand how he might have been the sort of old person whose death is only discovered by police. I'm British, so I can tell you this isn't classic British resolve on display. It's debatable whether a British person of TRM's age would even share this sort of news to strangers on the internet. Keeping calm and carrying on means just that.

The Wikipediots are of course, all falling for it. None of them wants to admit psychological manipulaton is TRM's main skill, his weapon of choice in his wiki battles. Would be be above falsely claiming his (prob ably already dead) Grandad has just died, to try to ensure this issue just goes away? We of course only need to read TRM's own words (and certain people's desperate rear-guard actions) to see what he fears it is all about. "Tighteing the noose." An unfortunate turn of phrase, in hindsight.

If so, it was worth it, because it has had an effect......

The Rambling Man says on their userpage that they're attending to a family bereavement. Suggest we pause discussion of this ARCA for a little bit until they return. World won't end if it's delayed a few days. -- Euryalus (talk) 05:22, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

I tell you what - you suspend proceedings, when TRM shows he doesn't have time to attend to it. For examp!e, by not having time to edit Wikipedia at all, like a grief stricken person, or even someone who didn't really love their Grandad but is somehow still the one to be "going through my grandfather's effects" this evening (Monday 26th), wouldn't have. He was obviously mindful of this sad task ahead of him, managing to fit in 70 edits today (Monday 26th) from first light. I wonder if he got the day off work? He must be feeling better, it beat the 55 edits he managed the day after the news.

All told, Grandad seems to have only mattered to TRM enough to take the Saturday evening he learned of the news, off of Wikipedia. He was back on the hamster wheel by mid morning Sunday.

If it were me, if I planned to lie about my Grandad dying, that's how I would have done it. Saturday night is always a great night to pretend to not be interested in Wikipedia, that you might have other things on your mind. And who doesn't love a lie in on a Sunday?

What I would not give a flying toss about, on the day I knew I was going to be sorting through my dead Grandad's stuff, was MOSDATEFORMAT. Speaking of which, most people I know do not normally get around to that for at least a week. You wouldn't even have had time to arrange a funeral by Monday morning.

You may think me cruel and callous by even suggesting this is a ruse. Well, all I can say is, if you don't think there is at least a chance this was a lie, told to forestall or even prevent his favourite hobby being majorly restricted, then I have to wonder if you've spent any time following what this scumbag does, how he treats people, how his mind appears to work. And if you do and see no such possibility, maybe what's wrong with you is the same thing that is wrong with him.

But hey, we all deal with grief differently. Maybe there are some people out there whose first thought on hearing such sad news, is to inform the Wikipedia community, even though he holds most of it in contempt. And who knows, maybe there are people who want to escape from the real world at this sort of time by plunging into a digital world, to do things you know makes people mad at you.

That could very well be TRM. And if so, that is rather his problem in a nutshell.

He's not going to change, and it may only be his tragic untimely death that resolves the problem of what to do about his insistence that he is not the problem. Because he would not be the first person to learn that the issues they claim are existential threats to Wikipedia, magically go away when they are booted off the project. Or die.

[CrowsNest]

NewYorkBrad wants business to continue, death or no death....

Statement by Newyorkbrad
The Rambling Man's level of energy and dedication to the project are widely appreciated. More specifically, there is broad appreciation for his commitment to maintaining the quality of items linked from the main page, although there are often sharp disagreements as to how those standards should be applied in specific instances. (These arise on the ITN and OTD pages as well as on DYK as noted in the request). Any user-conduct issues arise not so much from what he says but how he says it.

