Vigilant!!!

For serious discussion of the "major" forum for Wikipedia criticism and how it fails.
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Graaf Statler
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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by Graaf Statler » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:41 am

First, Juicy.
At one moment after that SanFanBan out of bleu I got from a chapter and ORTS guy named EdodeR a weird, incoherent email. with all kind of rants I simple didn't understand.
I asked him what was going on, and as answers I got again a mail with again incoherent rands, and even one with Jullie is jodenvolk.
It is very hard to explane to English readers why this is a serious anti -semitic insults in Dutch and a crime if you say such things. But it is.
So I said be careful my friend , or you will meet my lawyer.
The answer was the corruption of the name of my lawyer in a German Death camp.

Well, of course I called the next day my lawyer, and he said I think it should by wise if you take anything with you and we have a talk.
And ask that guy to ring me if he doesn't believe you are who you claim to be and if he doesn't believe I am your lawyer. What he didn't do.
So far the story how a lawyer got involved.

I don't know if it is the same in your country, but in Holland in this stage it is normal to say nothing anymore without the permission of your lawyer in public. So, I hope you understand I say nothing from here on because and it is me not allowed to answer your question. I say no no, no yes, I say nothing. Also not about Randy.
=================================================================================================

But in general spoken, in international criminal law cases in Holland the prosecutor prosecuted, not I and he can even do that without any charges if he takes the matter seriously.
He can be informed by the police, by other officials, by no matter who.

It has not to be me, but it can be me, for insane in name of me by my lawyer.
Hypothetical of course.
If some Dutch official has read what both gentlemen or others have done to me he or she can inform the prosecutor. The prosecutor can even start a trail without a extradition treaty. He has unlimited state recourses.

What happens now for instance in the MH-17 trail. The prosecution service has used social media to invite some suspects for a trail.
They didn't show up but the trail simple has started.

And if someone is convicted at the end of the trail and it is serious, so not for stealing a bicycle, they ask a other state for your extradition or they find a creative solution and pick you up with a private jet.

Has this happend with computer criminals? Yes. A Dutch hacker ended up in a American jail in this way. He had never been in America .

Visa versa for sure is also posible and no, the American army doesn't help you because daily people extradited convicts are send abroad.
The American state doesn't help you, a American judge has a look if the request is fair and legal ok and if it is in order you are arrested and the American police put you on the plane. If you was not already put in jail before.

Hope this answer is helpful, and if you still have any question feel free to ask.

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ericbarbour
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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by ericbarbour » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:55 am

Is Vig still ranting incoherently about Abd and Nathan Larson?.......checking.......yep......

https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiInAction/c ... e/fl53p06/

NO ONE on Reddit is paying ANY attention him. So why does he keep logging in there?
#BbbGate

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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by Strelnikov » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:37 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:55 am
Is Vig still ranting incoherently about Abd and Nathan Larson?.......checking.......yep......

https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiInAction/c ... e/fl53p06/

NO ONE on Reddit is paying ANY attention him. So why does he keep logging in there?
Because he's a zombie in George A. Romero's Dawn of the Dead - he hangs out at the galleria mall because of ancient rotting memories that the place counted for something when he was alive. Put him out of his misery with a round to the brain.
Still "Globally Banned" on Wikipedia for the high crime of journalism.

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Abd
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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by Abd » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:40 pm

ericbarbour wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:55 am
Is Vig still ranting incoherently about Abd and Nathan Larson?.......checking.......yep......
https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiInAction/c ... e/fl53p06/
NO ONE on Reddit is paying ANY attention him. So why does he keep logging in there?
I think he got a tap on the shoulder on Wikipediocracy. There hasn't been a post to the Sucks/Abd thread since Mar 19. However, he has been active on Reddit. His profile, my coverage since the end of December. People who let someone like that into their space end up believing some of it; that clearly happened with his "work" on Wikipediocracy. He lies profusely, and what isn't a complete lie is routinely and drastically exaggerated.

