Jimmy Wales vs. Cullen328

[Kumioko]

I agree with many of the comments here. RANDOM PERSON is a worthless admin and is a good example of the sort of toxic personality that become admins and then use the tools as a ban hammer to enforce their own POV.

Seriously dude, I could write a bot that imitates your generic waffling, and nobody would notice the difference.

Have you anything specific to say about Cullen that might help inform readers as to why he's not "one of their best"? Ideally something's not related to your personal tale of woe.

If not, then I think all this good stuff is best saved for its usual outlet, Wikipediocracy. You might be lucky and attract the guy there, he would fit right in.

Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the nest.

[CrowsNest]

"I'm not a mind reader".

He's not much of a reader, full stop.

I have commented from time to time on Jimbo's talk page over the years but I certainly don't think that I have a record of disruptive behavior there. For years, I always assumed the best of Jimbo and did not like the obsessives who harassed him. I still don't. I did get upset about how Jimbo and the WMF board treated James Heilman in 2015 and shortly thereafter, I wrote a critical essay about the ill-fated appointment of Arnnon Geshuri to the WMF board, which seems to have had some effect. So, when I summarized User:Michael Hardy's behavior succinctly as "pursuing a crank agenda", Jimbo blew his stack and tried to ban me from his talk page. Of course, untold thousands of words were expended analyzing Hardy's behavior in the weeks that followed, he was indefinitely blocked for it, and a very lengthy debate and negotiation took place before he was finally unblocked. Now, I am not a mind-reader but it seems to me that his explosive reaction to my four word assessment of Hardy's behavior was at least partially because of my criticisms of WMF screw-ups back in 2015. Also because Hardy has been an administrator since 2002 when this project was Jimbo's little club. To Jimbo's credit, he relented a while later and left a nice message for me, and did not object when I indefinitely blocked his neo-Confederate pal, User: Wikid77. So, I hold no grudge against Jimbo, but on the other hand, I do not think he should be editing BLPs based on social connections or social media lobbying. His input regarding Mark Dice has been highly counterproductive, and his dismissive tone toward TonyBallioni is really out of line. If I was running things, Jimbo would lose his WMF board seat for life, and would have to run for re-election like everyone else, and should have to undergo a reconfirmation RFA. But that's just me. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:57, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Imagine if he had the balls to say this crap in a venue where Jimmy could see it and comment on or correct it as he saw fit? Given his past record, there's plenty in there that might simp!y be straight up factually incorrect.

[CrowsNest]

"One of their best" Jim thinks a 31 hour block of Mjolnirpants will transform him into someone who isn't prone to emotional instability and a warped sense of self-justification for the grossest breaches of decorum.

He thinks this, despite there being a veritable pile of evidence that shows that if he was capable of change, he would have by now. The sad truth is, MP is one of the many people that Wikipedia attracts who are frankly incapable of change, but who nonetheless have the capacity to fit in for long enough to become a Vested Contributor. These people can be blocked, but it is only ever for a short time and in this wholly ineffective 'I so regretting having to block you and I really wish you could be a nicer person' fashion, and only ever for the grossest of breaches at that, as was the case here.

The real problem here, is that Jim is trying to reform someone who has spent many hours cultivating a relationship with Queen Bishonen, accepting and living by her code, unaware, as her coterie always are, that it is her policy to only offer limited assistance to those members of her court who really screw up, as has been the case here (per the Code, she helpfully pointed out that the person MP insulted looks like a sock, as if somehow that made it less of an offence, but has otherwise not intervened).

The moment Jim decided to accept all the toxic scum's plaudits for standing up to Jimmy Wales, decided to accept the support of people like Bishonen in that sad little rebellion, he lost all moral authority to be seen as the one to try to enforce Jimmy's central idea that there should be no exceptions to the general principle that asshole editors should be shown the door regardless of their contributions if they simply refuse to reform.

