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The European Parliament, Article 13 
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CrowsNest wrote:
An EU Directive supersedes any local law. This is one of the costs of being an EU member, you cannot make your own laws. The idea that you are still sovereign because you are making your own laws at the direction of the EU is an untenable farce. Hence Brexit.

The issue here is that Wikipedia was already exempt in the first draft, and they knew it. And yet they still went into campaign mode.

Yes, that is true, but this is not about our local copyright law! That is the huge misunderstanding! And, what many people don't know is the European parlement is far from free, it is dominated by the the rich and northern country's who get in this way most times what they want. Not always, but many times they do.
This decision was only the green light to continuo, and as Dysklyver wrote in his posting it is an instruction for each EU country to incorporate the concept into their own law. And that is the tricky part! Because the process is not finished. The direction is absolute clear, because the EP gave it's approval. But don't forget the Europa Parlement didn't take this decision itself. it was taken after a long negotiations between the different country's. The EP can't take just a decision without consulting the national parliaments. And now again there will be negotiations with the national parliaments, because if one country say no it is no. The national parliaments must prove this regulation, and in this proces there is for sure no space for a exception for Wikipedia.
And in this way the country are independent, not in the way European regulation overrules national regulation. European regulation is a is a very complex proces, and only a little people know this. And for sure Romaine and the complete Wikimedai lobby group didn't know this otherwise for sure they had listen to me and had not trolled out a bare foot legal copyright expert with a SanFanBan at the end!

I think I cross post this posting in WO.

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Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:24 am
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I never said this was the end of the process. But it's a simple fact, where an EU Directive says one thing, and a local law says another, the rules of the club state the Directive has primacy. This has been established and affirmed many times in case law.


Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:19 pm
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CrowsNest wrote:
I never said this was the end of the process. But it's a simple fact, where an EU Directive says one thing, and a local law says another, the rules of the club state the Directive has primacy. This has been established and affirmed many times in case law.


It would of course be simpler if this was a regulation like GDPR was.

European regulation = simple direct effect
European directive = complete and utter free-for-all

... Eurocrats.

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Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:51 am
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I ready tryed it. I realy did, Arthur. I tryed from 2012 till I was golbal banned in 2016 to explane this difference to Romaine and socks like De Wikischim but they simple didn't want to lishen. I was a crackhead idiot, a psychiater had to look after me they said. I had a huge psychiatric problem and even didn't know myself who I was! So it was the best for everybody to SanFanBan me. Great.

But I was 100% right all the time and they where wrong! And how did I know this difference? Because I was a guest on the blog of Yanis Varoufakis from 2011 on! Yeh, where all kinds of experts about Europe who where posting there in that time, so I knew this difference! But that bunch of asholes of a wikilaywers did not!

It is rediciles, this is the second time this happens to me. First I knew exacte where the Eurocrisis was about because of that in that time complete unknown blog, I wrote a article about it what is now legal on Everypedia a week ago, and now this!
I get a wonder elder, beating the complete legal department of WMF! With only three years primery school! Yes, taht is goiing to happen! Statler the wonder elder!

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Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:04 am
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Graaf Statler wrote:
I ready tryed it. I realy did, Arthur. I tryed from 2012 till I was golbal banned in 2016 to explane this difference to Romaine and socks like De Wikischim but they simple didn't want to lishen. I was a crackhead idiot, a psychiater had to look after me they said. I had a huge psychiatric problem and even didn't know myself who I was! So it was the best for everybody to SanFanBan me. Great.

But I was 100% right all the time and they where wrong! And how did I know this difference? Because I was a guest on the blog of Yanis Varoufakis from 2011 on! Yeh, where all kinds of experts about Europe who where posting there in that time, so I knew this difference! But that bunch of asholes of a wikilaywers did not!

It is rediciles, this is the second time this happens to me. First I knew exacte where the Eurocrisis was about because of that in that time complete unknown blog, I wrote a article about it what is now legal on Everypedia a week ago, and now this!
I get a wonder elder, beating the complete legal department of WMF! With only three years primery school! Yes, taht is goiing to happen! Statler the wonder elder!


Unfortunately getting years of legal training in a different jurisdiction actually makes it much harder for a American attorney to understand anything European.

I believe they hired some actual European people eventually, but a company the size of the WMf should have had someone on retainer from the beginning, it's terribly lax of them not to.

And the same can be said for the EFF, only with them, it's inexcusable!

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Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:58 pm
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Dysklyver wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote:
I ready tryed it. I realy did, Arthur. I tryed from 2012 till I was golbal banned in 2016 to explane this difference to Romaine and socks like De Wikischim but they simple didn't want to lishen. I was a crackhead idiot, a psychiater had to look after me they said. I had a huge psychiatric problem and even didn't know myself who I was! So it was the best for everybody to SanFanBan me. Great.

