Fram

[CrowsNest]

Yup. TRM's busy chucking around fascist analogies now. A man more intent on misconduct you will struggle to find, and yet still nothing from the much vaunted autonomous governators. Captured and cowering before their biggest trolls, as they have always been.

I suspect the WMF are only now realizing the magnitude of the task.

'gonna need a bigger flame thrower......

[CrowsNest]

Just splurging anywhere he pleases.....

Bear in mind that in light of recent events many people are going to be very reluctant to post anything in opposition to anyone, given that posting without diffs could be considered "harassment" but compiling diffs could be considered "stalking", so processes like RFA are going to move more slowly than usual. ‑ Iridescent 09:08, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

I say en.wiki can have autonomy if it demonstrates it has the capacity to react to trolling like this from its own Administrators in the appropriate fashion.

The way the community currently works, is that he shits in people's mouths, and the dumbfucks thank him for his wisdom, clapping along like retarded seals.

It might help dissuade the WMF from any further attempts at good faith negotiations, if they realized that this troll is indeed probably the person the community would elevate to Elder #1, should NewYorkBrad ever be convicted of malpractice.

Iridescent didn't last five seconds in his term at ArbCom, a record. Why? Legal troubles caused by his Wikipedia editing, ironically.

[CrowsNest]

Splurg splurg splurg.....

Indeed; if we had an admin who was particularly experienced in something really complicated and thankless where few people wanted to get involved, such as conducting bulk contributor copyright investigations for historic pages where the bots are useless as the pages are already mirrored, or monitoring the new pages feed for spammers, they could help train… Oh. Wait. ‑ Iridescent 19:55, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

You can tell this is just pure out and out trolling, because below is what the piece of shit actually said about Fram's capabilities with regard to literally a historic bulk CCI......

Fram's conduct regarding this issue—and other recent disputes with which he's been involved—has been an atrocious mix of unnecessary overpersonalization, extreme defensiveness when challenged, lashing out at anyone he feels isn't sufficiently agreeing with him, and a general attitude that his opinions are invariably correct and it's his duty to bludgeon them through regardless of opposition. (If this case is accepted—or looks like it's going to be accepted—then I'll follow with as many diffs as you feel you need, although I assume you're all familiar with his history.) While there's obviously been a genuine issue with Dr. Blofeld's early edits which Fram has correctly identified, I strongly feel that if any case is accepted it also needs to examine Fram's conduct, as in my opinion his extreme aggressiveness has understandably alienated Dr. Blofeld and consequently made what would have been a relatively straightforward situation to resolve with Dr. Blofeld's cooperation ("When did you start doing this, when did you stop, where did you copy the material from?") into something that will generate a significant amount of unnecessary work. ‑ Iridescent 13:25, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

I say en.wiki can be granted autonomy if and when it can demonstrate that when it's Administrators are caught doing deceitful shit like this, even if the comment was meant to be flippant, they should face serious consequences. Nobody reading that comment on the effects of the FramBan will have had any idea Iridescent was literally contradicting himself, and knowingly too (unless he has severe memory issues). Unfortunately it is still the case that naive users of Wikipedia are just assuming the Administrators aren't doing this, or those that do are caught and face the consequences.

[Graaf Statler]

https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/w ... 92894.html

I do not know Romaine, I do not know Caroline, and I do not know much about
the events that have led up to all of this other than what has been said on
this mailing list

If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why
Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just reflect on
this thread.

Really, really shocking this woman is a Arb. Romaine trolls, Romaine manipulates, Romaine lie, but Romaine harassing a woman? In no way! Never!
In all these years on WP-NL was WM-BE always very dominante, but I have never, never heard or see anything what even has pointed in the direction of sexual harresment. Woman both in the Chapters as on WPNL where extreem dominante and aggressive and many man has left for them, but a woman for a man? Never.

Indeed was Romaine one of the most toxic users wikipedia-NL ever had with his bot technic and nagging, but not for this reason. On WP he was mister the devil himself but I always heart story's what a incredible charming personalty he was. But on the other hand he changed bot trolling in a form of art, because he is extreem intelligent. And that made him such a toxic and dangerous user.

[CrowsNest]

Can the Separatists please note, ArbCom were given a heads up that a ban for Fram was in the works. THEY DID NOTHING, least of all protest at a perceived forthcoming jurisdictional over-reach.

For all the screaming about how your self-government was completely blindsided, the factual version is that your elected representatives were given advance warning, it is right there in their minutes of their monthly conference call with the Evil Corporation. They were informed beforehand that it was going to be a year long ban.

Serious shit, an action whose potential for controversy was entirely foreseeable by your own elected leaders, regardless of what the WMF might have thought would be the reaction (and everything suggests they knew they were about to light the blue touch paper).

In the words of the ArbCommer that they actually verbally told (despite it being a conference call, your elected representatives could apparently only muster one person from twelve to actually be your, uh, representative, in that routinely scheduled event).....

