Block notices only

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ericbarbour
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Re: Block notices only

Post by ericbarbour » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:10 pm

I have no idea how to handle this. Graaf is also sending me emails. Don't have the TIME, very goddamn busy!!......

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Strelnikov
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Re: Block notices only

Post by Strelnikov » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:49 pm

ericbarbour wrote:I have no idea how to handle this. Graaf is also sending me emails. Don't have the TIME, very goddamn busy!!......


Then forward all his rambling insane emails to me, so I can send snarky responses.
Still "Globally Banned" on Wikipedia for the high crime of journalism.

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Abd
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Re: Block notices only

Post by Abd » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:43 pm

ericbarbour wrote:I have no idea how to handle this. Graaf is also sending me emails. Don't have the TIME, very goddamn busy!!......
Simple. Delegate, and you already have. Confirm moderator authority and you already have. So beyond that, extremely simple. DNFTT. Ignore. Or not, as you choose.

It could be appropriate to name someone to arbitrate and there are standard rules for that, designed to be efficient and to actually work. But my opinion is that there is nothing there.

I was supportive of Graaf at first, saw that he was being excoriated by that WPO troll, and Graaf was also quite supportive of me (which was much appreciated, by the way!) but when I pointed out what he was doing, how he was trashing his own life by continued involvement with a community that he hates, he reacted very strongly and even viciously and with apparent paranoia.

On the Discord server, Graaf made it clear that he trusted nobody, while he shows civility at times to some, as long as they are not openly disagreeing with him.

Eric, you have Mod and L5 access on the Discord server. Clearly, you are trusted there by the Owner. But to take an action in a case like this requires either a knee jerk response, or investigation, and investigation takes time, which you don't have. So either ignore it, trust your Moderators, or delegate the investigation.

It's all basic stuff that they never figured out on Wikipedia.

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Abd
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Re: Block notices only

Post by Abd » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:58 pm

Strelnikov wrote:
ericbarbour wrote:I have no idea how to handle this. Graaf is also sending me emails. Don't have the TIME, very goddamn busy!!......

Then forward all his rambling insane emails to me, so I can send snarky responses.

He's pretty crazy and it's a bit like kicking someone disabled. But his paranoia leads him to be vicious, to "troll back" he called it on the Discord server. It's all someone else's fault.

Here we have four Office-banned users: me, Graaf, Kumioko, and you, Strelnikov, with the distinction of not having an account and being banned under your real name, a tad rude, I'd say. But all the published bans are rude. If they gotta ban, they gotta ban, but they don't need to wave a big flag, posting names on a wall of shame. No major social media site does that.

But my point is that we all do, more or less, get along. Except Graaf, who pretty much hates everyone. Except the North Koreans. He likes them, they are nice and orderly.

(He's met some nice North Koreans. Not a surprise, there are nice people everywhere. Even on Wikipedia.)

Kumioko can be a little ragged. It is actually a bit like Graaf, though Graaf is far more extreme.

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Re: Block notices only

Post by JuiceBeetle » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:16 pm

Graaf Statler has been permanently banned after a community vote: 4 out of 4 contributors supported banning, not counting my vote (as proposer). The admins did not vote.
The reason given in the ban message: "Too much trolling and nonsense."

His appeal / good-bye message:
"What else can I say other than I don't give a fucking dame about you, this forum, your guys DSM-5 internet addition or your craziness in general?"

I believe this applies more to Statler than to all other contributors he criticizes there. We tried to change this "craziness" for weeks, spending hours to reason with him. Did not help. The burden to moderate him was too much, therefore a permanent ban has been proposed and voted for by the active contributors.

Thank you for the awesome model-train videos and the occasional fun time you've given us.
#Bbbgate

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Re: Block notices only

Post by Strelnikov » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:09 am

But he still has the "Wikipedia Sucks" Discord to lean on, right? Or was he kicked off of there?

Martin has gone from getting kicked from Wikipedia, Wikipediocracy, this board, and possibly somewhere else. He needs therapy, but CrowsNest would scream if I said that in the thread where Graaf Statler got kicked, if CrowsNest was still around. (Is he?)

