John Carter

For serious discussion of the "major" forum for Wikipedia criticism and how it fails.
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AndrewForson
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Re: John Carter

Post by AndrewForson » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:01 am

CrowsNest wrote:'the fuck is this shit meant to be?
One tactic that might work to at least some degree might be trying to get retirement communities to work with local libraries to add PD historical sources to wikisource, where they would be more easily accessible by everybody, and then using those sources and others to develop articles on Wikipedia, books on wikibooks or wikiversity, archives of historical "news" articles on wikinews, and so on. I think, maybe, the effort might help in prolonging mental acuity in some older people, and they would probably be the individuals most likely to be interested in a lot of the older sources and topics anyway, particularly regarding topics and books like county histories.
What dark corner of Wikipedia, pray tell Zoloft, is this exposing?

I think you give Zoloft too little credit for the subtlety of his plan. Firstly, older people will be less used to the arrogance and stupidity of the people who control Wikipedia, less likely to tolerate it and more likely to want, and be able, to push back against it. With any luck the Wikipedians will manage to bring their arrogance and stupidity to wider public gaze. Secondly, for those older people who are becoming a little, shall we say, detached from reality, what could be better for burning out those few Wikipedians who still mean well than endless argumentation with people like Abe Simpson? No, all in all, this is a strategy well-judged to Hasten The Day!

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Re: John Carter

Post by CrowsNest » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:11 am

AndrewForson wrote:
CrowsNest wrote:'the fuck is this shit meant to be?
One tactic that might work to at least some degree might be trying to get retirement communities to work with local libraries to add PD historical sources to wikisource, where they would be more easily accessible by everybody, and then using those sources and others to develop articles on Wikipedia, books on wikibooks or wikiversity, archives of historical "news" articles on wikinews, and so on. I think, maybe, the effort might help in prolonging mental acuity in some older people, and they would probably be the individuals most likely to be interested in a lot of the older sources and topics anyway, particularly regarding topics and books like county histories.
What dark corner of Wikipedia, pray tell Zoloft, is this exposing?

I think you give Zoloft too little credit for the subtlety of his plan. Firstly, older people will be less used to the arrogance and stupidity of the people who control Wikipedia, less likely to tolerate it and more likely to want, and be able, to push back against it. With any luck the Wikipedians will manage to bring their arrogance and stupidity to wider public gaze. Secondly, for those older people who are becoming a little, shall we say, detached from reality, what could be better for burning out those few Wikipedians who still mean well than endless argumentation with people like Abe Simpson? No, all in all, this is a strategy well-judged to Hasten The Day!
I like it. But sadly, if Zoloft had even an ounce of that level of malevolence in him to conceive such an evil plan, or in this case encourage fools like John to air their ridiculous ideas simply for their HTD potential, Wikipediocracy would still be a force to be reckoned with. No, the sad reality is, it's now just a place where people like John can post this sort of crap, and people don't even bat an eyelid. Today's genius idea? From someone very similar to John in their intellectual rigour - support for the idea that WP:WEB should merely be a measure of popularity, because this helps Facebook in their mission to be the arbiter of what site is trustworthy. You cannot make this shit up.

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Re: John Carter

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:02 am

More shit masquerading as analysis, this being about the news Facebook is now linking to Wikipedia to help people supposedly figure out if news is trustworthy or not.
This will almost certainly increase the frequency of POV pushing vandalization of many many articles, and probably ridiculously overburden the few editors working on them. I honestly think that this might do wikipedia a hell of a lot more damage than it will help Facebook, so it might make sense for Facebook to put up a fair amount of money to the WMF to pay for all the content damage this might do.
It's banal in the extreme of course, but the best part is how he tries to pretend he had originated this slop all by himself. As anyone can see, it's merely exactly what everyone (most notably the demand for money, originating from the cult leaders themselves) has been saying about the recent news regarding YouTube, and this moron has just swapped YouTube for Facebook.

Who in their right mind would ever even visit Wikipediocracy, when this is the standard of their analysis? And I remind people, this is the fuckwit who tried to cast me as an ignoramous. He's not fit to lace my boots, and he fucking knew it, the little snowflake.

Wikipedia should be glad Facebook do this, because now they at least have the theoretical possibility this idiot will get his crayons out and somehow write 500 words for their blog, 300 of which will simply unthinkingly parrot WMF propaganda, and then Facebook will happily tell people it comes from a "website for discussion and criticism of Wikipedia". Sure it is.

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Re: John Carter

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:27 am

Still more falling down juice....
http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtop ... 40#p217540
I have real trouble seeing how they [Identity Christianity] might still hold to the now basically discredited belief in the color=race idea. But I suppose the same thing could be said about creationists, with the exception that there's no real way to disprove that conclusively, even if the standard version is basically discredited. And I do have some sympathy with them.
I honestly can't understand how anyone who believes they are smart, could possibly say in this context that the "standard version" of Creationism is "basically discredited". It's a faith based religious belief, you can no more discredit it than you can discredit my belief Frosties are awesome.

And by implication, if the non-standard version is meant to be Intelligent Design, the unfortunate side effect of a belief being reframed as as a scientific hypothesis, is that it is absolutely disproveable, and therefore it can be discredited.

This guy is stupidity personified. It isn't an accident he was the very first person to start whining about me in that forum. I'm not the sort of idiot who stands idly by in the presence of stupidity, not when it is masquerading as Wikipedia criticism.