The proper block here was Indefinite, as MP's reaction to the pathetically short block has shown. An Indefinite block is the only way to commit a recidivist editor like MP to a promise not to repeat his toxic behaviour, on the understanding that there will be no more second chances.

It would be a brave Administrator who Indefinitely blocks a Ward of Bishonen, putting them on the brink of a community ban. As in nature, the Queen reserves that right to herself, never being afraid of smothering members of her own brood of they have become more trouble than they are worth, for the good of perpetuating her gene pool.

For his rank hypocrisy and ineffective fumblings with the block button, despite the many warm words and rabble rousing of the crowd, when it matters, Jim carries no authority with anyone in the community for his decision making, neither those who believe in the behavioural policies and wish they were enforced properly and equally, or those whose thinking is closer to that of Bishonen.

Hence why he is seemingly trying to supplant Jimmy Wales and go it alone. Hence why there is now a split between the two camps over what to do once his pathetic block expires, a situation that would not have arisen had he properly implemented policy (no short term slap on the wrist blocks for long term problem users), or properly channelled the true will of Bishonen and let is slide.

Jim, maybe you just need to leave the Administration to those with the necessary backbone and integrity? I see no future in this endeavour for you, except perhaps a heart attack brought on by stress. It's a lonely job, being the Leader.

Breaking: Now blocked for 60 hours by Brown Haired Girl for his abusive unblock request. Guaranteed to split the crowd again, since half the community thinks flipping the bird to the blocking admin is tolerable venting, the other half seeing it as proof the block was warranted (but again, if you thought that, why apply a short, time limited block?)

Jim has definitively started a shit storm now, exactly as MP arrogantly and editor dismissively predicted he had following the 31 hour block. Proof that you cannot effectively enforce the law, if nobody really respects your authority. And yet were we not told during the Jimmy standoff, that Jim is one of the most respected Wikipedia Administrators there is? Pah. If he is, then that doesn't say much for the cadre as a whole.

[CrowsNest]

Unsurprisingly, Cullen's pathetic block merely set the scene for what has become a spectacular example of Suicide by Administrator, which is, of course, the chosen path of quite a few of these people who are simply incapable of change. Even so, no surprise that MP had to go one better and force oversight of child molestation accusations.

But hey, maybe we were too harsh, maybe Cullen did see some evidence MP was capable of change. He did, after all, downgrade his edit notice from this...

http://archive.is/9myUL

....to this....

http://archive.is/OFnI4

ONE OF THEIR BEST.

[CrowsNest]

Come on everyone, where's the rebellion?

The Wikipedia model that Jimbo helped create absolutely depends on the ability of readers to click "edit" at any time, and have access to the full range of editing options. The Wikipedia model rejects the notion of passive readers and must always constantly invite readers to become editors. If there was some insurmountable obstacle that prevented mobile uses from editing fully and normally, then we could debate that. But that notion is a complete and utter falsehood. The only obstacle to mobile editing that exists is the stubborn refusal of WMF leaders to recognize that the so-called "desktop site" works perfectly fine on the vast majority of contemporary mobile devices. Denying reality, the WMF leadership directs countless millions of mobile users to inferior mobile sites and inferior mobile apps that impede easy editing of the encyclopedia. And the reading experience is inferior on these mobile sites and apps as well. What a sad catastrophe! Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:47, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

While I neither agree with nor condone Cullen328's harsh tone here, I too find the mobile interface frustrating.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:57, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Jimmy has accused Cullen of using a harsh tone. HOW DARE HE. Cullen is one of the softest spoken Administrators you know, he isn't even capable of having bad thought, let alone expressing it in his keyboard voice, this is a gross personal attack, comment on his content not his character, blah blah blah.

ATTACK THE KING NOW, WHILE HE IS WEAK, AND YOU ARE STRONG.