The discussion was not a request for new input and I certainly did not have the sense that they were thinking they were getting arbcom's blessing or insulating themselves from community response by informing us in advance. I certainly do think they genuinely thought they were doing a good thing for the project, and that it was not a convenient way to get rid of a critic or some kind of personal corruption or whatever other weird conspiracy theories are cropping up. Opabinia regalis (talk) 17:09, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

So, ArbCom had all the information it needed in their hands, to protest, before the ban. It appears that they didn't feel sufficiently alarmed or empowered to even lodge a formal protest.

Everything about what your elected representatives did on your behalf during this call and in response to these minutes before the ban was actually placed, has been merely the sort of cover your ass obsequious subservient bullshit you profess to hate. Oh sure, we are meant to believe these new partial limited bans had been criticised by this conference call taker back when they were being first applied to ze Germans, but when it came to being told in advance of one being lined up for one of your citizens, well, apparently she said nothing and did nothing.

It is worth noting that you freaks were only informed of these pretty crucial details by your precious ArbCom at 09:10, 11 June 2019, having been publicly asked by the community to comment as early as 18:24, 10 June 2019. According to one of the Arbs, the reason for this delay was because they were waiting for clearance from the WMF before they could tell you what they knew.....

The committee has been following this thread and the one at BN. We are discussing the matter. Mkdw talk 23:17, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

To add to Mkdw's comment, there is not a lot the Committee can say at the moment without discussing the matter first with the Foundation....... SilkTork (talk) 00:06, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

What makes me piss my pants with laughter at your silly little revolution, is that even though you had all this information about how little your precious Arbcom did to either keep you informed, how they did NOTHING to assert their supposed right to be the sovereign power for local issues affecting local people, and indeed how they had quite willingly been a part of the Circle of Trust, before and after the shitstorm broke, none of you had a bad word to say about your democratically elected representatives.

This assertion that your elected representatives were blindsided in a gross insult to your supposedly God-given rights to self determination, is just one of many, many, fictions, that have been spread around your community in the aftermath. Your self-governing community is very poor at correcting such misperceptions. Like all good scummy mobs, if fake news serves your cause, you embrace it. To an external observer, in that regard you're not that different to the hated WMF, you just don't have the excuse that you have a financial motive.

It says it all that one of the Administrators who has since thrown down his tools in protest, not only didn't see anything wrong with what ArbCom did during these crucial times, even though he was right there as the details of what they had done were finally coming out, he bizarrely chose to take that opportunity to laugh at the WMF instead....

"professional community managers" - LOL, thanks for injecting some humour into this sad affair. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:41, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Well, they're hired and paid for it at least; the ArbCom is just a random group of folks who know a lot about the English Wikipedia but generally not a whole lot about "community management". We've certainly bungled our fair share of communications in the past, so I don't know if we have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to saying we could have advised them on how to handle this better. GorillaWarfare (talk) 15:44, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

They're paid, certainly, but "professionalism" means a lot more in my book. Would the current ArbCom, with far greater knowledge of en.wiki policies and culture and with a wide range of options for actions at your disposal have done a better job than a "professional" group with a single-minded civility agenda and no tool more subtle than a 1-year no-appeal ban hammer? I'm quite sure you would. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Trolly McTrollface here, that's who you people really are. Juvenile little shits, only concerned with how you can punch Daddy in the balls, even though Mommy here was telling you that both your parents are responsible for so frequently dropping you on your head, scrambling your circuits. Perhaps Mommy even more so, because she only has to stay at home keeping you safe inside the house. Daddy has to go out and work to keep the lights on, keep the playroom stocked with toys, and guard the door against all external threats to your cossetted little life in middle class suburbia.

Would ArbCom have done a better job disciplining Fram was obviously not the question at hand. Why did ArbCom not lodge a formal protest, much less resign en masse or otherwise alert the community so they could decide if they wanted to shield Fram from the WMF's impending wrath and formulate a sound strategy for doing so, once the Committee were made fully aware of what was about to happen?

Could it be because they don't see themselves as having the rights and autonomy the community apparently thinks they have? Could it be that they had already recognized that the reason for the ban coming down this way was in part because of their own failures to ensure proper self-governance where he was concerned? A bit of both, is the rather obvious answer. If simple rabbit in the headlights style ineptitude doesn't suffice.

What it showed is that the professionals did what they were obliged to do per their flowchart, and the amateurs failed to do pretty much anything. Fast forward to now, and this indecision and lack of authority is reflected in how the erratic Bureaucrat's request for ArbCom to look into this matter, has stalled for an apparent lack of any clue about what they're supposed to be doing, or on whose authority they would be doing it.

Your revolution has failed, because you are weak minded and devoid of character. Wikipedians, one and all. As the saying goes, you elect the leaders you deserve. In this matter, ArbCom seems to reflect your community perfectly.

This is why the WMF isn't giving you any concessions, you must look like poorly behaved children to them. 'Twas ever thus, no?

Entertaining nonetheless. Sucks to be you.

HTD.