He has no care or concern for other users, he is only about maintaining his image as top dog. This entire sequence arose out of the Jimmy Wales AMA on Reddit. The ViliGnat was totally nailed first. He had an earlier shitpost, and he was asked if he was Patrick Byrne. I responded to that:
20:30:42 20 Dec 2019 Abdlomax: WOVigilant appears to be a well-known, highly aggressive troll, Vigilant, mostly active on Wikipediocracy. No, not Patrick Byrne. Vigilant will present whatever embarrassing fact or allegation he can find, in as negative a way as possible, and make some up to boot. And he persists, year after year, obsessed and useless. Unless you like this kind of crap.
Vigilant started up the WPO thread December 29, and on Reddit he began the attack December 30, with this
Nobody should ever listen to anything that Abd aka Dennis George Lomax says.
He's a serial nutter who has been kicked out of every venue he's ever participated in.
So he started tracking my Reddit comments and replying to all of them with trolling. It's now up to 235 comments. It's obvious: he must win, he must have the last word, and that nobody is showing that they buy it -- other than the Smith brothers -- doesn't faze him. He has acknowledged his goal is trolling, "winding up" his targets, truth is not a value for him at all. He has no restraint.

He's begun calling me a "pedo" or "short eyes," prison slang for pedophile. On a nice day, he calls me an "enabler of pedophiles," though no examples are given of me actually "enabling a pedophile" -- what does that mean, supplying one with fresh meat? or providing a recommendation for a pedophile as a day care provider? Arguing that Pedophilia is Good? Obviously, I've never done anything like that.

Apparently, it means discussing the legal, social, and medical realities of the disorder (and of child molestation, which is a distinct subject, much more important than pedophilia), which I've done.

I've known Nathan Larson for over a decade -- from Wikipedia --, but I didn't "enable him" to do anything except play a game in prison that I sent him. Nathan has never been legally accused of pedophilia, but as a long-term troll -- someone who deliberately provokes others, often with the "truth," he created the impression, and that's what I've written. So he is responsible for the reputation he has and the damage it caused him (including being unable to gain custody of his daughter without a legal battle he could not afford.)

The truth as I know it, though, is that he has never shown an actual or active sexual interest in children, he has talked about it, often vaguely (and if one is vague about "are you a pedophile?" many -- including some journalists -- will assume this is an "admission." He has never been charged with any offense involving children, and has never been charged with any offense involving child porn. But he has been reported for it to authorities many times, because he created a collection of legal photos of children (generally provocative fashion shots) specifically to troll people he was arguing with. His point was that they were legal, -- and his opponents stupid -- but the people he was arguing with assumed that this was his "stash," "proving" he was a pedophile.

So even if I had enabled him to do something, it would still not be "enabling a pedophile." But the ViliGnat doesn't care about truth, he only cares about mud to toss, something that might get people riled up.

What I actually did, years ago, was to confront the ViliGnat over his accusations of pedophilia on the part of others. The point was always the evidence and whether or not there was an actual hazard for children. Child Protection Policy was really about protecting the reputation of the WMF, not about actually protecting children. And pointing that out is not "enabling pedophilia."

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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by Graaf Statler » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:56 pm

Abd wrote:He's begun calling me a "pedo" or "short eyes," prison slang for pedophile. On a nice day, he calls me an "enabler of pedophiles," though no examples are given of me actually "enabling a pedophile" -- what does that mean, supplying one with fresh meat? or providing a recommendation for a pedophile as a day care provider? Arguing that Pedophilia is Good? Obviously, I've never done anything like that.
That pedophilia claim was from the first moment on absurd!
Abd and I had also our problems in the past, but I never disrespect the person Abd.
It's sounds familiar to me.
Finding a nickel on the street and thinking there must be a million in ground, a behaving what I have often seen om wikipedia.

They start digging and digging and digging till the centre of the earth and further.
Because that nikkel is a hard evidence there must be a treasure in the ground.
And in that process the most rediciles evidences are brought up and the most absurde conspiracy theory's are build on total quicksand.

They are a kind of aunt Any who believe every word what is written in the tabloids. Yeh, that is how they look.
Ever told about my late aunt Any? No? I think she lives on on wikipedia in the form of mister Viligiant.

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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by Abd » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:38 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:56 pm
That pedophilia claim was from the first moment on absurd!
Wikipedia lede:
Pedophilia (alternatively spelt paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
However, the word in popular usage deviates drastically from that: Merriam Webster
: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
specifically : a psychiatric disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child
"Perversion" is subjective,
(2) sexual behavior or desire that is considered abnormal or unacceptable.
"Is considered" is the flag. It is opinion, not fact about the thing itself. To understand this, it will help to look at Harris Mirkin (Wikipedia) , "The Pattern of Sexual Politics: Feminism, Homosexuality and Pedophilia". The abstract:
Until recently sex and gender issues were thought to be biological or natural rather than political. The feminist movement largely changed perceptions of gender, and the gay and lesbian movements significantly altered conceptions of sex, so that what were once seen as permanent moral standards are now viewed as historical and political constructions. As views of these groups have moved towards social constructionism, perceptions of child sexuality have become more absolutist. Current attitudes towards child sexuality and representations of it resemble historical attitudes towards women and homosexuals.