But I was 100% right all the time and they where wrong! And how did I know this difference? Because I was a guest on the blog of Yanis Varoufakis from 2011 on! Yeh, where all kinds of experts about Europe who where posting there in that time, so I knew this difference! But that bunch of asholes of a wikilaywers did not!

It is rediciles, this is the second time this happens to me. First I knew exacte where the Eurocrisis was about because of that in that time complete unknown blog, I wrote a article about it what is now legal on Everypedia a week ago, and now this!
I get a wonder elder, beating the complete legal department of WMF! With only three years primery school! Yes, taht is goiing to happen! Statler the wonder elder!


Unfortunately getting years of legal training in a different jurisdiction actually makes it much harder for a American attorney to understand anything European.

I believe they hired some actual European people eventually, but a company the size of the WMf should have had someone on retainer from the beginning, it's terribly lax of them not to.

And the same can be said for the EFF, only with them, it's inexcusable!

I think a other mistake they made is they just lishned to "a" lawyer just because it is a laywer. But this material, item is so new and specialstic and often extreem complex that just finishing a law school not enough is. Because there are simple no skilled teachers.
I gues you learned the most of what you know in the same way like I did, using you basic legal skills and reading and deduction.
Most of that so called ICT lawers, even if they have finished law school have most time not a clou I have notised. But between you and me is of course a huge difference, you are a professional and I am a hobby lawyer. But a dammed honest one, because if I claim to be a professional every should believe me. But the true is I never spent one hour in law school, and maybe that is the biggest scandal. And that they didn't lishen to me is of coures embarrising.

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Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:57 pm
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One of their hilarious things was watching all the Wikipediots realising their own articles are totally insufficient for understanding how the EU works. A part of this is because of the general crapness of Wikipedia, but if they follow their own rules they will never be able to do it properly anyway, because there just isn't the level of secondary sourcing. I wrote about all this on one of the now exploded forums. I only know what I know from direct experience.


Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:00 am
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CrowsNest wrote:
One of their hilarious things was watching all the Wikipediots realising their own articles are totally insufficient for understanding how the EU works. A part of this is because of the general crapness of Wikipedia, but if they follow their own rules they will never be able to do it properly anyway, because there just isn't the level of secondary sourcing. I wrote about all this on one of the now exploded forums. I only know what I know from direct experience.

What is realy a pitty you can't read Dutch because this whole European copyright thing has started on WPNL. And it was to me from the first moment clear it was all utter bulshit. Because, also the involved wiki lawyers had no idea of Europen regulation and copyright. And I was that lilltle boy what all the time was saying the empire is naked, Romaine and friends are talking out of there wrong end. BUT because trollomedia NL was involved, and Romaine his Trollomedia BE, and they got the Erasmus price they where complete locked up in Hotel California when they found out I was right and decided to troll me out. Because I didn't shut up, I simple didn't lishen to them wathever they did. Abitroll, a SanFanBan, a letter from a lawyer of WMNL....... I was only lauging at it.
And I think they realy where thinking I was not the one I claimed to be because of that strange page I was dead. So the trolled me till they dropped.

It is a crazy situation, it is rediciless. It is unbelieveble, and of course with that voting cliffhanger at the end of the European parlement it is complete absurd what has happend. Jake said to me thank you for your calm reaction, but that was because I am complete asstonised and still can't believe what happend. I am in a kind of shock I suppose, it is all so unrealistic.

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Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:47 am
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It doesn't take much observation to realise Wikipedians know nothing about copyright. Stupid shit like this happens all the time, and that was an Administrator......

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/vie ... 5363#p5363


Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:58 am
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CrowsNest wrote:
It doesn't take much observation to realise Wikipedians know nothing about copyright. Stupid shit like this happens all the time, and that was an Administrator......

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/vie ... 5363#p5363

What I have noticed they don't want to understand it. Because if Whaledad explained something they started to troll. When we where talking about European copyright on Wikiquote all kind of Wikipedians like Romaine, the sock De Wikischim, Vintroll, sorry Vinvught, Robotje, damm it a lawyer, Jereon N claiming a lawyer and at the end Natuur12 himself came in the house only to troll. Just to sabotate and to troll, and nothing else. They did everything to stop the cleanig from copyvio, even with the help of corrupt stewards and only to stop that process. And of course they did understand I was right because now the same club is suporting MY system and Whaledad in public! I wrote a topic here about it, the complete U turn. But they are still trolling. Making shit pages on Wikiquote in the hope I will sock there. Starting noncens topics about the blessing of ther arbitrolling in De Kroeg for the same reason. They have the mind of a child, and that is the real problem.

it was a matter of not wanting to lishen.

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Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:02 am
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