Guido den Broeder and Paraduin

[Abd]

History repeats itself.

I don't think you are the right person to judge Guido

Just fuck off Abd. You are a nice guy, but not our heads are a total chaos inside, but yours is. You mess anything constant up you know.

That quote was Graaf, writing about Guido, telling him he was not the right person to judge Wikipedia. So for quoting Graaf, he tells me to 'fuck off,' his generic answer for everything. Personally, I'm off to see the wizard.

[Graaf Statler]

That quote was Graaf, writing about Guido, telling him he was not the right person to judge Wikipedia. So for quoting Graaf, he tells me to 'fuck off,' his generic answer for everything. Personally, I'm off to see the wizard.

In general, just fuck off with this Abdshit Abd. A system based on guys who are autistic as the kitchen door, who block what they don't want to hear, who ignore total European copyright and what is powered by trollpower and Star Chambers has not any change on the long run. Not any, no matter how many pirate flags they wave.

That corps of wiki angels what should fix wiki and solve alllll the wiki problems will never come,
Hold on Abd, fasten your seatbelt, new European regulation is coming. The Trollopedia is ready to land in a crashlanding.

[Guido den Broeder]

Abd, I guess you'll just have to buy and read my biography, then. You won't get it for free. Everything is properly documented, including newspaper headlines and tv appearances.

I have several hundred publications, the first one from 1978 in mathematics. Ten of those are books.

What happened was that I came down with ME in 1987, which ended my career in econometrics. My main work still had to be published, which occurred in 1988 (Broeder, G. den, "Alternatieve heffingsgrondslagen voor de sociale zekerheid. Micro-, meso- en macro-economische effecten").

Some major results of my research were incorporated by all political parties, so the extra jobs didn't get lost over time. The VAT increase of this year is still based on the 1988 publication mentioned above.

[Graaf Statler]

Hij verwierf internationale bekendheid met de ontwikkeling van het macro-econometrische model AMO-K dat zo'n 15 jaar werd gebruikt voor het doorrekenen van strategische beleidsscenario's

Abd, guys who work with strategische beleidsscenario's aren't jokers or your playroom companions. Guido was a employer who worked on the highest levels of our political system. These guys advice our government, make policy. This are experts.

Knap shit dat je ziek werd trouwens Guido. Da's kut verdomme, je had op een enorm hoge positie kunnen eindigen!

[Guido den Broeder]

I first encountered him as an ME/CFS activist. I have substantial sympathy for alternative medicine and minority viewpoints. Sometimes they turn out, eventually, to be reality, or to at least have some truth to them. But some people become fanatics, and increase the anti-fringe reactions of the mainstream. The last thing a field like that needs is a troll.

I guess that's why they picked me. Except of course that I am not a ME/CFS activist, whatever that is.

What I am is a ME patient and advocate. I am the chair of the ME Vereniging Nederland, the Stichting ME Research, and GAME (Global Advocates for ME).

ME was previously called aborted, missed, or a-typical poliomyelitis, until polio got redefined in 1954 to exclude non-paralytic cases. You can see and identify the disease on brain scans, or diagnose it from a variety of markers.

There is no article on ME in en:wp, so obviously you have no way of knowing any of this.

[Graaf Statler]

Was een beetje een politiek dingetje, is het niet?

But that is changing now. We have had a trend here in Holland everyone who has two legs and two arms can work and what we don't see doesn't exist. There is a discussion going on now about ME.
But be serious, If he Guido had not been ill he had absolute a professor now. 100% for sure and not a fake professor as Drmies what in in Holland a much lower universal degree what he has. Should Guido fake ME? Of course not!

[Abd]

I first encountered him as an ME/CFS activist. I have substantial sympathy for alternative medicine and minority viewpoints. Sometimes they turn out, eventually, to be reality, or to at least have some truth to them. But some people become fanatics, and increase the anti-fringe reactions of the mainstream. The last thing a field like that needs is a troll.

I guess that's why they picked me. Except of course that I am not a ME/CFS activist, whatever that is.

What I am is a ME patient and advocate. I am the chair of the ME Vereniging Nederland, the Stichting ME Research, and GAME (Global Advocates for ME).

The constant refrain of the troll is, 'you are wrong." He has no idea what an "activist" is, but in this context, it is an advocate.

ME was previously called aborted, missed, or a-typical poliomyelitis, until polio got redefined in 1954 to exclude non-paralytic cases. You can see and identify the disease on brain scans, or diagnose it from a variety of markers.

There is no article on ME in en:wp, so obviously you have no way of knowing any of this.

None of that is surprising to me. I did research the topic, but I'm totally aware that someone like Guido will have done far, far more research, in addition to having personal knowledge. But with this (as with CRPS, by the way), personal knowledge can be misleading. Or enlightening, it depends. Guido is taking here (as I've seen in his writing elsewhere), a particular position on a matter which is quite controversial, and which gets drastically oversimplified as "mental illness" or "physical illness." And, of course, if you can see symptoms in a brain scan, it must be a physical illness, right?

Not right, not necessarily. It is not clear that ME is a single syndrome, or a number of them.

I've been reading stuff like this. I should say that I have a general, learned mistrust for "expert studies" particularly when the simply confirm common opinion. The general consensus can be very, very wrong, and there are examples where such a consensus was based on speculation and politics instead of actual and clear science. I'm sure that if Guido attempted to improve Wikipedia coverage of ME, he ran into obstacles. Yet he failed to recognize that others were running into similar obstacles, and he only focused on his own interests. He has not understood what I wrote here and that would all be related to what I'm suspecting. Meanwhile, Guido makes many claims and does not back them with verifiable sources.