[Graaf Statler]

WMF lack the intelligence to be incompetent, but are masters of whinging and professional victimhood.

Crying Emmy, a story my mother told use often when I was a kid.

A crying beggar on the stairs in the center of London, and nobody knew why she was crying, but gave her money and comforted her. And when Emmy died it appeared Emmy was a very rich woman with a beautiful house in the suburbs.
It is a story I remember from 50 years ago, so I don't know if I write it correct down. But it was in the newspapers in that time.

Crying and lying pays off on wikipedia. He has grips my pussy! shouted Elly Prutser and lier (in different words) on the stage of WMC2017.Because Theobald Tiger, a ex WIR, had said drop dead and left. I had my #Metoo moment, claimed the gender b......
With the camera's of the television spotted on her. It is not broadcasted, a pity.
And these are the wiki gender "lady's". Professional victims indeed.

[CrowsNest]

Winged Blades of Godric, we're trying to make the case that we're a mature community that should be trusted to deal with their own dirty laundry, not an unruly rabble who need the WMF installing Jan as colonial viceroy to bring us into order. Launching personal attacks on someone we're trying to negotiate with really isn't helpful. ‑ Iridescent 17:59, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Brought to you by Mr. "either Fram is a liar or Jan is, and I know who I believe".

Too late to start pretending you're not a bunch of children now.....

Oh, and this has been an attempted negotiation has it? AH HA HAA HA HA HAAAAH!

Muppets.

[CrowsNest]

Starship.paint, nowhere did Opabinia say that any evidence whatsoever was provided to ArbCom or that any plausible rationale whatsoever was given for Fram's sudden unapeallable ban and desysop or for WMF's refusal to undo it. Softlavender (talk) 23:16, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Yeeessss. And even though she knew all this in advance, SHE DID NOTHING.

That's the "government" you think "administers" the "autonomous" community.

The above is also a pretty fucking unsupportable inference about a meeting between ArbCom and the WMF that has happened after the ban, and was described as ......

"dialogue with arbcom" (or the subset able to join in) did happen, the T&S members who attended were very generous with their time, and I think we're all still digesting and considering followup. Sorry that's so opaque. I don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but I don't want people to think nothing happened, either.

[CrowsNest]

I have never seen the Arbitration Committee (if that is who is being referred to) evade publicly giving all of the necessary and relevant details on any matter, excepting details which would seriously violate privacy (real names, etc.). ArbCom always summarizes actions taken and explains them. They have never refused to give rationales and details when asked. ArbCom is specifically tasked with privately handling matters or details that would violate our privacy policies, and the fact that ArbCom has not yet privately received information or details from WMF which would explain their rationale and due diligence, to me speaks volumes. Softlavender (talk) 11:45, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Why don't you engage your BRAIN and ask yourself under what circumstances ArbCom has historically refused to give details the community wants?

Was it in cases where revealing the complainant(s) would be further harassed? Was it in cases where significant portions of the community, if they knew what behaviours had been deemed unacceptable, would react by going out and doing those things themselves, as a fucked up from of "civil disobedience"?

If you can't wrap your head around the similarities between the reasons nothing is being revealed about the Fram ban by the WMF, and similar cases where ArbCom have done the same, the you really are an absolute retard. Which, from your editing history, we know you are.

Reasons for why ArbCom were not given details the WMF consider private information to be private even with respect to ArbCom, have already been given, repeatedly. It "speaks volumes" that you pieces of shit refuse to even hear them, much less have a reason why they should be seen as unacceptable to the indigenous peoples of the Autonomous Republic of Wikistan.

[CrowsNest]

Swarm adequately summing the reasons for the outrage......

It's been two weeks and we don't have an answer as to whether Fram even committed a violation. Seriously. He was banned under a ToU clause that prohibits certain behaviors. I'm simply asking the question if he actually violated the clause. Nothing beyond that. And I still can't get an answer. I even asked Doc James, our community-appointed board member, who was supposedly investigating this, whether Fram actually breached the ToU. He said "I don't have insight into the investigation", and then deleted his comment because he's "going hiking for a few days". This is where we're at. Our own community representative on the board can't even confirm for us that there was a ToU violation. Literally nobody involved is capable of telling us that it wasn't a dirty move. ~Swarm~ {sting} 20:02, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

The WMF banned a Vested Administrator, told them clearly this was for ToU violations, and their default response is to assume bad faith.

That is what this whole thing is about. These absolute pieces of shit, who ram ASSUME GOOD FAITH down there throats of anyone who ever questions the decisions of their community and it's precious ArbCom, who have seen countless people banned unjustly by the 'locals ', are now unhappy that the boot is on the other foot.

If assume good faith really is an intolerable concept for you when it means you can't be told what you want to know, then boy did you pick the wrong cult to shill for.

I feel bad for you son. Not.

I hope the pain this is causing you is absolutely real. I hope it really is tearing you all apart, as is being claimed (what a bunch of drama whores you really are btw)

We call this......KARMA, BITCHES.

HTD.