What really happened on October 7? - The Grayzone

[RetroidHooman]

@Ognistysztorm
People who are dismissive of 9/11 theories have usually never actually engaged with them, or were only exposed to the morons who talk about hidden bombs, no planers, and other loons the controlled media dishonestly tried to present the original and average skeptics as. Dismissive attitudes like that are anti-intellectual and anti-rational, but it's an off-topic subject so I'll say my piece: conspiracy theories are not inherently ridiculous, the label itself only serves to shut down accusations, and there are legitimate reasons to question the official narrative on 9/11.

Anyways, there are also reasons to question the narrative with Israel and Hamas, much more so than 9/11. The history of Bibi supporting them is known, the fact that Gaza is the most mass surveilled place on Earth is known, the fact that Israel ignored very specific warning of Hamas' attack is known, and then we have the sheer degree that Israel is nonstop lying about what happened during the attack and now during their little war to the point where nothing that comes from them can be trusted. I'm not saying it's a certain fact that Bibi let it happen as a pretext to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, but the possibility cannot be written off.

You should not be using "I saw grisly things on twitter" as an argument or basis for your stances, we live in an age of mass propaganda and social media astroturfing. Israel has flooded, and I do mean flooded, social media with propaganda bots, spread faked evidence, made unbacked claims (that they should in theory be able to easily back) left and right, and provably lied on numerous and ever growing occasions.

[Ognistysztorm]

@Ognistysztorm
People who are dismissive of 9/11 theories have usually never actually engaged with them, or were only exposed to the morons who talk about hidden bombs, no planers, and other loons the controlled media dishonestly tried to present the original and average skeptics as. Dismissive attitudes like that are anti-intellectual and anti-rational, but it's an off-topic subject so I'll say my piece: conspiracy theories are not inherently ridiculous, the label itself only serves to shut down accusations, and there are legitimate reasons to question the official narrative on 9/11.

Anyways, there are also reasons to question the narrative with Israel and Hamas, much more so than 9/11. The history of Bibi supporting them is known, the fact that Gaza is the most mass surveilled place on Earth is known, the fact that Israel ignored very specific warning of Hamas' attack is known, and then we have the sheer degree that Israel is nonstop lying about what happened during the attack and now during their little war to the point where nothing that comes from them can be trusted. I'm not saying it's a certain fact that Bibi let it happen as a pretext to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, but the possibility cannot be written off.

You should not be using "I saw grisly things on twitter" as an argument or basis for your stances, we live in an age of mass propaganda and social media astroturfing. Israel has flooded, and I do mean flooded, social media with propaganda bots, spread faked evidence, made unbacked claims (that they should in theory be able to easily back) left and right, and provably lied on numerous and ever growing occasions.

We have all these new stories about babies baked in ovens, we’ve heard stories about babies cut out of mothers’ wombs by so-called Hamas terrorists, rape, gang rape, women after being taken, gang raped in the streets in Gaza City.

All of these lies were spun out.

I'm sorry. Despite re-reading the article I found nothing that countervails the Grayzone's quote above, which isn't just standard "conspiracy theories territory", but outright ludicrous areas just like the moon landing hoax theories and Holocaust denialism.

[Bbb23sucks]

We have all these new stories about babies baked in ovens, we’ve heard stories about babies cut out of mothers’ wombs by so-called Hamas terrorists, rape, gang rape, women after being taken, gang raped in the streets in Gaza City.

All of these lies were spun out.

I'm sorry. Despite re-reading the article I found nothing that countervails the Grayzone's quote above, which isn't just standard "conspiracy theories territory, but outright ludicrous areas just like the moon landing hoax theories and Holocaust denialism.

Did you read the part about nearly all of those being fabricated, wildly exaggerated, or worse, actually done by IDF.

If you read the article fully, you'd find out that the "baby baked in an oven" was actually killed by an Israeli Hellfire missile.