This article argues that there is a two-phase pattern of sexual politics. The first is a battle to prevent the battle, to keep the issue from being seen as political and negotiable. Psychological and moral categories are used to justify ridicule and preclude any discussions of the issue, and standard Constitutional guarantees are seen as irrelevant. The second phase more closely resembles traditional politics as different groups argue over rights and privileges. Feminist and gay/lesbian politics have recently entered the second phase, while pedophilia is in the first.
From a psychiatric disorder which is actually uncommon, it becomes something far more common, "sexual fantasies," or any "attraction," or "desire," whether or not acted upon. It is as if someone looking at a pile of money and "lusting after it," is therefore a "klepto." But desire for money is not a Mirkin Phase I topic, where reactions like that will abound.

When I was young, "homosexuality" was clearly a Phase I topic. It was not mentioned in polite company. "Homo" and "queer" and "faggot" were deep insults. Homosexual practices were considered deeply disgusting and homosexuals had no protected rights.

This is the point Mirkin made in his paper. He was amused by the dramatic reaction, because it was a demonstration of what he was describing.

That paper is not covered accurately on Wikipedia: positions are ascribed to Mirkin that he did not express, but that were ascribed to him by others. He was not advocating or legitimizing "pedophilia." He was just describing the social phenomenon, as a sociologist, head of his department at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. A sociologist would not, as a sociologist, advocate change, he or she would describe fact, what exists.

And so, in Phase I, anyone who discusses pedophilia can be labelled a "pedo" or "pedophile enabler," who is or does no such thing, and that habit appears to be acceptable in Wikipedia criticism circles.

... even if the reliably-sourced facts might appear to "support pedophilia." And that linkage of unpopular fact with advocacy is what demolishes Wikipedia neutrality. There are many examples where what is in reliable source, which can be covered with attribution if considered controversial, is not covered accurately, and a minor example is Mirkin himself.

People who edit related articles on Wikipedia are accused of being pedophiles. "Wikipedia is not censored," it is claimed, but it is. As a matter of policy, advocacy on the project of a socially-condemned, is quite properly prohibited, because it will cause disruption. But neutral coverage of what is in reliable source would be completely proper. It all gets dicey if advocacy anywhere, or the appearance of advocacy, can be found.

The article does not support the reliably-sourced claims made about it. To state this on Wikipedia might be "original research," but it is something that should definitely be discussed. There is, as I recall, source by Mirkin denying advocacy, which could be mentioned, authentic self-published sources are allowed in biographies, again if attributed.

But if one takes an interest in the topic, PEDO!!! That is exactly characteristic of Mirkin Phase I.

This all gets complicated because in the popular view, "child" is used, and does not mean "pre-pubescent," nor even "pubescent," it means, "under the age of consent," Which is a creature of law, a social construct, not of nature.

Yet sexuality and attraction are found in nature, and are objectively definable and measurable. Peak female sexual attractiveness is, at least in some places and for many people, below the age of consent, and attractiveness does not respect personal age. Sexual attraction to the opposite sex at optimal age does not have anything to do with the age of the attracted person.

Yet an old person who admits the attractiveness of a young one is called "perverted." If male, a "dirty old man." As if sexual attraction is "dirty." Public conceptions of sex are still stuck in attitudes that arose in the Victorian era.

We prohibit sex between adults and persons under the age of consent as a matter of public policy, and it's complex. Incest is prohibited for similar reasons. It's well-known that people will not admit to their own feelings, will repress them and deny that they exist, if those feelings are socially condemned.

Hence scientists studying this rely on more objective measures than self-report, and what they find, if mentioned, is condemned as "pedophile apology." But pedophilia is a compulsion, and if active, an addiction, which can cause great harm. That it is normal to covet money does not legitimate theft.

I may start a pedophilia topic here. It's dangerous, so I'll look for comment. Accusations of pedophilia are common on Wikipediocracy, the source of much conflict and trolling there.
Last edited by Abd on Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by Abd » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:06 pm

I suspected that the ViliGnat would be unable to resist commenting on this. I was right. He makes the exact point, within minutes.
[quoting the above]
Keep 'explaining' ... I'm sure it assuages all of those concerns people have had about you.
Probability near 1 that Abd has CP and has jerked to it.
There is nothing in the above supporting what he claims from this, it is pure projection, revealing the corruption of his contempt, yet he treats it as PROOF! (Probability near 1!!!).