No wonder Wikipediocracy is in the state it is in. Fight the stupid.

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Re: John Carter

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:32 pm

Just so you know there was no misunderstanding, he has made of clear this is what he thinks.....
I guess I should specificy that I meant to say that creationism has been, at least in regards to the classic Biblical "seven days of creation" version, more or less discounted and at least somewhat discredited by modern academia, more or less like the color=race idea, and i wasn't trying to equate racism and creationism beyond indicating that they were both broadly discredited today. And creationism can include other variations harder to discredit than the 7 days version, while that form of racism can't with the same degree of ease.
Who the fuck in "academia" has devoted a second to "discrediting" the Book of Genesis? The stupid, it burns.

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AndrewForson
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Re: John Carter

Post by AndrewForson » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:27 pm

But this sort of debate does capture the thoroughly second-rate mentality of the Wikipedian. Although quite incapable of the rather complicated thinking behind such topics as epigenetics, they can latch onto simplistic formulations such as "Science has proved evolution" or "Science has disproved the bible" (formulae you are unlikely to hear from a first-rate practising scientist) and use these slogans as an excuse to bully people with an actual appreciation of the scientific and philosophical issues.

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Re: John Carter

Post by CrowsNest » Tue May 01, 2018 9:30 am

John Carter wrote:Google shows the existence of an Encyclopedia of World War II edited by Spencer Tucker, with others by Alan Axelrod and John Keegan, a Complete Encyclopedia of World War II, a Historical Encyclopedia of World War II, an Oxford Companion to World War II, all rather quickly. I think it should be possible for someone to consult them and the others that no doubt exist, look at the reviews for comparatice purposes, and be able to come up with some sort of less than official essay or guideline which might be able to provide a broad view of relative importance of Nazi atrocities and weirdness dor wikipedia articles in general and maybe a few indicators as to what circumstances might prompt maybe a separate pargraph or section on unpopular or negative aspects of the regime.
:lol:

Translation: Wikipedia can be better by taking editorial lessons from other encyclopedias.

What a genius. The world is lucky to have a place where such brilliant insight is available.

And as banal as this observation is, it of course misses the obvious issue, one that is immediately obvious to serious and knowledgeable Wikipedia critics - the Wikipediots simply would not go along with it. Any essays or guidelines which have at their heart a belief that the magic sauce of consensus isn't enough to achieve perfection in the arena of editorial decision-making, will never be allowed.

It also assumes the Wikipediots are willing to put serious amounts of time and effort into research based essays or guidelines to improve Wikipedia. This is obviously an erroneous assumption - Wikipedia essays are merely the personal thoughts of individuals, and guidelines are nothing more than a coda of what they tend to do as a collective. Neither type of Wikipedia document has any assumption of correctness about them, outside of the Wikipediot idea of correctness - which is, of course, consensus.

If it were remotely possible for Wikipediots to grok that they are rank amateurs at the encyclopedia writing game, and therefore it would be in their best interests to have a guideline which actually guides them as to how professional outfits do it, then the magic sauce of consensus would have already magiced such documents into existence.

Wikipediots frankly don't give a flying fuck how the professionals do it. They actually think they're better at it than the experts, their model being wholly depreciated by the populist appeal of their free junk pile. This arrogant belief is what drives their sick cult. This is why their grubby little hands seize any tiny little study which somehow shows they're better than a proper encyclopedia, happily overlooking the problems of adequate comparison such studies usually contain.

Probably the saddest thing about this comment, is that it fails to recognise that the proposed essays and guidelines would simply be topic specific interpretations of the high level documents they already have which deal with the editorial issue of space allocation. Namely the policy WP:NPOV and guideline WP:NOTE. Of course, what serious and knowledgeable critics appreciate, is how and why the Wikipediots always fail to properly appreciate (or happily ignore) the meaning of these high level documents, and therefore always fail to put their guidance into practice.

See this Zoloft, this is what you've done for the critic movement. This is why people are ignoring your site, because it looks like nothing more than a safe space for absolute fuckwits, most of whom are active Wikipediots or exiled Wikipediots. No serious or knowledgeable critic needs or wants to hear the thoughts of morons like this, except other Wikipediots of course, let alone be ignored by them when they point out the obvious flaws in their reasoning.

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Re: John Carter

Post by Graaf Statler » Tue May 01, 2018 10:00 am

Let me point out the problem. Of course you are right, of course that swarm intelligence theory is nonsens, for instance to understand the second world war you need to know the European history and that group of autistic gamers what is there swarm don't. Everybody knows there is now free internet, it's absolute clear you need to respect local legalisation, etc, etc, etc. That is not the point. A child understands that. The probelm is what I call the Hotel California effect. You can't fix Wikipedia. At the moment you start to fix Wikipedia it collaps, and that is what they don't want because they made Wikipedia there profession, or a part of there profession.

And that is the choice. It is black or white, and the reason they mute critics in the hope nobody hears them. O, if there was a possibility to fix Wikipedia they would listen to you and me. Of course. But there isn't!
Fixing Wikipedia= destroying Wikipedia. So, they go on and on driving full speed into a dead end with a concrete wall at the end shouting fact checkerssss! fackt checkerssss! We are the norm for 2030!
In fact it's a drama, but for me it is a complete deja vu. Because I have seen from close by the same with Greece because I was a participant on Varoufakis his blog for 2011 on. It was the same situation with Greece, the drama, the crash was build in with there lying about economic data.

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