No? Really? Not minded to repeat the previous farce? A bit puzzled as to why Cullen seems to be licking the King's ring after you risked it all to rally to his defence? Waiting to see what the Red Queen Bishonen does first? Washing your hair tonight? Washing Bishonen's hair maybe? Drmies' poor long suffering wife.

.........

Yeah, I fucking thought so.

This is why you lot get so much shit, all the time. It will never end, for any of you.

HTD

[Carrite]

Come on everyone, where's the rebellion?

The Wikipedia model that Jimbo helped create absolutely depends on the ability of readers to click "edit" at any time, and have access to the full range of editing options. The Wikipedia model rejects the notion of passive readers and must always constantly invite readers to become editors. If there was some insurmountable obstacle that prevented mobile uses from editing fully and normally, then we could debate that. But that notion is a complete and utter falsehood. The only obstacle to mobile editing that exists is the stubborn refusal of WMF leaders to recognize that the so-called "desktop site" works perfectly fine on the vast majority of contemporary mobile devices. Denying reality, the WMF leadership directs countless millions of mobile users to inferior mobile sites and inferior mobile apps that impede easy editing of the encyclopedia. And the reading experience is inferior on these mobile sites and apps as well. What a sad catastrophe! Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:47, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

While I neither agree with nor condone Cullen328's harsh tone here, I too find the mobile interface frustrating.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:57, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Jimmy has accused Cullen of using a harsh tone. HOW DARE HE. Cullen is one of the softest spoken Administrators you know, he isn't even capable of having bad thought, let alone expressing it in his keyboard voice, this is a gross personal attack, comment on his content not his character, blah blah blah.

ATTACK THE KING NOW, WHILE HE IS WEAK, AND YOU ARE STRONG.

No? Really? Not minded to repeat the previous farce? A bit puzzled as to why Cullen seems to be licking the King's ring after you risked it all to rally to his defence? Waiting to see what the Red Queen Bishonen does first? Washing your hair tonight? Washing Bishonen's hair maybe? Drmies' poor long suffering wife.

.........

Yeah, I fucking thought so.

This is why you lot get so much shit, all the time. It will never end, for any of you.

HTD

Jimmy Wales has as thin a skin as Donald Trump, especially when someone calls out his WMF puppets for incompetence.

Jim H. is okay. He makes mistakes — has made several big ones in the past year — but assuming good faith with him is a rational play. He knows which way the wind blows.

RfB

P.S. I wish Jim H. would turn in his tools. I don't like him as an administrator.

[CrowsNest]

Loving what 'one of their best' old white straight dude Administrators revealed here.

Bottom line: SMcCandish posted a very offensive "humor" essay at the Signpost, mocking transgender advocates of innovative pronouns. Entirely predictably, many editors expressed outrage and a smaller but significant number expressed support. SMcCandish proceeded to bludgeon every discussion about the controversy, repeating the same arguments over and over and over again. Fæ emerged as the most incisive critic of SMcCandish's stick-wielding behavior. Now, SMcCandish wants to silence their most effective critic. The funny thing is that I agree with SMcCandish about the pronoun issue, but I completely disagree with every single aspect of their bullying tactics in this bizarre episode. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:49, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

1. Is a "transgender activist" a transgender person engaging in activism, or an activist for transgender issues? The latter, obviously, but Jim's usage here gives you pause. Such a sloppy way to use language in a dispute all about activism around language.

2. Why even state which side you are rooting for? It should be irrelevant. We shouldn't be able to tell, much less care. Does he want credit from Fae for having his back even though he disagrees with his view of pronouns? Has he perhaps presumed Fae even has a position, simply because he has posted criticism of someone using WMF servers to use offensive humor to "marginalize and disparage transgender, nonbinary or genderqueer readers and Wikipedians." and "deride the respectful use of personal pronouns"? Seems like a legitimate complaint that is far removed from any thought he simply dislikes the essay and criticised its author just because it goes against their specific view on the Wikipedia usage of specific pronouns nouns, which is what the essay targets.