[Bbb23sucks]

As for the “decapitated babies" claim: https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/11/behe ... lestinian/

[Strelnikov]

The lies* by the Zahal (IDF) spokespeople have been running hot and heavy since the Hamas attack ended and the IDF assault on Gaza began. I can say that most Israelis want Netanyahu out, that the Israeli far-Right is furious with him, and that he still has five open cases waiting from the Israeli judiciary. I'm not Jewish, and I want him shot.

*ex-Twitter is a wonderground of this idiocy:
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23idflies&src=typed_query (hashtag #IDFlies. Possible alternates: #IDFGazaFail, #IDFprorgandaFail, etc.)

https://twitter.com/sanyya/status/1727029876950188193 (The fake Gaza nurse video.)

https://twitter.com/IDF (See the propaganda emerge from the Israeli Army/Zahal in real time!)

Other source of info on Israeli trainwrecks: https://www.richardsilverstein.com/ aka the Tikun Olam blog. Silverstein has been following the mess that is Israeli military politics for twenty years -- he has sources who will leak because he never names names. Because of this, last I heard he is banned from Israel.

[ericbarbour]

I'm not Jewish, and I want him shot.

And if you posted this on xshitter, and anyone noticed it, some loose nut would probably start screaming "YOU FILTHY ANTI-SEMITE" at you. If you had done that in 2018 your account would have been banned very quickly, because "hate speech" and backstabbery. Today Musk's minions will let it pass--but you'll still be attacked.

PS the news for the past couple of days has been full of blubbering about Hamas releasing some hostages. In return, Israel released some prisoners, mostly teenagers. Diplomacy finally had an effect--not that the ceasefire will continue. Both sides are still full of blind rage.
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-new ... index.html

[Bbb23sucks]

Yup, that's as asinine as how people say that 9/11 attacks were false flags by Bush and Israel, or how those anti-science people says that the Apollo moon landings were CGI hoaxes.

What? Did you read the article?

It implicitly claims that the rape and even beheading stories were made up or fake, and that's where I draw the line because with all due respect, I had (inadvertently) seen shocking images and footages about it on X already.

The rape story was entirely fake. The truth of what actually happened though is just as horrible (hint: it was done by Israel) https://interimrevfemcommittee.substack ... e-hands-of

[ericbarbour]

The Grayzone is becoming a major magnet for nutcases, government meddling, and conspiracy theorizing. Hope Blumenthal is making some money from all this crap--because he'll have enemies for life.

[Strelnikov]

The Grayzone is becoming a major magnet for nutcases, government meddling, and conspiracy theorizing. Hope Blumenthal is making some money from all this crap--because he'll have enemies for life.

The Greyzone was the only outfit willing to go critical on NAFO outside of Moss Robeson, who as you know, researches the Ukrainian far-Right. To me it is useful; but with all news publications you have to read critically. Blumenthal doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about enemies; he was writing about the Israeli far-Right years before The Grayzone was a publication.

".....government meddling, and conspiracy theorizing."

Almost sounds like you are giving an mean description of Robin Ramsey's Lobster magazine. The fatassed nitwits of Keir Starmer's defanged Labour Party and that mongoloid Rishi Sunak would love to see that one-man-band of an operation go away; having a historical memory means that tomorrow's crimes are harder to hide or justify. I do hope Netanyahu trips on the stars and breaks his neck, but no enough to kill him, just hurt him a lot.
https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/issue/87/

[ericbarbour]

Almost sounds like you are giving an mean description of Robin Ramsey's Lobster magazine.

No question: Lobster has its uses. But admit it, you can't write honestly about things like Israel-Hamas without looking at least a little paranoid. Politics has always involved some paranoia. These days it's turned up to 11 regardless of left/right/whatever.

Again, both sides in this conflict are committing terrible atrocities on civilians. But both sides have so many blind supporters in Europe and America, and anyone covering it is immediately attacked for supporting the "enemy", we get very little serious outside analysis of the big picture. Most "working" journalists are cowards.