A couple of years ago, The Rambling Man committed to be a bit less sharp-tongued on-wiki. For several months, he kept that commitment. He made exactly the same types of substantive comments that he made before that and has made since, but unaccompanied by personally directed remarks that stir bitterness and distract attention from the substance of what he has to say. I still did not always agree with his every !vote on ITN/C and the like, but the man was a pleasure to work with. I wonder whether, if asked politely, he would be willing to try that experiment again. He would be just as effective in what he is trying to accomplish, if not more so, but without the distractions that can't be fun for him and which I know are not fun for the rest of us. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:31, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Here we see the genius of the dead Grandad ruse. At this emotional time, who dares ask TRM, no matter how politely, hey dude, remember that time when you weren't an asshole, can we try that again? Pretty please.

Oh, and for a lawyer, this dude really doesn't exercise due care over his words. If this was an experiment, then it failed. Who repeats the same experiment, with the same conditions, and expects a different result? The critical difference you could argue justified a repeat, TRM's fear that a second failure to reach the basic standards expected of everyone should mean he is finally asked to leave, simply isn't there. We're already talking about a guy who has been through one Arbitration case, and was justifiably sanctioned. The Eric Corbett precedent (the honourable NewYorkBrad presiding) means you get at least three turns on the ghost train, and you still get to leave when you decide.

[CrowsNest]

Presumably Grandad TRM hasn't even been buried yet, and his devoted Grandson has found time for just the 300+ edits since Monday night. A not insignificant number of those edits have been attempts by him to deflect/divert/distract/divide/dissuade/demoralise/denigrate people at this now apparently permanently extended clarification request.

Grandad isn't even in the ground yet, you would presume, and dear devoted RamblingGrandson has hit on the genius idea of repeating the stunt he pulled at ERRORS, basically taking his ball home before he could be ejected from the game, because they were all being mean to him. Poor misunderstood Rambling Bastard.

Anyway, we were talking about how TRM is grief stricken. Monday night, as you will remember (or maybe TRM did not), was the night he said he was to undertake the sad task of "going through my grandfather's effects". It can't have been a very moving affair, as TRM found time to edit Wikipedia at 18:58, 19:09, 20:04, 20:24, 22:16, 22:38, 22:57, 22:59, 23:01, 23:41, 23:43, 00:21, followed by a whole series of edits until 02:02.

Before you say it, before you even think it, believe it or not, TRM definitely wants us to believe he spent that evening sorting out his dead Grandad's shit.....

I was up until 2 a.m. sorting stuff out, still more to do. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:46, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Still more to do? The rest of the fucking house I imagine, he could barely have emptied one drawer on this night.

He must have found Grandad's last will and testament in that drawer, judging by this fucked up edit.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =870790745

Your dead Grandad would have wanted you to buck up and carry on your wiki battles? Seriously? I mean, you actually told him you were this kind of loser? Is that what he died of, shame?

Speaking of which, we are getting more details about how Grandad met his end though.....

It was sort of unexpected and yet not the biggest surprise.

Because that doesn't sound made up, does it?

Very conveniently however, it seems TRM's dead Grandad is going to keep him occupied for just long enough for all this shit to blow over......

It will not be fully resolved for at least a month or more (complicated stuff)

We are also now informed, Grandad was 92. Seems like the sort of age where death is never unexpected, and where the only thing that requires a month, is selling his house and/or executing his will. Neither of which would presumably be left to his internet addicted forty-something jobless Grandson who never loved him. You leave that to sons/daughters and solicitors.

And yes, need you even ask, the Wikipediots are still buying this shit. If they weren't so gullible, TRM wouldn't be able to get away with what he does, would he?

[Dysklyver]

I dunno really. If one of my grandads/uncles died it is rather unlikely I would mention it on-wiki or that it would in any way effect the amount of time I spend editing.

I expect maybe a day or two off to attend the ceremony. So if absolutely necessary, just stick up a generic "persona issues" semi-wikibreak template, but really who is gonna notice a day or two away?

Really no need to go on so.

[Graaf Statler]

I dunno really. If one of my grandads/uncles died it is rather unlikely I would mention it on-wiki or that it would in any way effect the amount of time I spend editing.