You can see and identify the disease on brain scans, or diagnose it from a variety of markers.

This assumes a clear definition of "the disease," and a series of other assumptions. Guido presents opinion as fact.

What he presents as fact would be cutting edge, research that has not been clearly confirmed and about which no consensus yet exists. If someone I knew had ME/CFS, I would not care if it was "physical" or "mental," because they can be radically disabled, and could die, either way. "Mental" does not mean "imaginary."

What I know from my experience with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome is that what was clearly diagnosed, textbook CRPS, and very, very dangerous, was resolved with what amounted to reprogramming. The nervous system is programmable, and that is something few really understand.

Den Broeder may have boxed himself into perpetual illness. As I mentioned, it is not clear that ME/CFS is a single entity, with a single cause.

I'm suspecting that there is a relationship between ME/CFS and CRPS, both being a developed response, both being neurological. Recent article: https://www.verywellhealth.com/allodyni ... gia-715929

(Allodynia was the crystal-clear symptom my daughter displayed. It was extreme. And what it took for her to recover, few adults would not tolerate. She was 13 and she faced it.)

[Abd]

Meanwhile, the topic here. Guido wrote in another thread

Abd wrote:
Liberland, at least, has a few boots on the ground.

Not really.

Actually, really. "Boots on the ground" means people actually there. They actually did plant a flag. They are actually visiting the place, though with difficulty.

They tried to occupy the abandoned loggers house, but we had it demolished.

Now, if den Broeder actually intended to exercise sovereignty over that place, he'd have wanted that house to be there. "Had it demolished" implies it was his action, that the Croatian government did this on his request.

Guido was correct, the house was demolished. Someone went to that effort, and they trucked the materials out. (There is an old road.) Apparently that happened in 2017. Story. And more, this is a fun story, Graaf, you might appreciate it.

So basically all they can do is visit the island or the beach like any other tourist. The moment they identify themselves as Liberlanders they get thrown out. All the money that they collected from gullible followers can't change that, no matter how many magazine articles and embassees they pay for.

It's still boots on the ground, or at least shoes or sandals or feet.

Building a city in Siga isn't possible because of the Dabune treaty, so all these thousands of 'citizens' are waiting in vain. Mr. President forgot to do his homework before he tried to profit from my find.

Danube. Regardless of whether or not they can ultimately be successful, it is clear that Liberland is a real project, with many, many people involved, not just one clown from Rotterdam. Recent story.
The path to Liberland success is fairly obvious to me. Money. The real issue would be the price, what is that piece of land worth to Croatia, and what is it worth to them?

Meanwhile, Guido den Broeder was a troll who attempted to hoax Wikipedia over Paraduin and Liberland. He still is a troll. Claiming someone who simply presents fact is "lying" is trolling. Correcting errors, great, claiming that errors exist, okay, better to point them out, but claiming "lies" is thoroughly offensive. Guido was always pugnacious as a WMF user. It did not get better. His meta indef block was recent.

Self-important creep. Pretty much Billinghurst's conclusion. His meta talk page before blanking. Endless argument, no redeeming value. They were talking on meta about creating a global ban. Nobody could be arsed, he simply wasn't that important. He is eligible, though. That meta block was discussed and was consensus. So that could be three bans. Two is the minimum.

This all had nothing to do with Wikisage. It did have to do with this effort by Guido that demonstrated he had no clue how a WMF wiki actually operates. He seemed to believe that there were rules and he could revert war to enforce his interpretation of them. This actually matches his opinions on many things. There is Right and there is Wrong, and You Are Wrong. And, of course I'm Right. And if you block me, it proves I'm Right. Billinghurst rev-deleted Guido's last comment on meta. Not for delicate ears, apparently.

"I only edit when I need to." Yeah, right. He really needed to vent? Perhaps rage is a treatment for ME/CFS? And he will continue to blame everything on everyone else, until he learns to take responsibility. The clock is ticking. It may get more difficult with age.

[Graaf Statler]

Guido is taking here (as I've seen in his writing elsewhere), a particular position on a matter which is quite controversial, and which gets drastically oversimplified as "mental illness" or "physical illness." And, of course, if you can see symptoms in a brain scan, it must be a physical illness, right?

Not right, not necessarily. It is not clear that ME is a single syndrome, or a number of them

Can't agree more, but this is with most illnesses the matter. But a fact is there is no therapy and Guido feels himself shit and ME has ruined his briljant career. And because of this I complete agree with Guido, give the people a basisinkomen to avoid this discussion. Because stress, money stress is extreem bad for ME patients. And it seems acupuncture helps ME patients very much, and anything what helps is OK.

[Guido den Broeder]

As I mentioned, it is not clear that ME/CFS is a single entity, with a single cause.

There is no entity 'ME/CFS', period.

The following diagnoses exist:

* Myalgic Encepahlomyelitis (ME), a specific postviral brain disorder.

* Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), a research diagnosis to select patients with unexplained fatigue and malaise.

CFS explicitly excludes ME.

I have not tried to edit ME into en:wp, since I prefer it without yet another messed-up medical article. My sources are mentioned in my publications. It would be pointless to list them here where nobody can understand their meaning and significance. The above, however, is simply their classification in the ICD10 and the ICD10-CM, and not a personal view at all. Use of the International Classification of Diseases is mandatory in all WHO member states.

You'll just have to accept that I know what I'm talking about, or the WHO, ZonMw, Dutch parliament, journals, magazines, tv, radio, newspapers, physicians, researchers, etc., and of course patients from all over the world, over the course of several decades, wouldn't have accepted me as an expert. I also have a medical certificate on the topic.