CP (Child pornography), if involving photos of real children, is highly illegal, incredibly risky to possess (and viewing it generally requires possession on one's computer -- and the authorities are able to subpoena download logs from providers -- and from anonymizing proxies). Someone who views CP would never write about the topic, because, indeed, there are people who will report it to the authorities -- and that is being threatened by the trolls about me -- and others who have been mentioned.

Much less would a pedophile write "pedo apology," they would be much more likely to condemn it, to deflect suspicion. Like ViliGnat?

As to "people" with "concerns," if they exist, they aren't expressing them. Anonymous trolls are not people, they have no right to respect. They pretend to be legion. So we have hundreds of Smith trollsocks on Reddit, hundreds on RatWiki, we have the Vilignat on Wikipediocracy and Reddit, and Katie (only occasionally) on WPO as well.

Anonymous trolls throwing mud from under their bridge, full of their shit, at real people, most of whom ignore them. But some enjoy the flame wars for the lulz, and eat some of that shit-mud.

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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by Abd » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:35 pm

Giraffe Stapler, another anonymous troll, having taken the name as a parody of Graff Statler, our resident grumpy old man, makes the same point as I did, above:
If Abd still has minor foster kids at home, he is playing with fire. Online discussions about the nature of pedophilia tend to look really bad when one is the friend and defender of a known pedophile and rapist.
In other words, not only is he associated with a Bad Person, allegedly "defending him," but he is terminally stupid because it could "look really bad." To label someone as terminally stupid is a standard troll-goal.

Sure "it" could look bad, to an ignorant and reactive non-professional, very rarely to the authorities, who understand social realities and don't yank custody for shallow and weak appearances.

For starters, I have never had "foster kids" in my home. I have had two adopted children -- this is very different from fosterage -- who lived with me for years, and I have had, over the years, with seven children, the others raised from birth -- high experience with child protective authorities.

I have talked with the police about abuse concerns, since I was active in a group where there were some, ah, nutso people, one of whom jumped to conclusions from my report of what was perfectly normal in a context which she understood not at all and called the police, who are legally required to investigate. All this was positive, and I've always thanked the authorities for their concerns. I fully support the mandated reporting laws, they have saved lives and prevented harm.

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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by Graaf Statler » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:27 pm

Martin..........(lot of useless noice).........who defended pedophile rapists.

I back you pardon mister Vigilant? First you was suggesting I am kind of half nazi because I am living in the Netherlands and now I am defending a pedophile rapists?

First a few numbers I have read not long ago in a article about a study about sexual child abuse.

80% of what you call rapist (and indeed are) are not pedophiles. Only 20 % are.
In general we are speaking about granddad's, stepfathers, uncles, trainers and so on. People a child trust, and it start most time with a "game" and the two of us have a secret.
And it also appeared 10% of the adult man have sometimes sexual fantasies about sex with minors, but bring it never in practice.

And before you change your hunting area again to me and start to make even more the fool out of yourself than you already did, no mister Vigilant, I have those feelings not.
It is all very cute, but kittens are also very cute. Or young birds. But no mister, they just like minors no aphrodisiac for me.

And I don't know about what you have now on your mind, but I have other things on my mind at the moment than the typical wiki sex obsession what made the Dutch gender lady's also so hot.
Maybe a good way to pass the spare time most of us have now now we all have to stay at home, but I prefer finish my toy train now. A update follows Sunday, and have a nice day!

By the way, shall I sent you a few rolls of toilet paper to stop your constant diarrheas of total bullshit?
We have enough here in Holland!

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Re: Vigilant!!!

Post by Graaf Statler » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:35 pm

He vig, there has just died a healthy woman 52 year in the hospital near by, 20.000 dead people till now, and Mark Rutte looks very, very worried here.

https://www.ad.nl

This might be also interesting for you what Van Dissel has said and I have heard the situation in New York is alarming too.
https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/is-de-omme ... ~aa94cd8f/


He, vig, do you really believe you are such a amazing person there is at the moment in the world even one person who is interested in your treasure digging to the centre of the earth because you have found a nickel?


Grow up man, face reality, we are gonna die if we have bad luck and you are only shitting about trollopedia matters. Or stay alive with serious lung damage.
How cares now about trollpedia? Or what you are telling of complete bullshit?

No one, bro.

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