Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2

[JuiceBeetle]

Bilorv's oppose vote: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Fram_2&diff=918052583&oldid=918052259

[CrowsNest]

In the end, Fram fucked himself.

Made mistakes years ago, months ago, and days ago.

All the same kind of mistakes.

All likely made for the same sort of reasons.

No accident that the word "temperament" features a lot.

It's deep seated.

It's exceedingly cruel that someone so obviously unfit, has to be subject to such a humiliating process, just so that some form of finality can be achieved.

Wikipedia is just so badly fucked, from top to bottom.

Can't be fixed. Just burn it, burn it all.

HTD.

[CrowsNest]

Who said that?

So many people, so many times.

Ignored each and every time.

(but yeah, this time it was Number 70).

[CrowsNest]

I withdraw my nomination. With nearly 250 !votes, it is clear that this RfA will not succeed, and most issues and opinions that needed to be aired have been aired presumably. There clearly is widespread concern about my behaviour and attitude (though also a heartwarming bunch of supports). I will continue to edit, take the applicable concerns to heart, and hope to reapply in a year (or later) with a better track record. Fram (talk) 13:36, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Realizing it might take at least twelve months is remarkably smart of him. Do we assume he arrived at that himself, or was he coached even in that regard?

I knew his lack of experience with RfA was going to screw him. It will not look good to some, in twelve months time, that he really needed to see 250 give their view, before he accepted his fate. Still, just like with going with five nominators, he seems determined to go it his own way. Which is kinda the problem.

[JuiceBeetle]

Do we assume he arrived at that himself, or was he coached even in that regard?

Good close comment. Imho he either had a moment of enlightenment, or he was coached. "(though also a heartwarming bunch of supports)" sounds like him.

[CrowsNest]

On wow. It was worth it just to see these two posts.......

I am personally disappointed by the RfA as of right now. This is a case where we should restore the status quo ante IMO. I doubt the haters would have prevailed at an RFAR, this looks like people exploiting an error. That offends me. Guy (help!) 23:35, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

I am terribly sorry that I was late to the party. My support was drafted in advance of the RfA and was intended to be at least within one of the first 5 votes. However, due to my time zone, by the time I woke up at 5AM his morning many votes had been cast so my vote will have lost a lot of its impact. Kudpung (talk) 23:50, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

They're absolutely incapable of appreciating what just happened. In shock, both are defaulting to their normal state, JzG assuming opponents are game-playing eviltons, Kudpung assuming the problem is people just aren't blindly following him enough.

Wikipedia just has to find a way to remove people like this, people who, as the phrase was infamously uttered, are not and never will be Wikipedians.

What Wikipedia needs is someone prepared to take on the really powerful insiders.

[CrowsNest]

Breakthrough?

I hadn't expected it to go this bad (though I hadn't expected a walk in the park either); while I don't agree with all opposes, the main message is rather clear, and I should heed it. Fram (talk) 13:57, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

See, this is Fram all over. He says shit like this, and it's human nature just to assume he means what you think he means, i.e. he's taken on board the main message, that his attitude and temperament is all wrong.

But when you look back at his whole history, for Fram, that really would be a revelation. The message could be any number of ridiculously stupid things he absolutely should not be taking away from this. The most plausible is that he thinks the message is just go away for twelve months, don't say fuck once in that entire period (temperament? check!), don't insult people unless they absolutely deserved it (attitude? check!), and he's good to go.

The dude is obviously not in shock, he's in a reflective mood and thinking clearly, so it has to be asked, why, after all that, is he still keeping it to himself?

I think he is still missing the point, or at the very least some very big parts of it. In this scenario, a good Admin wouldn't even need to be asked to bare their soul. How can anyone trust he has taken on board a message he can't even summarize in his own words?

[CrowsNest]

Now, to more important matters, I clearly totally won that bet.

Let the record show that I said more things that came true, than Timmy did.

As it always goes.

My only error it seems was not factoring in just how many people were aware of Fram and hated his guts. Maybe I just goofed, but I somehow also want to blame the watchlist notifications, which are of course there to alert people who are not intimately following the daily dramas, but have got shit to say it needs to be said.

[Carrite]

Breakthrough?

I hadn't expected it to go this bad (though I hadn't expected a walk in the park either); while I don't agree with all opposes, the main message is rather clear, and I should heed it. Fram (talk) 13:57, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

See, this is Fram all over. He says shit like this, and it's human nature just to assume he means what you think he means, i.e. he's taken on board the main message, that his attitude and temperament is all wrong.

But when you look back at his whole history, for Fram, that really would be a revelation. The message could be any number of ridiculously stupid things he absolutely should not be taking away from this. The most plausible is that he thinks the message is just go away for twelve months, don't say fuck once in that entire period (temperament? check!), don't insult people unless they absolutely deserved it (attitude? check!), and he's good to go.

The dude is obviously not in shock, he's in a reflective mood and thinking clearly, so it has to be asked, why, after all that, is he still keeping it to himself?

I think he is still missing the point, or at the very least some very big parts of it. In this scenario, a good Admin wouldn't even need to be asked to bare their soul. How can anyone trust he has taken on board a message he can't even summarize in his own words?

I've mentioned elsewhere a couple notorious WP jerks who turned it around and became civil — Sarek of Vulcan and TenPoundHammer. There's a chance Fram could achieve something similar; if any one incident is gonna be a catalyst for personal change at WP, going into a vote like this all cocky and confident and getting his balls kicked in in about 26 hours is gonna do it...

I'm a little shocked myself that this thing fell below 50%; I figured 60% was his worst case scenario... Remember, he originally won tools in 2007 in a vote that went 55-0 in his favor...

RfB

[Anyone]

Fram tapped out at 6:43 am PDT, a couple hours into the second day of the seven-day process.

Final score: 108 — 122 — 14 (47%)

RfB

Thanks for tracking this, Tim.

You're 14 hours behind me, so the times make sense. 6:43 PDT = 20H43 Bangkok.

My last post here was on Friday night @ 19H00, when it was 107:118. So we really were heading towards 45%.