3. Just what were the significant minority showing their support for? Mockery of transgender activists (or activists for transgender issues)? The 'stick-wielding"? The repetition? The bullying? The use of very offensive humor? Or just all of it? Again, such a careless and inflammatory use of language.

4. Why even say something as loaded as "Entirely predictably, many editors expressed outrage", as if this was a giant snowflake uprising that is just so passe to the likes of wise old Jim, when there is indeed nothing to be surprised about when the majority are angered by "very offensive" humor, if that is what it is. Which it is, it being a clear case of seeking to laugh at those who dare to advocate for one position over the other, when both have their merits, depending on where your priorities lie.

5. Can we expect any actual Administrative action from Jim having stated the "bottom line" and evidently realised one of these parties is trying to silence a critic of their very offensive humor with disruptive and bullying tactics? Or is this one of those times when we're meant to believe the strong disappointment of someone who so often appears to see their role as a parental figure come to separate squabbling children, is enough. SMc is an adult, so they should be treated accordingly. If experience and warnings aren't stopping their behaviour, if they are setting out to deliberately cause offense or failing to properly read the room, you don't express your deep dissappointment, you either slap a formal prohibition on them (no free speech), or you use reasonable force to prevent a reoccurrance unless or until they wise up and commit to ceasing their own disruptive form of activism.

Maybe one day Wikipedia will wake up to the idea that old white straight dudes are not really the people you want Administrating conflicts likes this. You want a grumpy dad to play amateur referee of a sporting contest, you call Jim. You want careful but effective deescalation of a conflict prone to emotion and miscommunication, you call anyone but Jim.

And in a similar vein to their fondness for "give them enough rope", it is high time they stopped using phrases like "bludgeoning" and "stick-wielding" in an area of controversy where the literal acts have historically been used to silence dissent. Still, that rather requires a grown up view of what is likely to actually cause offence or otherwise simply inflame a dispute the Administrators are theoretically meant to be trying to defuse.

[Graaf Statler]

Let's assume that Jimbo is behaving rationally in accordance with some kind of plan to achieve some kind of objective. As figurehead of Wikipedia he gets lucrative speaking appointments, luxury foreign travel, honours and awards, basically for doing nothing; and people offer him large sums of money for his various ill-thought-out and ill-fated ventures. As chair of the Board of Trustees he gets to influence the WMF spending of $100M a year, and as member of the Endowment Board he gets to influence the accumulation and use of another $100M capital. The price he pays is to occasionally play a few rounds with some of the more stupid players of an MMORPG. Why on earth should he care whether he wins or loses some chicken-feed fight? It means nothing to him. Crazy like a fox.

^ Sum total of Jimbos life.

All true. And jimmy did a lot of extreem stupide things in his life, but he is the first one to admire that himself. But who of us didn't do that in his or her life? Extreem stupide things? Didn't Jim Morrison do stupide things? Or didn't Amy Winehouse do? And they are still admired! Why to blame constante Jimmy for stupid things most of us have done in the past too? Who is without sin cast the first stone, but most times those stone casters are extreem boring people.

I agree with Oscar, the main character in Die Blechtrommel, a book written by Günter Grass. Oscar is claiming several times in the book that Innocence is always growing again. You can't blame people all there life for the stupid things they have done in the past and I really wonder if it wat was so stupid to be photographed in a speedboat with that two beautiful chicks. I had done exaxte the same if I had had the change and I am still wondering why that is such a huge scandal because iboth the two lady's and Jimmy had a good time. This all said, it is time to stop the Jimmy bashing in general and blame only him for the complete chaos Wikipedia is today.
And I keep on saying, Jimmy has voted against that Belgium Chapter bullshit of Romaine and friends as a board member, so it is very wrong to blame only him. And WMF has kicked him years ago out of the board. So, lets close the Jimmy reality gap.