I'm sorry things got to this level.
Still "Globally Banned" on Wikipedia for the high crime of journalism.

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Re: Block notices only

Post by Abd » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:38 pm

He has a special Role created for him on The Wiki Tree House Discord Server (formerly the Wikipediocracy Server), "BANNED," which, paradoxically, was created to prevent him from being banned by the many Mods he irritated.That role allowed him to post in some channels, but his abuse in the Level One channel "The Smithery" led that to be revoked. He is allowed to comment freely in a Level Two channel that had been created for unrestrained griping, "Flame Wars," which has been renamed "Free Speech." Few use it except for Graaf. In order to keep Graaf within limits, I was given a Role, Admin, allowing me to delete posts. I had used it in The Smithery, until the Owner made it unnecessary by revoking his privileges there. In the Flame Wars channel, he started pinging me, as he was using that channel to hurl trolling comments about me or addressed to me. So I warned him that I'd delete there as well, if he continued. He responded with repeated pings, typical Graaf adolescent "you can't make me." I really didn't care, I just deleted those comments and he started making more, till the Owner simply said "stop pinging," and he did. His story is that he respects the owners and will obey them, but not "fake mods" or "trollmods," not realizing that the Owners have authorized the mods, they are acting for the mods. Or he does realize and it was all and remains trolling, his idea of lulz.

But we don't care. I have no problem with him getting what he wants, only with cluttering up a forum with useless garbage that does discourage participation. He has commented today on the Server. Since it is, in part, a response to the question here, I'm putting it here. It is pure trolling, demanding interaction or "you are a coward," the refrain of trolls since the internet was invented.

[3:49 PM]Myself:@[JuiceBeetle] / wrote: "We tried to change this "craziness" for weeks, spending hours to reason with him."
[3:50 PM]Myself:Strelnikov wrote: "But he still has the "Wikipedia Sucks" Discord to lean on, right"
[3:55 PM]Myself:Yeh, [JuiceBeetle], Steln is right. You/we wanted to reason with me. Well, take your change and Abd too in this free-speech arena. So me your cards, and I sow mine. Or are you too much chicken without your F* troll tools, Sweety? Because that's what I think, you are just like Abd a sad loser with only a keyboard and not even a blocking tool here. Losers who can not even win from me with a blocking tool, and for sure not without!


He will probably be allowed to rant in that channel as long as he likes, subject to restrictions as needed. Pinging people who have explicitly requested otherwise is an offense, and had he continued that, he'd have been actually banned as before. What I found worked was setting clear boundaries, not arguing about them even when they were attacked as "against the rules" -- Graaf imagines that if there is no explicit rule against something, it is "against the rules" for someone with moderator or admin tools to warn and enforce ad hoc rules -- and then to enforcing the warning to stop the behavior, with action and, again, little or no comment. From my point of view, JuiceBeetle went far beyond what was necessary, perhaps on the idea that Graaf would listen to reason.

But a person can listen to reason while blocked, and may decide to promise to follow rules as declared by site management, and then unblock can be considered. It is not necessary to prove anything to anyone. But JuiceBeetle is a Wikipedia critic who has been harmed or insulted by admin blocking behavior, and such can be very reluctant to block.

Blocking is not banning, however, and is a temporary measure, improperly used for punishment or even bullying. It was clear that JuiceBeetle was acting here with support from Owners. That is actually enough. It's an offensive burden on moderators to demand that every action be justified in advance. So sane owners will not demand that. Appeal process can be created that will not be disruptive, etc.

Perhaps we will get to see this here.

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Re: Block notices only

Post by CrowsNest » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:46 am

Get bent.
Last edited by CrowsNest on Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Block notices only

Post by JuiceBeetle » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:09 am

He's alive and well :lol:
We were worried... Welcome back ;)
#Bbbgate

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Re: Block notices only

Post by Stanistani » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:43 am

JuiceBeetle wrote:He's alive and well :lol:
We were worried... Welcome back ;)

Prodigal fatted calf and all that.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die

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