I expect maybe a day or two off to attend the ceremony. So if absolutely necessary, just stick up a generic "persona issues" semi-wikibreak template, but really who is gonna notice a day or two away?

Really no need to go on so.

I don't know much about grandads, Arthur. But about almost every member of my family you can write a book, something Barbara Trapido did with Frankie & Stankie by the way. That book is about my family, you must read it.

And my ganddads where no exception. My grandad from my fathers site went to England, came back just before the war, and died just after the war, and my granddad from my mothers site left his family when my mother was a kid and went to South America. And was married six times, and even seven if his last wife had not hit him with a pancake on his hat because of the last flirt.
My mother had half sisters and brothers all over the world who I never have met, she really hated the man, just like my grandmother did. I have seen him one time in my live when he was invalided. My mother always said he had a stroke because of that pancake, but I am not sure it is true.

[Dysklyver]

I dunno really. If one of my grandads/uncles died it is rather unlikely I would mention it on-wiki or that it would in any way effect the amount of time I spend editing.

I expect maybe a day or two off to attend the ceremony. So if absolutely necessary, just stick up a generic "persona issues" semi-wikibreak template, but really who is gonna notice a day or two away?

Really no need to go on so.

I don't know much about grandads, Arthur. But about almost every member of my family you can write a book, something Barbara Trapido did with Frankie & Stankie by the way. That book is about my family, you must read it.

And my ganddads where no exception. My grandad from my fathers site went to England and died just after the war, and my granddad from my mothers site left his family when my mother was a kid and went to South America. And was married six times, and even seven if his wife had not hit him with a pancake on his hat because of the last flirt.
My mother had half sisters and brothers all over the world who I never have met, she really hated the man, just like my grandmother did. I have seen him one time in my live when he was invalided. My mother always said he had a stroke because of that pancake, but I am not sure it is true.

When I was 12 or 13. I did a more or less complete family tree of both sides of the family. In the end it featured over 1600 people, most of which were not so interesting, but included some knights and to my knowledge at least two people from that tree have wiki articles. The number of people was chiefly due to the size of the families, with nine kids being pretty much the norm the number of cousins etc grows exponentially the further back you go.

Anyway, although it is organised as a looseleaf file, there is definitely enough for a book.

[CrowsNest]

This is truly sad...

That underpins the point that the toxicity is around DYK and those regulars who seem to be denial that there are myriad problems there and those of us who clearly see these issues and refuse to be silenced by the regulars. That is the point here. I think my grandad referred to it as "people in glasshouses". The Rambling Man (talk) 12:02, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Rather than admit he made the whole thing up, now he's invoking poor old Grandad's wisdom from beyond the grave to help his cause.(although to be clear, it is highly likely he still hasn't even been buried yet, and not just because he is imaginary).

Still, it is very convenient that poor old Grandad used to say really really common phrases. I wonder if he ever said, "Shut the fuck up, you whiney little bitch".

[Dysklyver]

This is truly sad...

That underpins the point that the toxicity is around DYK and those regulars who seem to be denial that there are myriad problems there and those of us who clearly see these issues and refuse to be silenced by the regulars. That is the point here. I think my grandad referred to it as "people in glasshouses". The Rambling Man (talk) 12:02, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Rather than admit he made the whole thing up, now he's invoking poor old Grandad's wisdom from beyond the grave to help his cause.(although to be clear, it is highly likely he still hasn't even been buried yet, and not just because he is imaginary).

Still, it is very convenient that poor old Grandad used to say really really common phrases. I wonder if he ever said, "Shut the fuck up, you whiney little bitch".

I bet, maybe something like:

That clearly shows the point that these editors are causing toxicity around the dramaboards and those regulars who seem to be denial that there are myriad problems there and those of us who clearly see these personal attacks and refuse to let it go unchallenged. That is the point here. I think my late grandad would just say "Shut the fuck up, you whiney little bitch". The Rambling Man (talk) 14:01, 01 March 2042 (UTC)