Without declaring Jimmy holy, I consider this as a hopefully posting. Because it contains this: I found it less than completely factual and not helpful., I don't think what you are doing is the right approach and will result of the opposite result from what you are seeking, and last but not least: There is an ongoing discussion.

[CrowsNest]

Jimmy pushes back against the more ridiculous acts of the Wikipedians when it affects the real life reputation of Wikipedia quite a lot. Sadly he does this all on his own.

The post by Dysk nails it, I don't think Jimmy cares even a tenth as much about most of this stuff than compared to the hard core loony tunes Wikipediots, otherwise he'd have not given up his ability to directly affect things.

I think he just needs to be seen to be saying the right things, so as to get the benefits of still being on the board, and he can let someone else deal with the fact he gets ignored and the Wikipedians basically took over the asylum.

If he can get someone like Cullen to roll over and apologise by publicly pulling them up, he'll take it, but he didn't go out of his way to force "one of their best" to sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.

[Graaf Statler]

Jimmy pushes back against the more ridiculous acts of the Wikipedians when it affects the real life reputation of Wikipedia quite a lot. Sadly he does this all on his own.

I have seen often that Jimmy is on his own, tries to defend himself and that they start to laugh about him and make the fool out of him. They are twisting his words, using his private life and his business failures against him, what has nothing to do with the situation n wikipedia as it is.
And a while ago Jimmy said I have screwed a lot of things up, but wikipedia I want to make to a success. Well, it seems clear to me if they keep there wiki-Titanic on this course that is not going to happen, now. I don't think there is even the siltiest change the will reach there goals in 2030.
Because there wiki-Titanic is havey damaged and the only thing what is still in function is the orkestra.

And we where talking about Doc James Crow. Well, I spend yesterday time to read his user page, to do a bit reachears. To his hospital,I have wached a few video's of him, and my impression is still very positive about him.
From my own experience I can say, yes this is the type of doctors and also type of nurses you find on a ER department. They handle. They are cool whatever happens, jump on a motorcycle and drive 100 miles a hou to you if necessary of navigate a helicopter and do what they have to do to safe your life. They are not the standard doctors and nurses. It doesn't't wonder me at all you find him in marathons, he is the type of a ER doctor.

But, if these people are constant misinformed you can't blame them for losing track. How can they know the Pirate Party is one of the many joke political party's what are most times are founded when a few people where stoned drunk or stoned? How can they know all these strange rules in Europe every idiot can base his own law firm and say he is a lawyer (jurist) if he is a greengrocer? How can they know the European parlement is a complete fake parlement (Een feestcommisie op zoek naar een feest according to our prime minster) where the European country's are still trying to win the seconde world war? Because that is what it is, and that is absolute progress. No Battle of the Bulge anymore, the Battle of Britain is now between two lady's, madam Merkel and madam May, and I have to say a lot more civilised, the Berlin wall has fallen without one drop of blood, so it isn't a bad idea as it looks, the EU.

But than we have my dear troll frends Romania and Mdd, the compass what will guide the Wikipedia Titanic in safe waters.

Mayday, mayday, mayday. Safe your internet! Call your MEP! It is a emery situate, We travel with our chapter to Brussels to found our "Brussels Advocating Group" with the famous political scientist Dimi. over.

Hu?

*Wkimedia=>Romaine and Mdd: Safe your copyright! The internet is in danger because of article 13.
*Statler: Sorry, but it is not about copyright, copyright is a national matter from 1912 on.
*Romaine, Mdd and the rest of the (gender) puddingheads: James, James Apuddinheader, WMF, SanFanBan that troll.
*HA, thinks Drmies, De kolonel and the other trolls who have made wiki-trolling to a form of art, troll time!

And that is the only compass Doc James and Jimmy have! Of course Jimmy understood something was wrong, that is the reason he voted agains that Brussel chapter, but not what! But now he does, and Doc James too.